What is objectionable about "grinding"?

[BaseballCoach]

There seems to be a popular prejudice on these boards against "grinding". Perhaps the reason I don't share this ultra-negative view is that we don't all agree on the definition of "grinding".

So I invite discussion about what is "grinding" and why should it be avoided?

Click to read more...

 

[OldCraig71]

I always thought that grinding in hockey terms at least was a term used to describe the way that marginal/no talent players go out on the ice and hug each other in the corners and eat the clock and score a goal once every blue moon. See Habs 2015-16 edition.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

Grinding is not very entertaining and it doesn't require much skill to execute. It is simply a boring way to play hockey, and as all spectator sports are just entertainment in the end, being boring is a bad thing.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Boring to watch

Exhausts players

Doesn't encourage passing, playmaking or skill. (Also it's boring to watch)

We don't have the forwards for it

Successful grinding rarely allows for clean shots on net

Neutralizes any puck skill the D might have, makes for an ineffective transition game

It's boring to watch

 

[BLONG7]

Boring to watch

Exhausts players

Doesn't encourage passing, playmaking or skill. (Also it's boring to watch)

We don't have the forwards for it

Successful grinding rarely allows for clean shots on net

Neutralizes any puck skill the D might have, makes for an ineffective transition game

It's boring to watch

This is bang on............MT has used grinding to take the good out of his team, and their fans...what a clown.

For the past 3 seasons, we have played a terrible brand of hockey...

 

[JLP]

Grinding has a place. Last night a Rangers 4th liner I think was interviewed between periods, he said something like "My line's job is to go out there and grind, look for those dirty goals..."

But regarding moronic M. Therrien, "grind" seems to be his philosophy for the entire lineup.

Plus: guys like Byron + Grind does not add up. Our team is not built for physical play. Now we've grinded ourselves out of the playoffs and we're wrecked by injuries -- what's that suggest?

 

[kassian]

This team just isn't built to play a grinding game.

FFS we've Plekanec, Desharnais and rarely Chucky playing as the top two centers. Soft players who aren't meant for griding. No one on this squad is consistent at playing physical, going into the corners. Gallagher is one of the few who does it constantly but even he's 5'8''!

What we have though is skill. Playmakers, good stick handlers. But this coach doesn't exploin those abilities at all. All he asks for is senseless dumps from the defensive zone (look at the lack of an effective breakout) and chip 'n chase hockey in the offensive zone. It doesn't make any sense at all! The lack of scoring chances and the general putridness of the attack proves that perfectly.

 

[BLONG7]

This team just isn't built to play a grinding game.

FFS we've Plekanec, Desharnais and rarely Chucky playing as the top two centers. Soft players who aren't meant for griding. No one on this squad is consistent at playing physical, going into the corners. Gallagher is one of the few who does it constantly but even he's 5'8''!

What we have though is skill. Playmakers, good stick handlers. But this coach doesn't exploin those abilities at all. All he asks for is senseless dumps from the defensive zone (look at the lack of an effective breakout) and chip 'n chase hockey in the offensive zone. It doesn't make any sense at all! The lack of scoring chances and the general putridness of the attack proves that perfectly.

Makes ya wonder if our GM and his cronies even watch da games...

 

[groovejuice]

This team just isn't built to play a grinding game.

FFS we've Plekanec, Desharnais and rarely Chucky playing as the top two centers. Soft players who aren't meant for griding. No one on this squad is consistent at playing physical, going into the corners. Gallagher is one of the few who does it constantly but even he's 5'8''!

What we have though is skill. Playmakers, good stick handlers. But this coach doesn't exploin those abilities at all. All he asks for is senseless dumps from the defensive zone (look at the lack of an effective breakout) and chip 'n chase hockey in the offensive zone. It doesn't make any sense at all! The lack of scoring chances and the general putridness of the attack proves that perfectly.

Of course grinding has a place in strategy. By never when it erases skill. This is self evident and a testimony to the incompetence and singlemindedness of our ridiculous coach.

 

[CanadienShark]

Because we don't have a team built for that.

 

[Uncle Gary]

First of the grinding system Therrien forces upon us is terrible compared to real grinding system like in LA. Second of all look at LA's roster compared to ours. That is the kind of team you use a grinding system with.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

First of the grinding system Therrien forces upon us is terrible compared to real grinding system like in LA. Second of all look at LA's roster compared to ours. That is the kind of team you use a grinding system with.

