What happened with Nyquist and Tatar?

[SpookyTsuki]

I’m not sure that Tatar was overhyped. He’s still good put him on a team with a dcore that can move the puck and he puts up 30 every year

Nyquist is who he is. 2nd liner who won’t produce in the playoffs at all. Overhyped but you can’t blame anyone for that. The streak he had really was amazing

 

[sr edler]

Nyquist was never anything special talent wise but got going on opportunity, hard work and good team surroundings, so nothing really ”happened”.

Tatar I know less about but perhaps he was never a world beater in the first place.

 

[Regal]

everyone keptpraising the patient "Detroit Model" that was overcooking nyquist and tatar and kindl and smith in the ahl....turns out they just weren't all that good, and should never have bee considered "top prospects" when they were good but not great 24yr old ahlers.

Yea, I mean the model wasn't necessarily a bad thing. They brought lower picks around slowly into useful players. But an AHL-seasoned 24 year old is generally going to be a "what you see is what you get" type from the start. Nyquist's goal totals in his first year were impressive, but his shooting percentage pointed to that being a mirage. His totals have gone down a bit, but the Wings have also gotten worse since then, as Datsyuk left and Zetterberg got older.

 

[bert]

Red Wings fans overrated them, that's what happened.

Yeah that's clearly the case in this thread. #figureitout

 

[alko]

really thought Tatar was gonna be a 65 point player.

I would say, that his peak could be on 64 points.

Every year we, the fans from Slovakia, are in the mode, that this time must be the year. That this season will Tatar break into the top. He is only 27, so there is still time. But i would say, we should be reconciled, that he is a good player. Not god player.

 

[Lolonegoal]

Detroit literally wasted Nyquist's prime years in the AHL. I believe he was near 25 before he was given a full-time spot on a cramped Wings roster despite behind the leading scorer on the calder cup winning team. His break-out year with almost 30 goals in under 60 games wasn't surprising because he had NHL ready skill, but the problem was he wasn't given chance to play with the best of his age group, stunted what could have been further development, and by the time he's played just a few years in the league is already on the decline due to his age. Tatar was given the same treatment, not to the same extent but was being sitting out games at the begin of the season for the Dany Cleary's of their roster. Some red wings fans thought these guys were the next Datysuk and Zetterberg. More like they were the next Hudler and Filpulla, and unfortunately will likely suffer the same departure with the wings under similar circumstances.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Nothing happened except the Wings got a lot worse. They’re ~50 point players meaning they can hit 60 in a good situation and around 40 in a bad situation (current Wings).

They’re stuck on a team that plays a low-talent, grind-it-out type of game. Not their style. If/when they get traded to better teams we’ll have ”Nyquist/Tatar roaring back!” threads instead.

 

[tucker3434]

They got a good amount of hype after their rookie years, because rookies can only get better. I guess that’s usually true but not always, especially if the rookie is an older one. They came into the league pretty much at their peak. Combine that with the downfall of Detroit, and here we are.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Detroit literally wasted Nyquist's prime years in the AHL. I believe he was near 25 before he was given a full-time spot on a cramped Wings roster despite behind the leading scorer on the calder cup winning team. His break-out year with almost 30 goals in under 60 games wasn't surprising because he had NHL ready skill, but the problem was he wasn't given chance to play with the best of his age group, stunted what could have been further development, and by the time he's played just a few years in the league is already on the decline due to his age. Tatar was given the same treatment, not to the same extent but was being sitting out games at the begin of the season for the Dany Cleary's of their roster. Some red wings fans thought these guys were the next Datysuk and Zetterberg. More like they were the next Hudler and Filpulla, and unfortunately will likely suffer the same departure with the wings under similar circumstances.

This isn’t really true. Nyquist was drafted as an overager and then spent 3 years playing college hockey. He then spent 2 years splitting time approximately 75% AHL 25% NHL. He then spent the start of his next season in the AHL before being promoted to the NHL full time. He should have absolutely been on the team to start that year, but I wouldn’t call it wasting his prime. You can argue he should have been in the NHL the year before, but that’s about it. At most Nyquist was in the AHL a year to long. Hardly career altering.

Tatar was a full time NHL player at 22 and had to work hard on his skating for years to get there. Yea, Babcock sitting Tatar the first 9 games of the season that he was waiver eligible is the worst roster decision he has ever made, but I wouldn’t call that wasting his prime either.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Nyquist could be a 60 point player, but he needs a trade to a better team.

 

[newfy]

Detroit literally wasted Nyquist's prime years in the AHL. I believe he was near 25 before he was given a full-time spot on a cramped Wings roster despite behind the leading scorer on the calder cup winning team. His break-out year with almost 30 goals in under 60 games wasn't surprising because he had NHL ready skill, but the problem was he wasn't given chance to play with the best of his age group, stunted what could have been further development, and by the time he's played just a few years in the league is already on the decline due to his age. Tatar was given the same treatment, not to the same extent but was being sitting out games at the begin of the season for the Dany Cleary's of their roster. Some red wings fans thought these guys were the next Datysuk and Zetterberg. More like they were the next Hudler and Filpulla, and unfortunately will likely suffer the same departure with the wings under similar circumstances.

