What if Forsberg played in the 80s

[BraveCanadian]

How many game-changing hits did Oates have, can someone find a stat of thoose? Then compare it to Forsberg. As I said before, what is Adam Oates doing (he is not worthy, he is not anyway near) in a thread that should be about Forsbergs possible dominance in the 80's?

What? Please read what we are saying before you throw the kitchen sink into the argument.

 

[Rhiessan71]

How many game-changing hits did Oates have, can someone find a stat of thoose? Then compare it to Forsberg. As I said before, what is Adam Oates doing (he is not worthy, he is not anyway near) in a thread that should be about Forsbergs possible dominance in the 80's?

What does hitting have to do with playmaking or putting points on the board?
Show me where Gretzky hit someone

You seem to be under the impression that I'm saying Oates was a better player than Forsberg.
He wasn't, he was just the better pure playmaker and passer and the guy you have to look to and compare to when breaking the 100 assist mark is mentioned.

 

[matnor]

How many game-changing hits did Oates have, can someone find a stat of thoose? Then compare it to Forsberg. As I said before, what is Adam Oates doing (he is not worthy, he is not anyway near) in a thread that should be about Forsbergs possible dominance in the 80's?

Maybe not in overall play but in terms of playmaking ability it's a fair comparison. Another way of making the comparison is to take Forsberg's 11 seasons and compare with Oates' best consecutive stretch of 11 seasons in which case the numbers are:

Forsberg:1,1,1,2,2,3,3,5,10,12
Oates:1,1,1,2,2,5,6,6,7,8,11

Eliminating same finishes:

Forsberg: 3,3,10,12
Oates: 6,6,7,11

Very similar to me.

 

[RabbinsDuck]

Maybe not in overall play but in terms of playmaking ability it's a fair comparison. Another way of making the comparison is to take Forsberg's 11 seasons and compare with Oates best consecutive stretch of 11 seasons in which case the numbers are:

Forsberg:1,1,1,2,2,3,3,5,10,12
Oates:1,1,1,2,2,5,6,6,7,8,11

Eliminating same finishes:

Forsberg: 3,3,10,12
Oates: 6,6,7,11

Very similar to me.

Point per Game basis, right?
Forsberg would have missed even more games in the 80s than he did in the 90s and 00s... big difference in sports medicine between the two decades.

IMO, Forsberg tops out at 130 - with a healthy season.
In reality, he would probably be closer to 115 his best seasons -- while his PPG would go up, his actual games played would decrease.

 

[Rhiessan71]

I really just don't think people realise exactly how hard it actually is and was to break 100 assists in a season.

It's pretty obvious that Forsberg breaking 140 points would greatly hinge on it and why it's really not a realistic number.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I really just don't think people realise exactly how hard it actually is and was to break 100 assists in a season.

Well if only Orr, Lemieux and Gretzky (a pile of times) have done it..how hard can it be really?

 

[matnor]

Point per Game basis, right?

Yes, or assists per game rather.

 

[matnor]

Yes, but he didn't. And even if he was similar to Oates: Oates never hit 100 assists (was close) and Forsberg would have to pot 45-50 to even get into the 140 range.

His career high is 30 so even if the 80s were higher scoring.. the chances of him hitting even 140 are only if everything goes his way.

Got it?

Yes, but he was on pace for 30 or more 6 out of 11 seasons. I'm assuming we're talking about a season when he would be injury free. Otherwise I agree it would be very hard for him to hit 140.

 

[Snauen*]

An assist here and a point there. Thoose of you that really knew Forsberg as a player, knows that he did not care a squat on how many points he got for himself. I believe he could have scored many more points if he wanted to, he could have been more egoistic like most players whit many points in the stats are. He choose not to, for him, the team/unit winning, was the most important thing.

The focus on points in this thread is not that relevant on how Forsberg would have performed if he had played hockey in the 80's. The most elit multitalented players always find ways to be succesfull no matter how the game is played. Im sure Forsberg would have dominated a couple of seasons and won a few cups in the eighties too.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

He would have ripped it.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Im sure Forsberg would have dominated a couple of seasons and won a few cups in the eighties too.

