Speculation: What happens when Lazar breaks through?

[83DIZ65]

Whoa. Let's calm down a bit, here. Lazar is our top prospect, but right now, Stone is more NHL ready. Yes, I'd be willing to bet Lazar has (by a large margin) the better NHL career, eventually. But eventually isn't right now.

We have to remember he's still a teenager. A kid. He had a nice World Juniors, and he's doing well in the WHL. But let's not go overboard.

Maybe I am stretching things a bit but.... To say that Lazar should be treated as Stone is not right he is well ahead of where Stone was at the same point. Many players do not need the time in the AHL. Also its been stated that if he wouldnt have been hurt in camp hed of almost certainly gotten a 9 game look this year. All im tryin to say is whats best for Stone isn't neccasarily whats best for Lazar.

 

[83DIZ65]

He seems like the type of guy who would grow by challenging himself against the best - not by dominating weaklings. That's how you get a 'Juniors' complex like what Kadri suffers from.

Also an excellent point.

 

[Sens Rule]

Whoa. Let's calm down a bit, here. Lazar is our top prospect, but right now, Stone is more NHL ready. Yes, I'd be willing to bet Lazar has (by a large margin) the better NHL career, eventually. But eventually isn't right now.

We have to remember he's still a teenager. A kid. He had a nice World Juniors, and he's doing well in the WHL. But let's not go overboard.

Right now Lazar has a good chance to dress over Stone if he was available and there were no reason he couldn't. In my opinion. I really don't know if he would be better then Stone NOW, but Stone is much older, has played against men for awhile. Not trashing Stond at all, but he still is not a great skater. He has a wonderful hockey IQ, and seems willing to do whatever is needed on the ice. Thing is Lazar is a monster at competing and he has no real weakness. He could play with Spezza or on an energy line. He could be on a crazy energy line with Smith and Neil by this playoff.

There is a reason Stone was drafted late. If Stone could skate really well he would already be an NHL regular and would have been a really highly rated prospect by everyone, not just Sens fans.

I think Stone could be awesome and stick here and even score a lot. Speed isn't everything. Lazar is a can't miss though. He is an NHLer no matter what. Will he be a star or not is the question, not his ability to play in the NHL, Even now.

All my opinion.

 

[Sens Rule]

He seems like the type of guy who would grow by challenging himself against the best - not by dominating weaklings. That's how you get a 'Juniors' complex like what Kadri suffers from.

Agreed. He will have 2 really good junior seasons after this year. No need for him to go back. He is as likely to get bad habits as he is to become much better offensively.

I think the bigger challenge, the more he rises to it.

 

[aragorn]

Maybe I am stretching things a bit but.... To say that Lazar should be treated as Stone is not right he is well ahead of where Stone was at the same point. Many players do not need the time in the AHL. Also its been stated that if he wouldnt have been hurt in camp hed of almost certainly gotten a 9 game look this year. All im tryin to say is whats best for Stone isn't neccasarily whats best for Lazar.

Stone led Canada in scoring when he was in the WJC & almost led the tournament. Lazar isn't even the leading scorer on Canada, people get way too excited by prospects sometimes thinking they can do in the NHL what they do in junior & it doesn't work that way. Lazar seems like he will be a very good all around player, in fact, he could be an Alfredsson type player but he is still quite young & it wouldn't surprise me if they sent him back to junior for another yr if he can't be sent to Bingo.

Something to think about is that Condra & Neil both have another yr on their contracts so there isn't really room on RW given if Stone gels with Spezza. Lazar is going to have to have a very good preseason & training camp & continue playing well for nine games into the regular season to stick next yr. He's a good skater, responsible defensively & can score, everything every team needs & wants. I do wonder though with the WJC being in Canada next yr if there will be some pressure from Team Canada to let him play in the tournament & whether that will have any bearing on whether he plays in Ottawa or back in junior next season. If he is a star in next season's WJC in Canada for all Canadians to see that could sell season tickets for the following yr. Lots of interesting variables around this, should be interesting to watch & discuss.

 

[OgieO]

Stone led Canada in scoring when he was in the WJC & almost led the tournament. Lazar isn't even the leading scorer on Canada, people get way too excited by prospects sometimes thinking they can do in the NHL what they do in junior & it doesn't work that way. Lazar seems like he will be a very good all around player, in fact, he could be an Alfredsson type player but he is still quite young & it wouldn't surprise me if they sent him back to junior for another yr if he can't be sent to Bingo.

