What if WBS D outplays Pens D?

[Tender Rip]

While that's a nice thought... when has Shero shown any willingness to move roster players? He moved Staal because he didn't have a choice. Otherwhse... what... Hossa/Neal trades? That was a while ago.

Again, what Shero has been doing in the past shouldn't really define what he is going to do in a situation that he/we haven't seen before.
Not saying it couldn't, but it would be more than a little stupid.

Shero has drafted lots of D. That D is here now. He will have to make decisions as there are too many of them even for daily roster decisions.
Even if we were to send Despres down along with Dumoulin and Samuelsson when everyone is back, there'd still be 8 D-men on the active roster, because sending Maatta anywhere would just be bizarre at this point, never mind the UFA year consideration.
Even Despres, if I am not mistaken, can play only 5 more games before he has to go through waivers if sent down, so if that is happening, it is going to happen relatively soon.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

What the hell does Niskanen have to do to get some respect around here?

This guy isn't old and he plays both ends of the ice very well.

Why does everyone want him gone?

Quoted for truth. I can do nothing but laugh at Nisky getting trashed whatsoever this season. You could make the argument that he's been our best defensemen (okay, well besides PM PM).

Anyway, yeah, Despres should stick after things sort themselves out at least. I want to try Orpik back in the line-up through the stretch over Bort and Dumo, but I'm quick to make the switch. I'm also open to trading Bort at the deadline because A) he's proven that he is a legit NHL defensemen B) he deserves to be playing and I'd like to see him on another team if he can't make this one.

Bort for Zucker.

 

[Tender Rip]

Quote for truth. I can do nothing but laugh at Nisky getting trashed whatsoever this season. You could make the argument that he's been our best defensemen (okay, well besides PM PM).

I think only blind people would question that Niskanen has had a great season so far. More so, his performances have been particularly excellent when placed in high responsibility situations with a for him suitable D-partner.... ie. he has been great with Scuderi and Maatta. With others... less spectacular but still OK.

There is a lesson in that somewhere.

Having said that.... it doesn't change that he has to be in play trade wise absent someone else being moved first. One doesn't need to be 'thrashing' Niskanen to point that out.

 

[mpp9]

Vokoun is likely to stay on LTIR the rest of the season. Despres, Dumoulin and Samuelsson get sent down. Maatta-Nisky become our third pairing. Bort and Engelland as the #7/8.

They don't need to move anybody. But it'd be wise to leverage our depth on defense for longterm solutions up front.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Vokoun is likely to stay on LTIR the rest of the season. Despres, Dumoulin and Samuelsson get sent down. Maatta-Nisky become our third pairing. Bort and Engelland as the #7/8.

They don't need to move anybody. But it'd be wise to leverage our depth on defense for longterm solutions up front.

It would also be wise to play Simon Despres, because he's one of our 6 best d-men.

 

[WayneSid9987]

It would also be wise to play Simon Despres, because he's one of our 6 best d-men.

I totally agree with this.
It's too bad Nisky is a right hander that is a lock for PP1(if DB demotes Letang again) or PP2.

While it's nice to have that right hander, Nisky on any pairing in the playoffs, i'm not so comfortable with. Just seems he can't reach that next level when the games really count.

I dunno. Maybe with the new systems and J.Martin, Nisky can thrive in that role more than in the past. I guess thats what i'm hoping for cuz i don't see him being dealt and i don't see him being healthy scratched.

 

[wgknestrick]

I totally agree with this.
It's too bad Nisky is a right hander that is a lock for PP1(if DB demotes Letang again) or PP2.

While it's nice to have that right hander, Nisky on any pairing in the playoffs, i'm not so comfortable with. Just seems he can't reach that next level when the games really count.

I dunno. Maybe with the new systems and J.Martin, Nisky can thrive in that role more than in the past. I guess thats what i'm hoping for cuz i don't see him being dealt and i don't see him being healthy scratched.

Yeah, I'd be worried too playing the league leader in +- in the playoffs. Seriously, just stop posting stuff like this.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I totally agree with this.
It's too bad Nisky is a right hander that is a lock for PP1(if DB demotes Letang again) or PP2.

While it's nice to have that right hander, Nisky on any pairing in the playoffs, i'm not so comfortable with. Just seems he can't reach that next level when the games really count.

I dunno. Maybe with the new systems and J.Martin, Nisky can thrive in that role more than in the past. I guess thats what i'm hoping for cuz i don't see him being dealt and i don't see him being healthy scratched.

I would sit Orpik/trade, not Niskanen. Keep Niskanen on the right side with Despres, Scuderi or Maatta and I expect him to do well. A Despres - Niskanen 3rd pairing would be awesome.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

While that's a nice thought... when has Shero shown any willingness to move roster players? He moved Staal because he didn't have a choice. Otherwhse... what... Hossa/Neal trades? That was a while ago.