Definitely good points. The way our team is built, there are just way too many differences in strengths/weaknesses from line to line to use a "cookie cutter" approach that leaves them unprepared to "skill their way out of" a tough spot against another hard-working opponent (see: playoffs).

 

[Habs13]

Grinding with midgets is futility. Grinding with guys like Lucic, Horton, Thornton et cie is how that style works. Look at the St.Louis Blues; that is a team that should play a grinding style.

 

[Seb]

It's not entertaining

 

[Andy]

There's nothing wrong with grinding. There is something wrong with only grinding.

The latter is the problem.

 

[Mad Brills*]

https://streamable.com/uyjm

 

[Miller Time]

The problem is that people assume that bc he's a head coach, "grind em" must actually have sound systematic principles.

It doesn't, as evidenced by both the on ice lack of cohesion and the behind the scenes glimpses of player/coach communication and "instruction".


There is no "grinding" system, all approaches to the game that involve strategy incorporate some form of wearing the opposition down either physically or emotionally.

A real coach balances btw installing & perfecting a certain philosophical approach to controlling the play with adjusting to the strengths/weaknesses of the roster at his disposal. There is a necessary fluidity & adjustment factor while sticking to high level philosophical tenets about the most effective way to succeed that great coaches navigate better than the rest.

Therrien's approach lacks any of this. He's about as superficial a sport mind as you can find. A guy with a good work ethic, charisma, and who lucked into being at the right place in the right time. That he lacks any real skill in the art of coaching is beyond apparent.

"But he's coached 750 NHL games"...

As a wise person I know once said, some people have 25 years of experience, others have 25 X 1 year of experience. Therrien exemplified the latter.


Personally, I'd love to see the Habs play a physically imposing style of game. But that starts with discipline & character (both elements this management team has shown no understanding of how to cultivate) & then requires systematic roster adjustments to assemble individuals capable of playing that style.

You don't extend guys like Desharnais, sign UFA's like briere/flash/semin/Gilbert/sekac or trade for guys like Ryder/gonchar/pap/vanek if that's the style of game you want to build around. (Anyone one of those isn't an issue, it's the collective accumulation of moves that all reflect a lack of cohesive decision-making)

We have a small, speedy roster, with a D that has above average mobility & puck skills and an all world goalie... The roster is built for a run & gun/puck possession based approach, yet the coach has no clue how to build the necessary attention to detail & responsibility necessary to succeed that way.


OP is wrong to assume the issue is with "grinding" or with approach in general... The issue is that our leadership lacks the competence or conviction to actually build any consistent system or style. The Habs don't have any real system, nor any consistency of personnel...

 

[phoque taupe]

Grinding is a page in the hockey playbook

Unfortunately, it is the only page in MT's playbook

 

[BaseballCoach]

https://streamable.com/uyjm

Honestly, probably 28 out of 30 NHL coaches give that speech.

"Don't force plays" is simply good advice! It's another way of saying "read and react".

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Grinding is for grinders. You can't forced all players to play that game. Lots of waste energy and kills the talent part of the game.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Grinding is for grinders. You can't forced all players to play that game. Lots of waste energy and kills the talent part of the game.

Agreed that skill is important, but what I don't get is the use of the word "grinding" as an obvious insult. Grinding as a bad thing is probably news to virtually all of the 30 NHL coaches.

Grinding involves going to dirty areas. The great majority of goals today are scored from within 15 feet of the net.

No successful team, even one with talented players, will win without the willingness to work hard, battle for the puck and go to dirty areas.

See Washington the past few years pre-Barry Trotz, and Pittsburgh since they let go the grinders that helped them win in 2009.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Grinding with freaking skill players

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

The problem is not grinding, it that we put grinding over skills and we have a midget team.

 

[CanadienShark]

https://streamable.com/uyjm

I love Subban's chuckle at the end. Hopefully he's laughing at Therrien too.

 

[BaseballCoach]

​

The problem is not grinding, it that we put grinding over skills and we have a midget team.

Grinding is a skill too.

For example, the skill at winning board battles to get the puck out of your zone not only reduces goals against, but also can create additional offence compared to when skill-less players lose their board battles.