Something to think about is that Condra & Neil both have another yr on their contracts so there isn't really room on RW given if Stone gels with Spezza. Lazar is going to have to have a very good preseason & training camp & continue playing well for nine games into the regular season to stick next yr. He's a good skater, responsible defensively & can score, everything every team needs & wants. I do wonder though with the WJC being in Canada next yr if there will be some pressure from Team Canada to let him play in the tournament & whether that will have any bearing on whether he plays in Ottawa or back in junior next season. If he is a star in next season's WJC in Canada for all Canadians to see that could sell season tickets for the following yr. Lots of interesting variables around this, should be interesting to watch & discuss.

Stone has some gifted offensive skills - hockey IQ and a knack for scoring, but much of his game was not NHL ready. He's improved his skating, that was critical and probably needed to be done in the AHL. Lazar appears more NHL ready in terms of skills, its more likely that he comes in quickly over Stone for that reason (but I still wouldn't be inclined to rush him to the NHL if he's better served waiting).

 

[YNWA14]

Stone led Canada in scoring when he was in the WJC & almost led the tournament. Lazar isn't even the leading scorer on Canada, people get way too excited by prospects sometimes thinking they can do in the NHL what they do in junior & it doesn't work that way. Lazar seems like he will be a very good all around player, in fact, he could be an Alfredsson type player but he is still quite young & it wouldn't surprise me if they sent him back to junior for another yr if he can't be sent to Bingo.

Stone played at the WJC as a 19 year old in his last year of eligibility for junior. Lazar was named as one of Canada's top 3 forwards, and is believed by many to have been Canada's best player, at 18 years old with another year of eligibility left. Hardly comparable. Lazar's skillset is more transferrable to the NHL than Stone's is if we're comparing junior accomplishments.

Something to think about is that Condra & Neil both have another yr on their contracts so there isn't really room on RW given if Stone gels with Spezza. Lazar is going to have to have a very good preseason & training camp & continue playing well for nine games into the regular season to stick next yr. He's a good skater, responsible defensively & can score, everything every team needs & wants. I do wonder though with the WJC being in Canada next yr if there will be some pressure from Team Canada to let him play in the tournament & whether that will have any bearing on whether he plays in Ottawa or back in junior next season. If he is a star in next season's WJC in Canada for all Canadians to see that could sell season tickets for the following yr. Lots of interesting variables around this, should be interesting to watch & discuss.

If Lazar is ready for the NHL the team will make room for him. I'd like to see them let him play in the WJC next year regardless of whether he's playing in Ottawa or Edmonton.

 

[StefanW]

Stone led Canada in scoring when he was in the WJC & almost led the tournament. Lazar isn't even the leading scorer on Canada, people get way too excited by prospects sometimes thinking they can do in the NHL what they do in junior & it doesn't work that way. Lazar seems like he will be a very good all around player, in fact, he could be an Alfredsson type player but he is still quite young & it wouldn't surprise me if they sent him back to junior for another yr if he can't be sent to Bingo.

Something to think about is that Condra & Neil both have another yr on their contracts so there isn't really room on RW given if Stone gels with Spezza. Lazar is going to have to have a very good preseason & training camp & continue playing well for nine games into the regular season to stick next yr. He's a good skater, responsible defensively & can score, everything every team needs & wants. I do wonder though with the WJC being in Canada next yr if there will be some pressure from Team Canada to let him play in the tournament & whether that will have any bearing on whether he plays in Ottawa or back in junior next season. If he is a star in next season's WJC in Canada for all Canadians to see that could sell season tickets for the following yr. Lots of interesting variables around this, should be interesting to watch & discuss.

Don't bother. The informal rule in this thread is to only focus on the good and assume that 18 and 19 year old players always immediately reach their full potential, enter the NHL without any transitional problems, and take spots away from the vets.

This will be a fun thread to revive next Oct.

 

[aragorn]

Stone played at the WJC as a 19 year old in his last year of eligibility for junior. Lazar was named as one of Canada's top 3 forwards, and is believed by many to have been Canada's best player, at 18 years old with another year of eligibility left. Hardly comparable. Lazar's skillset is more transferrable to the NHL than Stone's is if we're comparing junior accomplishments.

If Lazar is ready for the NHL the team will make room for him. I'd like to see them let him play in the WJC next year regardless of whether he's playing in Ottawa or Edmonton.

We all have our opinions right, Stone also lead the WHL in scoring his last two yrs of junior or was right up there, we could argue back & forth whose skill is better or which skill is more important without ever agreeing, know what I mean? Was Mantha also named one of Canada's best three forwards since he led Canada in scoring but like Stone lacks the foot speed & like Stone "he just scores". I remember having arguments on here about Alfredsson being the better all around player, better than Spezza, while many argued that Spezza was better because he just scores. Now I find myself on the other side of the argument, funny.