..and just which couple of seasons in the 80's would he of dominated exactly?
Gretzky and Dionne had 137 points to lead the league in 79/80 and next lowest points total to lead the league was Gretzky with 142 in 89/90.
The other 9 years fell between 164 and 215 and 6 of them were 196+.

Also...which team would he have won "a few Cups" on, you have 2 choices, Isles or Oilers as they won 9 of 11 Cups with an 80 in the year.

Look, Forsberg was good but he wasn't even Jagr and Yzerman good let alone being Gretzky and Lemieux good.

 

[HackandLube]

Gretzky one year from retirement as an injured and battered nearly 40 year old player in the middle of the clutch and grab era basically tied Forsberg and Bure in points when they were in their primes in 1998.

Gretzky @ 38 years old playing in the most restrictive era of NHL hockey ever, had 1 less point in total points than Forsberg (and Bure) when Forsberg was as a 25 year old.

If Forsberg played in the 80s, he wouldn't be close to getting Gretzky's points in the 80s.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Forsberg's best season was 30-86-116 in 95/96 as a 23 year old and a 31 year old Mario ***** him with 161 points.
Hell his 116 wasn't even top 4 in the league and not even #1 on his own team for pete's sake.
I mean seriously, Crosby got more points as a 20 year old in a lower scoring league and time.

Enough already. I think it's been more than reasonably debunked that Forsberg wouldn't get 140 points, even in the 80's.

 

[BraveCanadian]

He would have ripped it.

Yeah he probably would have ripped something and been hurt a lot in the 80s just like he was for real...

 

[shazariahl]

Yeah he probably would have ripped something and been hurt a lot in the 80s just like he was for real...

LOL

 

[Hardyvan123]

..and just which couple of seasons in the 80's would he of dominated exactly?
Gretzky and Dionne had 137 points to lead the league in 79/80 and next lowest points total to lead the league was Gretzky with 142 in 89/90.
The other 9 years fell between 164 and 215 and 6 of them were 196+.

Also...which team would he have won "a few Cups" on, you have 2 choices, Isles or Oilers as they won 9 of 11 Cups with an 80 in the year.

Look, Forsberg was good but he wasn't even Jagr and Yzerman good let alone being Gretzky and Lemieux good.

The only thing separating Forsberg and Yzerman is 8 healthy seasons. Forsberg is just as good as Stevie Y in every aspect except for longevity IMO, his stats and playoffs success bear this out.

Forsberg also had a better defensive game than Stevie Y who was a late comer to the concept and was almost kicked out of Detroit before his 5th season.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Maybe not in overall play but in terms of playmaking ability it's a fair comparison. Another way of making the comparison is to take Forsberg's 11 seasons and compare with Oates' best consecutive stretch of 11 seasons in which case the numbers are:

Forsberg:1,1,1,2,2,3,3,5,10,12
Oates:1,1,1,2,2,5,6,6,7,8,11

Eliminating same finishes:

Forsberg: 3,3,10,12
Oates: 6,6,7,11

Very similar to me.

I love Forsberg who obviously was the better player but Oates was the best passer in his generation not named Gretzkty with 10 seasons of 70 plus adjusted assists in his career and he made Hull and Neely have career years due to his ability.

 

[jkrx]

Forsberg's best season was 30-86-116 in 95/96 as a 23 year old and a 31 year old Mario ***** him with 161 points.
Hell his 116 wasn't even top 4 in the league and not even #1 on his own team for pete's sake.
I mean seriously, Crosby got more points as a 20 year old in a lower scoring league and time.

Enough already. I think it's been more than reasonably debunked that Forsberg wouldn't get 140 points, even in the 80's.

Yes, there was an average on 16 more goals (for and against) per team in 96.

And no, you are right. He wasnt number 1 on his team in points. Sakic was 4 points better in Forsberg sophmore year. You are talking about highly marginal numbers. It wasnt like Forsberg was clear cut under anyone.

 

[Rhiessan71]

The only thing separating Forsberg and Yzerman is 8 healthy seasons. Forsberg is just as good as Stevie Y in every aspect except for longevity IMO, his stats and playoffs success bear this out.

Forsberg also had a better defensive game than Stevie Y who was a late comer to the concept and was almost kicked out of Detroit before his 5th season.

