What even is Vegas?

Conbon

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Oct 4, 2016
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Sorry, but I stopped reading there. Vegas' success is only a surprise to people who can't realize that Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Perron, Neal, Haula, Tuch, Miller, Schmidt, and Theodore might just be good top 6/top 4 players, and that guys like Eakin, Bellemare, Hunt, Engelland, Mcnabb and Sbisa are solid role players.
Up until this year Marchessault was a gamble that could either be a flash in the pan like Cory Conacher or he could be legit.
Riely Smith was seen as soft and inconsistent. A passenger.
Karlsson scored 6 goals in 81 games last year on the third line. A player with the talent to score 43 goals should be able to score more than 6 regardless of how they are used. If you put Ovechkin in a third line checking role he would score more than 6.
Perron was another soft talented player but not talented enough to stick in the multiple teams that tried to slot him in.
Haula was seen as depth, not a premier power play player
Admittedly don't know much about Colin Miller
Schmidt was a top 4 Dman that the caps hated losing
Theodore has delivered as promised but not without being scratched in favour of Brad Hunt for half the season.
The rest are solid role players and to the guy who told me I don't watch Flames games, I know Engelland was more than a goon in his final year with the Flames, it was hyperbole.
 

Quid Pro Clowe

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Dec 28, 2008
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The NHL would look like a joke if an expansion team makes the final. But it looks like they can handle the Sharks and the only thing that would stand in their way is probably Winnipeg or Nashville. Winnipeg is more beatable of the two especially with the Myers injury.

Make it happen NHL, make your organization look like a farce.
The Sharks can handle them, too.
 

HanSolo

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Apr 7, 2008
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The main question is this:

Which Hollywood actors are they going to get to play the different characters in the movie Miracle On Ice 2?
Wild Bill-Ansel Elgort in a blonde wig
Gerard Gallant- Dean Norris from Breaking Bad
Jonathan Marchessault-Jake Gyllenhal
Marc Andre Fleury- Joseph Gordon Levitt
George McPhee-Tom Hanks
Bill Foley-Robert De Niro in prosthetics
Gary Bettman-Paul Giamatti
Rielly Smith-Ben Affleck
Vadim Shipachyov-Tom Hardy
 
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HockeyAnalystGenius

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Jun 15, 2017
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Anyone who didn't see it (99% of this forum - casual fans who do not know how to analysis the Game) is a casual fan who does not know who to analysis the game. I was calling it months before the Season. Look at my Post History.
 

supsens

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Oct 6, 2013
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That's not how hockey players think. They weren't protected is the same thing as they were considered not good enough/didn't fit for the organization's plans going forward.

Hockey players are people they are not one mind, and some of them know if players a and b didn’t have NMC they would still be on the team. Others understand what only being able to protect some of your players means.
 
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HockeyMomx2

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Dec 6, 2008
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The Most Beautiful Place In The World
Wild Bill-Ansel Elgort in a blonde wig
Gerard Gallant- Dean Norris from Breaking Bad
Jonathan Marchessault-Jake Gyllenhal
Marc Andre Fleury- Joseph Gordon Levitt
George McPhee-Tom Hanks
Bill Foley-Robert De Niro in prosthetics
Gary Bettman-Paul Giamatti
Rielly Smith-Ben Affleck
Vadim Shipachyov-Tom Hardy
Lotta folks better start some Learn to Skate lessons LOL
 

HanSolo

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Engelland also has and continues to be, underrated.
Even I underrated him as someone who said at the expansion draft that people were vastly underrating the roster.

He has been very solid in his own zone. It's rare that he breaks down and gives the other team a good chance.
 

nowhereman

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Jan 24, 2010
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"The whole is greater than the sum of its parts".

That quote pretty much sums up the Golden Knights. It's the perfect storm of guys from The Island of Misfit Toys who have come together, under great coaching, to play for each other with an "us against the world"-mentality. They are the ultimate definition of team synergy, where everyone is on the same page and committed to shared success. Add to that some great goaltending, a little luck and a whole hell of a lot of hard work and there you have it.

That said, I don't think this continues into next year. This is something magical we're witnessing here but I'm not sure that it's sustainable.
 