Lazar is going to be a good player, I compare him with Alfredsson for his overall skill, good at everything but I do wonder if having the WJC in Canada next yr will weight in on whether he sticks or not. I also think if the RW is full it may impact the decision given how hard it is to make trades especially for Ottawa financially.

Do you see where if Canada wins gold in Canada & if Lazar is their best player or one of, how that could impact ticket sales? Having a kid on the team who could be captain and/or one of their best players on a BIG STAGE could be important to Ottawa to sell more tickets & have pride in the city. I would even bet the season ticket blitz would start early in the New Year, it will be interesting to watch what happens. I'm sure management will think about it. Didn't they milk Mika getting the golden GWG? They are still milking the golden boy Crosby's GWG. Something to think about.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Ok, I think I know the answer you'll come up with but I'll bite. Out of Spezza, Turris, 93Z, or Smith whose spot is he going to take?

He won't be a 19 year old center in all likelihood.

Lots can get in the way but I expect lazar will be in a real tryout next year.

 

[YNWA14]

I hope whether or not Lazar makes the team he plays for Canada at the WJC next year. I think he'd be a lock to be the captain of the team, and be given a huge role just like this year. If he could captain that team to gold it would be beneficial not only for him but for the organization (and Canada obviously).

We can agree to disagree. Not everyone sees things the same way. That's what makes for such interesting discussion on this board. Plus, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing that Stone is a good prospect; it's just hard to compare the WJCs of Stone at 19 on North American ice vs. Lazar at 18 on international ice.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Im a strong believer that players should finish their junior careers and develop in the AHL. Let him stay in junior, push his offensive numbers a little bit. I dont want to bring this kid in and hes stuck in the third line checking position for 5 years because he never got the chance to gradually polish off his offensive skills. More time in junior only means that he will have the puck on his stick more often, thats a good thing. Right now hes a winger on the third line in the NHL, after some devlopment and huge puck possession numbers in junior and AHL he could be a 2-3 center.

 

[guyzeur]

Im a strong believer that players should finish their junior careers and develop in the AHL. Let him stay in junior, push his offensive numbers a little bit. I dont want to bring this kid in and hes stuck in the third line checking position for 5 years because he never got the chance to gradually polish off his offensive skills. More time in junior only means that he will have the puck on his stick more often, thats a good thing. Right now hes a winger on the third line in the NHL, after some devlopment and huge puck possession numbers in junior and AHL he could be a 2-3 center.

He already spent 4 years in junior (I believe). Bingo is the next step for him.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

you are correct, then bingo it is. Id personally like to see him brought up as a center, so when spezza is finished we can have three two way monsters in the center slots.

 

[R2010]

Talked to Randy Lee and he said as soon as the Oil Kings season is done this year, he will join the team. Also said he would've made the team this year but they had too many bodies.

That's the buzz that was going around training camp - he turned a lot of heads around town when he came in. I always remember what Shawn Simpson on the Team 1200 said about him. Simpson can be a bit of an idiot but he's got a long history of managerial experience in the NHL and he said that there's got to be something he's missing about this Lazar kid because with the 17th overall pick you shouldn't be able to get a guy who looks as good as he did in terms of skating, shooting and tenacity at 18 years old.

Personally I think he's very good but his puck control needs work in addition to his offensive creativity. He has elements which remind me of Mike Fisher, albeit with the ability to play all three positions and with more of a goal scoring touch. Just what the senators need.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

That's the buzz that was going around training camp - he turned a lot of heads around town when he came in. I always remember what Shawn Simpson on the Team 1200 said about him. Simpson can be a bit of an idiot but he's got a long history of managerial experience in the NHL and he said that there's got to be something he's missing about this Lazar kid because with the 17th overall pick you shouldn't be able to get a guy who looks as good as he did in terms of skating, shooting and tenacity at 18 years old.

Personally I think he's very good but his puck control needs work in addition to his offensive creativity. He has elements which remind me of Mike Fisher, albeit with the ability to play all three positions and with more of a goal scoring touch. Just what the senators need.

I think the "missing piece" might be the kind of goals he scored in the WHL last year. I remember watching a few of his highlight videos others posted here after he was drafted. He has great instincts, but a lot of his goals were junior-ish garbage goals by the net. Kinda like Mantha in a way, where he just happened to be either standing around the net or just taking shots on net for goals. Those will be a lot harder to come by at the NHL level.

