What happened with Nyquist and Tatar?

[WingsMJN2965]

Tatar: 23 points in 29 games (65 point pace)

Nyquist 26 points in 29 games (74 points pace)

Both having good years but people need to start adjusting to the fact that scoring is way up league wide. Most U30 players are on pace for career highs this season.

 

[GKG18]

really thought Tatar was gonna be a 65 point player.

McPhee agreed with you.

 

[Gnashville]

They were overrated because they were later round Red Wings picks from Europe. If any other team drafts them they would be considered fine players.

 

[Mrb1p]

I've said that either of these guys would be good with a good centerman. The last couple years Nyquist and Tatar havent had them in Detroit but now Larkin has taken another step for Nyquist, and so has Domi in Montreal. They arent guys that can do all the heavy lifting themselves but are still really solid top 6 players

Tatar plays with one of the worst offensive C in the league in Danault.

 

[TheAngryHank]

They were overrated because they were later round Red Wings picks from Europe. If any other team drafts them they would be considered fine players.

I don't see anyone saying anything but they are fine players.Like a well made car with low miles ,can't go wrong.They aren't supercars.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Both having good years but people need to start adjusting to the fact that scoring is way up league wide. Most U30 players are on pace for career highs this season.

Scoring isn't up that much. Especially not for Wings and Habs.

 

[theYman]

Scoring isn't up that much. Especially not for Wings and Habs.

No Wings scoring is up alot from last year.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

What happened to these guys? They both looked like 60-65+ point first line players 3-4 years ago and guys who would lead the new era of Detroit Red Wings hockey following Datsyuk/Zetterberg's departure and decline.

Nyquist stormed on the scene with 30 goals 48 points in 57 games and then had 54 the next year, good for a 60 point pace over his first 140 games. Tatar had a 30 goal, 56 point season and looked like he could be one of the better offensive players in the league.

Since then, they have paced for 40-45 points and look like 2nd liners at best. They both only have 12 points in 27 games good for a 36 point pace.

Guys like Mantha, Larkin and Athanasiou seem to have surpassed them at this point and they seem like afterthoughts at this point. Their lack of production is also a reason why Detroit has been as bad as they are this year.

Thoughts?

Babcock makes lots of subpar players look good.

 

[newfy]

Tatar plays with one of the worst offensive C in the league in Danault.

DId he start the year with Domi? WHen he had that hot streak right off the bat scoring a lot I could've swore Domi was his center

 

[Nick Slafkofield]

DId he start the year with Domi? WHen he had that hot streak right off the bat scoring a lot I could've swore Domi was his center

No it was Tatar-Danault-Gallagher from the start and it never changed. In fact i think it is the only Montreal line that has not been touched by julien

 

[tucker3434]

They were overrated to begin with. They entered the league a bit older so their early numbers were deceiving. Yes, they put up great rookie numbers but they did it at 23-24. Those guys aren’t likely to see the same growth as players who put up those totals at 19. I remember there was a sect of wings fans telling us that because Datsyuk and Zetterberg did it, so would Tatar and Nyquist. That was always wildly and outrageously optimistic.

So that, and the team is worse now than it was then, and here we are today.

 

[LarKing]

They were good players that were asked to fill the shoes of multiple past duos of hall of famers. Really unfair expectations.

Some people in this thread love to bring up that group of wings fans that thought they could be the new D and Z. I’m ashamed to admit I was somewhat in that group as I thought they could be 70-80 point players or so.

I think they’re moreso good complimentary top six forwards though. Can boost a good line but shouldn’t be the best player on it.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Scoring isn't up that much. Especially not for Wings and Habs.

There are currently 43 players at a PPG average. (15 games minimum)

Last year there were 24. (41 games minimum) In 2016-2017 there were EIGHT. In 2015-2016 there were FIVE.

Moreso, Detroit had 2.59 GPG (212 goals) last year compared to 2.90 currently. (238 goal pace) Montreal had 2.52 (207 goals) GPG compared to 3.14 currently. (257 goal pace)

 

[Hostile Offer]

DId he start the year with Domi? WHen he had that hot streak right off the bat scoring a lot I could've swore Domi was his center

Nope, he has played with Danault and Gallagher since like game one in the preseason. Him and Gallagher have found real nice chemistry, Danault isn't much of a factor in his success though.