Even in the Neal trade he had to get Gogo's replacement in the deal.

Shero get's attached to players and it really hurts the team. There was no reason to get 4 guys last TDL and not send a few out. It led to DB having too many options and guys getting pissy over lost PT.

Do you think SJ would have done a TK/Murray swap? That would have saves them a 2nd rounder this year.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Despres and Maatta both play on the left side. Some guys can make that change without a problem, others can't.

Then move Oprik and play Des w/ Martin and keep Olli-Nisky.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Yeah, I'd be worried too playing the league leader in +- in the playoffs. Seriously, just stop posting stuff like this.

Awesome point!

Jeff Schultz once led the league in +/- and he's amazing!

 

[Ogrezilla]

Then move Oprik and play Des w/ Martin and keep Olli-Nisky.

that's exactly what I want. Well, Des and Olli are interchangeable for me at that point, but move Orpik and keep Nisky on the 3rd pair.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

I will say that the WBS-D is more exciting to watch .

Better? I don't think so. Frequent mistakes, often out of position, odd man rushes, etc. They are making up for errors with luck and energy. Not a great formula for the playoffs. To be fair though, they need more experience. I do agree that it is time to seriously consider replacing the veterans.

As for Niskanen...
I still have bad memories of him from last years playoffs. Beyond that, this year, he's playing lights out. I'd consider putting him on the 1st PP unit instead of Letang. I also agree this may be the perfect time to trade him. We are clearly saturated on D. The best way to alleviate that is to build up a young D and then trade him. You can't keep everybody.

 

[ds246pit]

I will say that the WBS-D is more exciting to watch .

Better? I don't think so. Frequent mistakes, often out of position, odd man rushes, etc. They are making up for errors with luck and energy. Not a great formula for the playoffs. To be fair though, they need more experience. I do agree that it is time to seriously consider replacing the veterans.

As for Niskanen...
I still have bad memories of him from last years playoffs. Beyond that, this year, he's playing lights out. I'd consider putting him on the 1st PP unit instead of Letang. I also agree this may be the perfect time to trade him. We are clearly saturated on D. The best way to alleviate that is to build up a young D and then trade him. You can't keep everybody.

Completely Agree with your first paragraph. I'd be scared to run that many kids in the playoffs. They are running on adrenaline and playing way too many minutes at a high level right now. By the end of the Calgary game they looked gassed.

It has been great seeing the kids give their all but it won't hold up all season and even for as well as Maatta has been playing he won't maintain this pace at this level of minutes for an entire season. Guys like Martin and Scuderi are used to logging 20+ minutes against elite talent and having them back in the long run will be the difference. The kids gained lots of valuable experience and set themselves up to take over eventually but no way should more than 1 or *maybe* 2 rookie dmen should be playing in the postseason. No rookies should be in the top 4.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Completely Agree with your first paragraph. I'd be scared to run that many kids in the playoffs. They are running on adrenaline and playing way too many minutes at a high level right now. By the end of the Calgary game they looked gassed.

It has been great seeing the kids give their all but it won't hold up all season and even for as well as Maatta has been playing he won't maintain this pace at this level of minutes for an entire season. Guys like Martin and Scuderi are used to logging 20+ minutes against elite talent and having them back in the long run will be the difference. The kids gained lots of valuable experience and set themselves up to take over eventually but no way should more than 1 or *maybe* 2 rookie dmen should be playing in the postseason. No rookies should be in the top 4.

I am more confident in what Maatta or Despres can do in the top 4 in the playoffs than Orpik. Especially since Nisky would allow our 3rd pairing to see solid minutes too. Our 4th d-man won't need to play some ridiculous number of minutes because we won't be sheltering the 3rd pairing if its Despres - Niskanen playing behind Scuderi - Letang and Maatta - Martin.

 

[ds246pit]

I am more confident in what Maatta or Despres can do in the top 4 in the playoffs than Orpik. Especially since Nisky would allow our 3rd pairing to see solid minutes too. Our 4th d-man won't need to play some ridiculous number of minutes because we won't be sheltering the 3rd pairing if its Despres - Niskanen playing behind Scuderi - Letang and Maatta - Martin.

The thing is, we say that every year but once the playoffs hit Orpik turns into a different player. He seems to buckle down defensively and makes smart hits. He also has a decent outlet pass and he's a pretty decent skater. He goes into moron mode in the regular season but i trust him in the top 4 come playoffs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The thing is, we say that every year but once the playoffs hit Orpik turns into a different player. He seems to buckle down defensively and makes smart hits. He also has a decent outlet pass and he's a pretty decent skater. He goes into moron mode in the regular season but i trust him in the top 4 come playoffs.