I would hazard a guess that people looking at the goal scoring record he broke at the minor league levels were expecting a more pure scorer with elite hands. He's more of a workmanlike scorer. I suppose some scouts didn't think he would put up a decent number of points at the NHL level, but overlooked all his other qualities (leadership, drive, 2-way game, high IQ, etc).

 

[Sens Rule]

We all have our opinions right, Stone also lead the WHL in scoring his last two yrs of junior or was right up there, we could argue back & forth whose skill is better or which skill is more important without ever agreeing, know what I mean? Was Mantha also named one of Canada's best three forwards since he led Canada in scoring but like Stone lacks the foot speed & like Stone "he just scores". I remember having arguments on here about Alfredsson being the better all around player, better than Spezza, while many argued that Spezza was better because he just scores. Now I find myself on the other side of the argument, funny.

Lazar is going to be a good player, I compare him with Alfredsson for his overall skill, good at everything but I do wonder if having the WJC in Canada next yr will weight in on whether he sticks or not. I also think if the RW is full it may impact the decision given how hard it is to make trades especially for Ottawa financially.

Do you see where if Canada wins gold in Canada & if Lazar is their best player or one of, how that could impact ticket sales? Having a kid on the team who could be captain and/or one of their best players on a BIG STAGE could be important to Ottawa to sell more tickets & have pride in the city. I would even bet the season ticket blitz would start early in the New Year, it will be interesting to watch what happens. I'm sure management will think about it. Didn't they milk Mika getting the golden GWG? They are still milking the golden boy Crosby's GWG. Something to think about.

I don't see WJC performance as a gateway to greater ticket sales. Even if Lazar pulled an Eberle at the WJC. What sells tickets in Ottawa is winning. If Lazar helps the team win more games then a replacement he sells more tickets. If we win more playoff games due to him, we sell more tickets and make more money. WJC or any outside hype don't sell tickets in Ottawa, except maybe the first game or two after the WJC.

Win: 19500-20500 seats, standing room snd oversell the boxes.

Lose: 15500-17500 seats, empty boxes, wide swaths of seats. At each price point empty.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

i disagree. Eberles big draw was that he was a Canadian junior hero. If eberle somehow came to Ottawa i think our ticket sales improve to watch him. If Lazar pulled an Eberle i think the buzz is a lot greater in Ottawa, not just with the die hard fans.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Don't bother. The informal rule in this thread is to only focus on the good and assume that 18 and 19 year old players always immediately reach their full potential, enter the NHL without any transitional problems, and take spots away from the vets.

This will be a fun thread to revive next Oct.

Will you revive it if you're wrong?

 

[83DIZ65]

Wow there is alot of Jackassary on these boards..... I just wanna quickly point out with out attacking anyone dirrectly that no one is saying hes gonna walk in and be an 80pt player lol he just is good enough to play at this lvl. thats all...

 

[guyzeur]

That's the buzz that was going around training camp - he turned a lot of heads around town when he came in. I always remember what Shawn Simpson on the Team 1200 said about him. Simpson can be a bit of an idiot but he's got a long history of managerial experience in the NHL and he said that there's got to be something he's missing about this Lazar kid because with the 17th overall pick you shouldn't be able to get a guy who looks as good as he did in terms of skating, shooting and tenacity at 18 years old.

Personally I think he's very good but his puck control needs work in addition to his offensive creativity. He has elements which remind me of Mike Fisher, albeit with the ability to play all three positions and with more of a goal scoring touch. Just what the senators need.

Simpson is an idiot.

 

[YNWA14]

Will you revive it if you're wrong?

Is this a rhetorical question?

 

[Ice-Tray]

Is this a rhetorical question?

Pretty much, that isht never happens.

One of the perks of hedging your bets, when the pendulum swings the wrong way you can just duck your head and blend in with the happy masses.

 

[83DIZ65]

Pretty much, that isht never happens.

One of the perks of hedging your bets, when the pendulum swings the wrong way you can just duck your head and blend in with the happy masses.

I tend to try to make my points loud enough so people remember them im always down for a debate...

 

[benjiv1]

People should temper their expectations.

Look what happened with Pageau this year. People were calling into the Team1200, saying that whatever line Pageau is on, would be the top line.

Lazar will be the type of player that COULD jump into the NHL on a 3rd or 4th line and be effective, but I think it's in his and the team's best interest to develop him properly.

IMO Philly really screwed up Couturier's development by having him start in the NHL as a 3rd/4th line player.

I expect Lazar to get 8 games in the N next year, and go back to junior. Then finish the year with Bingo.