 

[newfy]

Nope, he has played with Danault and Gallagher since like game one in the preseason. Him and Gallagher have found real nice chemistry, Danault isn't much of a factor in his success though.

Obviously I was wrong then, I watched a few games at the start of the year to see how Tatar was doing and thought it was Domi and Gallagher with him. Even more impressive that hes doing it with Danault. Danault is a solid defensive center that can chip in offensively but hes defintely not a stud offensive player. That trade looks pretty good for Montreal for sure

 

[eviohh26]

Datsyuk. Is your answer. Guy makes everyone around him way better. He left. Zetty was a shell of himself. Those guys were exposed.


Like come on.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Datsyuk. Is your answer. Guy makes everyone around him way better. He left. Zetty was a shell of himself. Those guys were exposed.


Like come on.

The team inevitably took a dump once Datsyuk left, but for the most part Tatar and Nyquist produced the same. (Except Nyquist's ridiculous first year)

... The guy who really tanked was Abdelkader. Got a 7 year contract for being Datsyuk's backboard from which to bank pucks in off. Can barely even put up 10 goals a year now.

 

[JianYang]

Tatar looks just fine. He's putting up points with Phillip freakin danault as his center.

That being said, contenders would have guys like tatar as the complimentary peices, not the foundation. I know that kind of runs counterpoint to the fact that he's producing well with a non offensive center, but that's what I believe.

 

[JianYang]

Obviously I was wrong then, I watched a few games at the start of the year to see how Tatar was doing and thought it was Domi and Gallagher with him. Even more impressive that hes doing it with Danault. Danault is a solid defensive center that can chip in offensively but hes defintely not a stud offensive player. That trade looks pretty good for Montreal for sure

You might have been thinking of the PP. I seem to recall that tatar was with Domi on the PP briefly to start the year, but I could be wrong.

The PP has been a mess, and it is becoming a blur as to who has played on what.

 

[ricky0034]

There are currently 43 players at a PPG average. (15 games minimum)

Last year there were 24. (41 games minimum) In 2016-2017 there were EIGHT. In 2015-2016 there were FIVE.

Moreso, Detroit had 2.59 GPG (212 goals) last year compared to 2.90 currently. (238 goal pace) Montreal had 2.52 (207 goals) GPG compared to 3.14 currently. (257 goal pace)

goals per game throughout the league is up by under 4% over last year,last year it went up by about 7 and a half percent over the year before and Tatar and Nyquist's numbers went DOWN

but nah that 4% increase is totally causing their point totals to double man

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Remember similar times in their careers when Hudler and Filppula were mediocre at best...

... Both had to leave the team to start playing well again. Funny how that works.

Filppula's career high was on the Wings. And Hudler had one great year after Detroit. Everything else was comparable or worse. Then they both fell off a cliff at the ripe old age of 33.

 

[ole ole]

What happened to these guys? They both looked like 60-65+ point first line players 3-4 years ago and guys who would lead the new era of Detroit Red Wings hockey following Datsyuk/Zetterberg's departure and decline.

Nyquist stormed on the scene with 30 goals 48 points in 57 games and then had 54 the next year, good for a 60 point pace over his first 140 games. Tatar had a 30 goal, 56 point season and looked like he could be one of the better offensive players in the league.

Since then, they have paced for 40-45 points and look like 2nd liners at best. They both only have 12 points in 27 games good for a 36 point pace.

Guys like Mantha, Larkin and Athanasiou seem to have surpassed them at this point and they seem like afterthoughts at this point. Their lack of production is also a reason why Detroit has been as bad as they are this year.

Thoughts?

Tatar says how do you like me NOW.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Both decent players being signed to s mediocre at best Detroit team over their careers?

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Scoring isn't up that much. Especially not for Wings and Habs.

Uh, yeah it is? Detroits offensive output this year is the highest it's been since 2011-2012

 

[Pavels Dog]

Uh, yeah it is? Detroits offensive output this year is the highest it's been since 2011-2012

I meant Wings aren't scoring at some unbelievable rate that means everyone's numbers gets inflated. They're simply not the complete offensive trainwreck they've been the past few seasons. If Nyquist played on a team like Tampa, Toronto or Pittsburgh his numbers would be inflated, currently he is just doing what he is capable of doing on a decent team. Or should we only take players offensive numbers at face value if they're playing on bottom 5 offensive teams? Wings are 19th offensively so hardly a powerhouse offense.