I'd rather get a trade return for him and play Despres. If we never see what Despres can do in the playoffs, will we just be in this situation next year again? We want someone with playoff experience to play in the playoffs, but you need to be given the chance to play in the playoffs to get playoff experience.

 

[ds246pit]

I'd rather get a trade return for him and play Despres.

I'm not saying that is a bad idea or I disagree, but i don't see Shero doing that. I think he's going to stand pat on the defense and keep the kids on the bench. Knowing that i am ok with Orpik being top 4 come postseason.

Also i think alot depends on the return for Orpik. Personally i don't want to see him re-signed next season but i'm wondering if there is any legit market out there for him.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Again, what Shero has been doing in the past shouldn't really define what he is going to do in a situation that he/we haven't seen before.
Not saying it couldn't, but it would be more than a little stupid.

Shero has drafted lots of D. That D is here now. He will have to make decisions as there are too many of them even for daily roster decisions.
Even if we were to send Despres down along with Dumoulin and Samuelsson when everyone is back, there'd still be 8 D-men on the active roster, because sending Maatta anywhere would just be bizarre at this point, never mind the UFA year consideration.
Even Despres, if I am not mistaken, can play only 5 more games before he has to go through waivers if sent down, so if that is happening, it is going to happen relatively soon.

Despres is waiver exempt for one more year or 84 more games, whcihever comes first. Still, we have too many D, so something does need to happen when we are healthy.

 

[ds246pit]

I'd rather get a trade return for him and play Despres. If we never see what Despres can do in the playoffs, will we just be in this situation next year again? We want someone with playoff experience to play in the playoffs, but you need to be given the chance to play in the playoffs to get playoff experience.

I agree with that as well, and thats why i don't think (hopefully) that Orpik will be back next season. I just see Shero standing pat with Orpik for 1 more year.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm not saying that is a bad idea or I disagree, but i don't see Shero doing that. I think he's going to stand pat on the defense and keep the kids on the bench. Knowing that i am ok with Orpik being top 4 come postseason.

Also i think alot depends on the return for Orpik. Personally i don't want to see him re-signed next season but i'm wondering if there is any legit market out there for him.

The value we give Orpik is where we don't see eye to eye. I think we are a better hockey team with Maatta in the top 4 and Despres on the 3rd pairing than we are playing Orpik at all. I think Orpik is our 6th or 7th best defenseman, and 4th best left defenseman. If we somehow had a fully healthy roster and Despres and Orpik are both still here, I'd want to see Orpik watching from the press box. At most, playing on the 3rd pair behind Letang, Martin, Scuds and Maatta.

 

[ds246pit]

The value we give Orpik is where we don't see eye to eye. I think we are a better hockey team with Maatta in the top 4 and Despres on the 3rd pairing than we are playing Orpik at all. I think Orpik is our 6th or 7th best defenseman, and 4th best left defenseman. If we somehow had a fully healthy roster and Despres and Orpik are both still here, I'd want to see Orpik watching from the press box. At most, playing on the 3rd pair behind Letang, Martin, Scuds and Maatta.

That is true, i guess i see Orpik as being more valuable come playoff time than that. Given the lack of physical defensemen on the team i think he's needed in the postseason. Whether Maatta jumps into his spot in the top 4 is something I could be potentially agreeable to if he truly continues at the pace he is at through the rest of this season. I think if Orpik is on the team however, he should be playing even if his minutes are reduced.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

I am more confident in what Maatta or Despres can do in the top 4 in the playoffs than Orpik. Especially since Nisky would allow our 3rd pairing to see solid minutes too. Our 4th d-man won't need to play some ridiculous number of minutes because we won't be sheltering the 3rd pairing if its Despres - Niskanen playing behind Scuderi - Letang and Maatta - Martin.

I agree with this, with the exception that you have to have Bortuzzo in for the playoffs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That is true, i guess i see Orpik as being more valuable come playoff time than that. Given the lack of physical defensemen on the team i think he's needed in the postseason. Whether Maatta jumps into his spot in the top 4 is something I could be potentially agreeable to if he truly continues at the pace he is at through the rest of this season. I think if Orpik is on the team however, he should be playing even if his minutes are reduced.

The issue I have with Orpik is that he's only physical in terms of his big hits. He is not good in front of the net or along the walls. His positional play is sketchy at best. He loses assignments quit often. He needs babysat every bit as much as Letang or any of the rookies do.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agree with this, with the exception that you have to have Bortuzzo in for the playoffs.

I'm a big Bortuzzo fan, but I think its pretty clear that he's the worst of the 3 rookies. So unless we move two guys out, he just doesn't have a spot. With Nisky's turnaround this year, Bortuzzo is at best our 7th best d-man even if we move Orpik.