What has been the Leafs biggest mistake?

[CDN24]

They were mutually exclusive.

Bob Mackenzie had been talking about it for a year, about players looking to get paid coming off their ELC’s. Marner specifically asked to go last because his camp wanted him to get whatever Matthews did, there was never any mention (reported) in either negotiation about Tavares. JT actually took less than he was offered by two other teams as a UFA, M&M were RFA’s and looking for bags, just like how Rantanen and Aho went from ELC’s to about 8.5M-9.5M the same off-season… times were changing regardless of JT becoming a UFA.

It's important to remember that Rantanen and Aho as well as Point went after Dubas had broken the bank on Matthews. In fact I think Rantanen was also after Marner had signed. Those contracts were affected by Dubas' actions. In theory Aho as an offer sheet probably should have been the highest one and he probably has the best contract of that bunch. I get he was afraid of offer sheets but at end of the day, any potential offer sheets would not have been any higher than he gave them. Term- teams like 5 yr offer sheet because of the compensation but its not like Dubas got more term anyway. 5 yrs on one 6 on the other.

He overpaid on both, was the Tavares contract a factor? we can argue that all day but it doesn't change the fact he overpaid his RFA's and not even for Max term.

 

[danny90]

If you are talking about the Islanders it would be because they are not paying 3 players 11-12 million dollars.
You can have 1 player at that and build a good team but not 3 of basically the same player

Yes I’m talking about the islanders because you said the reason they could afford elite goaltending is because they didn’t sign Tavares for 11m which isn’t the case

 

[yubbers]

For reasons entirely unrelated, and the main thing they've been lacking is a Tavares.

Unrelated huh?
Keep ignoring actual results if you like. Doesn't change reality. The Islanders win playoff series... We Don't. It's really that simple.

 

[Bomber0104]

Yes I’m talking about the islanders because you said the reason they could afford elite goaltending is because they didn’t sign Tavares for 11m which isn’t the case

Regardless of where that $11 million is being allocated for the Islanders, it's evidently being allocated in a lot better ways than one 2nd line centre is for Toronto.

The results don't lie.

 

[danny90]

Regardless of where that $11 million is being allocated for the Islanders, it's evidently being allocated in a lot better ways than one 2nd line centre is for Toronto.

The results don't lie.

The poster I replied to said the Islanders couldn’t afford Tavares and Varlamov which isn’t true, was just correcting him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Unrelated huh? Keep ignoring actual results if you like.

Nothing is being ignored. You were just incorrect about the reason for those results.

 

[GoBuds14]

Should have kept Mark Hunter instead of Dubas. Dubas has made some really nice signings and trades, but his contract negotiations with Matthews and Marner continues to haunt this team

 

[sxvnert]

Should have kept Mark Hunter instead of Dubas.

Both are a train wreck. Equally stubborn and married to failed ideologies.

 

[GoBuds14]

Both are a train wreck. Equally stubborn and married to failed ideologies.

Really? Why is Mark Hunter a train wreck?

 

[kb]

Should have kept Mark Hunter instead of Dubas. Dubas has made some really nice signings and trades, but his contract negotiations with Matthews and Marner continues to haunt this team

No thanks. Full on pass there. His drafting sucked, and his negotiating skills are limited to (ahem) "not" paying players under the table to play in London.

 

[LeafsStorm]

Signing JT

 

[GoBuds14]

No thanks. Full on pass there. His drafting sucked, and his negotiating skills are limited to (ahem) "not" paying players under the table to play in London.

London has been the gold standard OHL team for years now and if you want to limit it to “paying players under the table” then you may not be as knowledgeable about the Knights as you think you are

 

[Sniper99]

Wish we could pick more than one.

Hiring a rookie GM for sure. A sucker at the negotiation table. I'd bet these guys made him submit to "well this team is going to offer me X amount over X # of years." and Dubas tapped out with a "duh really? ok we'll match" any other GM with experience calls their bluff. Nylander isnt worth 7 mill and Marner who at one point was my favorite player isnt worth 10.8 either. Nylander coasts a lot and Marner sticks to the outside. What killed me was when Dubas promised Nylander he wouldnt trade him if he re-signed. F*** That!!!

Keefe isnt the coach for this team either. He couldnt get this team up for Games 5 6 and 7. Need a coach who can light a fire under the whole teams ass not just the 5-6 overpaid guys on the team too.