"Kicked out of Detroit" my ass, that's not even close to being an accurate statement. Possibly traded to get more depth in the organization and a true #1 goalie is much closer to the truth....kicked out

Forsberg did not have a better defensive game than Yzerman, he simply had a more physical one. The only truth to your statement is that Yzerman was later coming to that role but that is quite simply a product of his team and the league itself. He was the Wings offense early on in a less defensive responsible league overall. As the league changed, he changed.

As far as the rest of your hyperbole that Forsberg was on par with Stevie, I call BS.
Stevie, without question, was a much, MUCH greater goal scorer while being just as good of a playmaker as Forsberg. Yzerman was also faster than Forsberg and one of the best one on one players in the league not named Mario.

Playoff success...it's doubtful the Av's win either of their 2 cups without acquiring Roy.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The only thing separating Forsberg and Yzerman is 8 healthy seasons. Forsberg is just as good as Stevie Y in every aspect except for longevity IMO, his stats and playoffs success bear this out.

Forsberg also had a better defensive game than Stevie Y who was a late comer to the concept and was almost kicked out of Detroit before his 5th season.

Wow.. Forsberg is as good as Stevie Y eh?

5 time 50 goal scoring, 155 point peak, Selke trophy winning Steve Yzerman?

Seriously?

 

[BraveCanadian]

And no, you are right. He wasnt number 1 on his team in points. Sakic was 4 points better in Forsberg sophmore year. You are talking about highly marginal numbers. It wasnt like Forsberg was clear cut under anyone.

The problem is that he wasn't a clear cut ABOVE any of the similar stars as far as scoring goes.

 

[jkrx]

"Kicked out of Detroit" my ass, that's not even close to being an accurate statement. Possibly traded to get more depth in the organization and a true #1 goalie is much closer to the truth....kicked out

Forsberg did not have a better defensive game than Yzerman, he simply had a more physical one. The only truth to your statement is that Yzerman was later coming to that role but that is quite simply a product of his team and the league itself. He was the Wings offense early on in a less defensive responsible league overall. As the league changed, he changed.

As far as the rest of your hyperbole that Forsberg was on par with Stevie, I call BS.
Stevie, without question, was a much, MUCH greater goal scorer while being just as good of a playmaker as Forsberg. Yzerman was also faster than Forsberg and one of the best one on one players in the league not named Mario.

Playoff success...it's doubtful the Av's win either of their 2 cups without acquiring Roy.

The only comparison I can find between them is playmaking skills and toughness as both played with pretty severe injuries for a majority of their best season (counting Yzermans best seasons when he also had teamsuccess).

I would however say that Roy wasnt the defining player for AVS to win the cup. He was an important piece sure but I doubt they would have lost with moste of the starters that season. If Roy didnt demand a trade they would probably aquired a good starter anyways and maybe even cheaper. Felix Potvin might have won a cup.

The problem is that he wasn't a clear cut ABOVE any of the similar stars as far as scoring goes.

I'm merely speculating about a Forsberg in his prime without injuries. I agree though that if he had been as injured as he was in his career, he propably had topped out at 130 points during the 80s.

 

[Rhiessan71]

The only comparison I can find between them is playmaking skills and toughness as both played with pretty severe injuries for a majority of their best season (counting Yzermans best seasons when he also had teamsuccess).

I would however say that Roy wasnt the defining player for AVS to win the cup. He was an important piece sure but I doubt they would have lost with moste of the starters that season. If Roy didnt demand a trade they would probably aquired a good starter anyways and maybe even cheaper. Felix Potvin might have won a cup.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's a not debatable argument but it most certainly is a valid one.

I'm merely speculating about a Forsberg in his prime without injuries. I agree though that if he had been as injured as he was in his career, he propably had topped out at 130 points during the 80s.

Yep, Forsberg was better than most, no question there and I wouldn't argue against him posting somewhere in the 125-130 range. It really just comes down to that he simply wasn't prolific enough of an actual goal scorer to really push those numbers any higher.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Yep, Forsberg was better than most, no question there and I wouldn't argue against him posting somewhere in the 125-130 range. It really just comes down to that he simply wasn't prolific enough of an actual goal scorer to really push those numbers any higher.

I thought we had this figured out pages ago...

 

[Rhiessan71]

I thought we had this figured out pages ago...

Just a reminder for those too lazy to view the other pages eh