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HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
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Up until this year Marchessault was a gamble that could either be a flash in the pan like Cory Conacher or he could be legit.
Riely Smith was seen as soft and inconsistent. A passenger.
Karlsson scored 6 goals in 81 games last year on the third line. A player with the talent to score 43 goals should be able to score more than 6 regardless of how they are used. If you put Ovechkin in a third line checking role he would score more than 6.
Perron was another soft talented player but not talented enough to stick in the multiple teams that tried to slot him in.
Haula was seen as depth, not a premier power play player
Admittedly don't know much about Colin Miller
Schmidt was a top 4 Dman that the caps hated losing
Theodore has delivered as promised but not without being scratched in favour of Brad Hunt for half the season.
The rest are solid role players and to the guy who told me I don't watch Flames games, I know Engelland was more than a goon in his final year with the Flames, it was hyperbole.

No real reason to keep reading past your last year analysis. You know players don't always remain static in their abilities/contributions right?

Corey Perry was a Hart winner! That means he must still be really good!
 

eviohh26

Registered User
Dec 19, 2017
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LA isn't that good.
Vegas is that good.
Try watching some Vegas hockey. I think its self explanatory.
Honestly I'm loving watching some Vegas hockey. They are great to watch.
 

Conbon

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Oct 4, 2016
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No real reason to keep reading past your last year analysis. You know players don't always remain static in their abilities/contributions right?

Corey Perry was a Hart winner! That means he must still be really good!
Not sure if you're being purposefully obtuse and I'm just getting trolled or not... fact is, this season came out of nowhere as the majority of these players showed no signs of doing what they did this year. I like your logic though "f*** the past, it tells us nothing" as if going into every year the outcomes will always be 100% random. Oops I fed the trolls.
 
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Sentinel

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Pretty big claim to say Karlsson is a number 1 center with only one good year on his resume with absolutely no pedigree to back it up riding a 23.4 shot percentage when he's averaged about 7 percent before this year. He could just as easily regress back to a 15 goal scorer next year and I wouldn't be surprised.

Everyone is saying Vegas is playing with a chip on their shoulder being "castoffs" and whatnot but what happens when they get paid big and they aren't castoffs anymore? Is Karlsson still a 1c shooting at all time great shooting percentages? Erik Haula still a viable top 6/PP option? I just find it hard to believe that Vegas will have sustained success with these guys. But if they do, I think it will greatly diminish many other players accomplishments in comparison.
That's why the game is played on ice, not on paper and in spreadsheets. Shooting percentages, VsX, Corsi, etc. mean, to quote Tommy Lee Jones, precisely dick.
 
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Connor McConnor

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Nov 22, 2017
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When the Oilers beat the Ducks and Kings back to back when both teams were still fighting for a playoff spot I thought to myself that this has to be one of two things:
1) The Oilers aren't that bad and proved we could have beaten playoff teams this year if certain things went right (PP, coaching, injuries etc.)
2) Those Cali teams are actually not good either (other than SJ, something about them looks different this year)

Turns out it was #2.
 
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Conbon

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That's why the game is played on ice, not paper and in spreadsheets. Shooting percentages, VsX, Corsi, etc. mean, to quote Tommy Lee Jones, precisely dick.
Yep no point in analyzing and trying to understand the game. f*** it lets just spin a wheel and pick players. When/if Karlsson scores under 20 next year I'm sure you'll say it was obvious because of his shot percentage.
 

supsens

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Oct 6, 2013
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That's why the game is played on ice, not paper and in spreadsheets. Shooting percentages, VsX, Corsi, etc. mean, to quote Tommy Lee Jones, precisely dick.

Realisticly everyone they picked should be average to above average giving them an above average team even if no one played super great.
 

Sentinel

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Yep no point in analyzing and trying to understand the game. **** it lets just spin a wheel and pick players. When/if Karlsson scores under 20 next year I'm sure you'll say it was obvious because of his shot percentage.
No, because I don't give a hoot about his or anyone else's shooting percentage. This overanalyzing and overreliance on statistics I find lame. This is why the teams play: to prove statistics, history, and naysayers wrong. I'm sure in 1980 Team USA was inferior to the Soviets in every metric imaginable.
 