 

[JEI]

Should have kept Mark Hunter instead of Dubas. Dubas has made some really nice signings and trades, but his contract negotiations with Matthews and Marner continues to haunt this team

Which NHL team is Hunter working for again?

 

[Aus34Matt]

Which NHL team is Hunter working for again?

None, but at least he played hockey and a more experienced executive, hence more qualified than the Dube..

NHL Draft: 7th overall, 1981; Montreal Canadiens
Playing career: 1981–1993
Played for: Montreal Canadiens, St. Louis Blues, Calgary Flames, Hartford Whalers, Washington Capitals

 

[GoBuds14]

None, but at least he played hockey and a more experienced executive, hence more qualified than the Dube..

NHL Draft: 7th overall, 1981; Montreal Canadiens
Playing career: 1981–1993
Played for: Montreal Canadiens, St. Louis Blues, Calgary Flames, Hartford Whalers, Washington Capitals

Bingo

 

[JEI]

None, but at least he played hockey and a more experienced executive, hence more qualified than the Dube..

NHL Draft: 7th overall, 1981; Montreal Canadiens
Playing career: 1981–1993
Played for: Montreal Canadiens, St. Louis Blues, Calgary Flames, Hartford Whalers, Washington Capitals

Maybe, but obviously that isn't enough to have anyone hire him except for the team he owns.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Letting Ballard own the team is still the biggest mistake.

 

[Curt]

Signing marner to that garbage contract. Nothing else comes close to that

 

[Aus34Matt]

Maybe, but obviously that isn't enough to have anyone hire him except for the team he owns.

Hence reason why were are discussing the "mistakes" or the Leafs missed opportunities

 

[FiveHoleo]

Should have kept Mark Hunter instead of Dubas. Dubas has made some really nice signings and trades, but his contract negotiations with Matthews and Marner continues to haunt this team

I agree. Hunter is a veteran in the hockey business who would have better appreciated the long term impact folding like a tent in negotiations would have on the team. You can quibble about his drafting record because some picks were big bodies that didn't pan out, but at least he was drafting stuff we needed instead of a bunch of stuff we already had in surplus.

Dubas made some trades that helped the team I agree, but they are never "great" trades even if the players we get help. For instance look at the haul Dubas paid for Muzzin and then compare it to the price paid around the league for defencemen. Grundstrom Durzi and a 1st is a pretty hefty price for Muzz and isn't far off the price Chicago paid for Jones when you factor that Grundstrom and Durzi were fairly recent high picks. Guys like Zadorov and Schmidt were obtained for a 3rd, and Muzz is closer to these guys than Jones. We got a decent player we needed but we paid a price that was out of line.

Hunter should be GM, Babcock should be coach, and Dubas should be in the mountains with Sheldon Keefe and his spreadsheets trying to reinvent the wheel for the avs.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Dubas giving out too much money up front, leading to a top heavy team with no depth.

Tampa was swept, and they went ahead and traded two first round picks+ for Goodrow and Coleman. They won 2 cups. Toronto hasn't made those moves, and to a certain extent can't even make those moves. Because they have no depth to trade up for other than Kerfoot.

 

[Polaris1010]

Any thoughts, add if you've got something else. This isn't a restrictive list, I'm still trying to figure it all out.

Something I heard that originated from the 1970's, the information was relayed to us by the Hounable Ken Dryden.

A team will not go anywhere without good management.

The organization under Babcock and Lamareillo, took steps forward. Eventually it fell apart with their departures. But there is no disputing the team was able to take steps forward.

Under the current management regime, the team appears to be standing still, or inching its way forward.

Seems like night and day comparing management of then and now.

The only steps the team seem to have taken is backwards, and the roster is older and weaker.

If the previous management team of Babcock and Lamareillo was discarded because they could not take the Leafs over the top, that could be the case, as often we see that in sports.

Tony Dungy did a tremendous job taking a laughing stock like Tampa Bay and making them a legitimate contender, but never could get over the hump and they fired him to be replaced by John "Chuckie" Gruden who did win the Superbowl in Tampa.

The Leafs no where near that.

It has gone sideways.

If Shanahan and Dubas still around, it will go sideways, then it will go down.

 

[Team First]

Letting Ballard own the team is still the biggest mistake.

I keep saying that, for the people who don't understand that lengthy period of futility....

 

[keonsbitterness]

I keep saying that, for the people who don't understand that lengthy period of futility....

Remember when Ballard hired his cottage country boat mechanic to be a Leafs trainer?