I think this is the right answer. Nyquist was basically 25 when he finally got his shot. And if the wings werent destroyed by injuries he would've had to wait another year even, he was severely mishandled by management. A speedy guy like him likely peaks around that age, not gets his start.

Anyone who says they never thought Nyquist was anything special or has always been mediocre are lying. When he broke into the league that year and all of Detroits top players were hurt, a lot of people thought he should get hart votes. He had 30 goals in under 60 games with guys like Sheahan and Joakim Andersson as his centermen, thats a peak higher than most players on the teams a lot of people on here cheer for.

As for Tatar, I think hes still a solid player. If he got traded to a team with a playmaker he would score 30 goals. Hes always been more of a triggerman and despite that sweet goal against Dallas, hes never been a guy who creates a lot of offense on his own

 

[raymond23]

The amount of Red Wings fans who saw these guys as the next Datsyuk & Zetterberg are few and far between. That was all media hype.

 

[Frk It]

I think there's a couple things at play:

1) They never made enough strength gains to be versatile offensively. I think as Wings fans, we just expected them to improve like Datsyuk and Z did in that regard, where they would be stronger on the puck and not rely on being perimeter guys... that hasn't really happened.

2) The Red Wings defense is trash... they struggle to get the puck up ice, forwards have to hang back, whole slew of issues go along with that.

3) The over-ripening made it so they came into the league at a late age, and no one really "had the book on them" yet. So they got off to "hot starts" and then a lot of folks just assumed an upward trajectory from there.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Tatar: 23 points in 29 games (65 point pace)

Nyquist 26 points in 29 games (74 points pace)

 

[Ishad]

Tatar: 23 points in 29 games (65 point pace)

Nyquist 26 points in 29 games (74 points pace)

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking as well. Seems like an odd time to start this thread.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking as well. Seems like an odd time to start this thread.

Check the date it was made...

 

[Ishad]

Check the date it was made...

Gah! Tricked by a year old necro.

 

[Big Ed]

Tatar: 23 points in 29 games (65 point pace)

Nyquist 26 points in 29 games (74 points pace)

I had always thought the last few years that both would be 60+ point players away from Blash, but Nyquist is doing good under him this year, so who knows. Kinda wish we could get Tuna back.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Nyquist improving his trade value,should bring a good return.

 

[Claypool]

Detroit literally wasted Nyquist's prime years in the AHL. I believe he was near 25 before he was given a full-time spot on a cramped Wings roster despite behind the leading scorer on the calder cup winning team. His break-out year with almost 30 goals in under 60 games wasn't surprising because he had NHL ready skill, but the problem was he wasn't given chance to play with the best of his age group, stunted what could have been further development, and by the time he's played just a few years in the league is already on the decline due to his age. Tatar was given the same treatment, not to the same extent but was being sitting out games at the begin of the season for the Dany Cleary's of their roster. Some red wings fans thought these guys were the next Datysuk and Zetterberg. More like they were the next Hudler and Filpulla, and unfortunately will likely suffer the same departure with the wings under similar circumstances.

Nyquist was a 4th round pick, not some 1st round can't-miss prospect. He's fortunate to even have an NHL career. He played three years of college and two full years in the minors. He has always been playing against tougher opponents. His development track was hardly that different from most. His problem is the league figured him out and he could never adjust. It happens.

Tatar made Detroit as a full-time player at age 22 and played four years in the AHL right after his draft year. He, too, had been playing against older players early in his development.

Both players are very good for where they were drafted. They just never turned into superstars and it had nothing to do with their development.

 

[raymond23]

Nyquist is playing the best hockey of his career right now. Really want to see him compete for the Cup.

 

[Goalie guy]

Back from the dead just like this post lol.

 

[newfy]

I've said that either of these guys would be good with a good centerman. The last couple years Nyquist and Tatar havent had them in Detroit but now Larkin has taken another step for Nyquist, and so has Domi in Montreal. They arent guys that can do all the heavy lifting themselves but are still really solid top 6 players

 

[CheldishGamibno]

I've said that either of these guys would be good with a good centerman. The last couple years Nyquist and Tatar havent had them in Detroit but now Larkin has taken another step for Nyquist, and so has Domi in Montreal. They arent guys that can do all the heavy lifting themselves but are still really solid top 6 players

Tatar plays with Danault though. He very rarely plays with Domi, not even on the PP, they're on separate waves.

 

[PittsburghPens8771]

They're both decent players, but not gamebreakers. They're also both small, not particularly strong, and not particularly speedy. They basically need to be in the right situation ie. a good team, in order to succeed. When there's no defense or offensive support for them to build off of, they are not as effective.

I think both would be very solid complimentary pieces on a good team, but the Wings are a calamity right now, and those two are a part of it.

Also to be fair, their production for their salaries isn't that bad either, but still think both would benefit immensely with a change of scenery on the right team.

Would love to see them w Crosby and Malkin. Always wanted them on the Pens