Conbon

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No, because I don't give a hoot about his or anyone else's shooting percentage. This overanalyzing and overreliance on statistics I find lame. This is why the teams play: to prove statistics, history, and naysayers wrong. I'm sure in 1980 Team USA was inferior to the Soviets in every metric imaginable.
There's a reason why almost all those players besides Broten didn't have any sustained success. It was a small sample size, it makes for a great story because it was so unlikely. Vegas is different. All metrics point towards Vegas being a great team that isn't just lucky. They pass the eye test. People are taking this post as if I hate Vegas but they are one of my favourite teams to watch.

So they pass the eye test, the stats match up, it just defies all logic that Vegas could have managed to find all these hidden superstars when nothing they had done before hand indicated they were this good. This isn't just a hot streak, they've done it over 82 games now and are doing it in the playoffs, I'm just still trying to wrap my head around it.
 

Sentinel

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Because it's not about logic. Because anything can happen. Small sample sizes, big sample sizes... the game is played on ice. Not on paper.

You sound like an astrologist who is trying to explain why things don't happen in a way that stars predicted. Because one has little to do with another.

Oh, and Team USA had a great tournament. Not just one game.
 

Conbon

Registered User
Oct 4, 2016
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It's like talking to a brick wall. People like this that have no desire to understand things around them are the worst.

Edit: Honestly this post made me feel like a dick. Sorry dude I can respect your opinion.
 
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BlueDream

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Aug 30, 2011
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Teams were allowed to protect either seven forwards, three defenceman and a goaltender, or eight skaters (mixed) and one goaltender.

The Vegas Golden Knights selected, at best, the ninth best forwards available on each team, some of whom just didn't receive enough ice time but had the potential to do great things. They were savvy enough to select some young prospects who went unprotected. They also made a few trades so that certain unprotected players would not be taken, but in exchange the Knights received good value for leaving some of the other teams' unprotected players alone.

In theory, the Knights have a team comprised of four fast, skilled, gritty middle-six lines; some of those previously-underutilized "middle-six" players are blossoming with the extra ice time and offensive style of play, shining throughout the lineup. It's the epitome of a deep roster with talent throughout.

The Golden Knights aren't bogged down by overpaid free agents; many teams have overpaid players on the roster who take up too much cap space and force teams to dress a weaker bottom six. They Knights are extremely well-rounded in terms of cap spending.

None of the players they took at the expansion draft make more than $5 million -- their highest-paid forward is now Tomas Tatar at $5.3 million. None of their defencemen make more than $4 million. Marc-Andre Fleury is their highest-paid player at $5.75 million.

The Golden Knights could have gone awry at the expansion draft had they pursued overpaid veterans. Instead, they built a roster around underappreciated, young middle-six players, some of whom have had breakout years in an expanded role.

The traditional model is to overspend on the most talented players, and then have tiers of players: elite first line, good second line, mediocre bottom six. It's a figurative pyramid.

The Golden Knights' roster is built around four very good second lines. Their expenses are spread more evenly throughout the roster. It's a different model that teams should have adopted a long time ago -- difficult to maintain because once players young start to perform like first-line players, they become expensive in free agency; to maintain this model, the team would constantly need to trade their high-end veterans for on-the-cusp, younger players, or convince their top scorers to take a pay cut. However, it is a stronger model for a team than the traditional pyramid model. When too much money is tied up in three or four players, the team's success hinges on those players' performances; everyone on the Vegas team, meanwhile, has the skill to score goals and create offense. They attack in waves. Every line can put the puck in the net.

Vegas: four second lines.
Everybody else: one first line, one second line, one third line, one fourth line.
Nice long post about a false narrative.

They don’t have four 2nd lines.

Lol at you trying to make an argument that their 4th line is anything close to that...
 

BKIslandersFan

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Sep 29, 2017
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Even I underrated him as someone who said at the expansion draft that people were vastly underrating the roster.

He has been very solid in his own zone. It's rare that he breaks down and gives the other team a good chance.
And I thought he was just a hometown pick, so to speak. Since they couldn't get Jason Zucker, he was the 2nd best thing.
 
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