What does the consensus think on players like Adam fox who don't sign with draft team

How do u feel about Fox not signing with his draft team


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    379

McVespa99

Registered User
May 13, 2007
5,955
2,710
Totally ok in my opinion. He followed the cba and did what he felt was best for him. No player really owes any loyalty to the team that drafts him. Loyalty is formed over time with an organization. Even at that players get traded all the time so...
 

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
15,674
6,308
Sarnia, On
Have to disagree with op. He risked his career to play where he wanted.
Only in sports are you expected to train for a career and then only have one job offer you can take.

As a fan its inconvenient, As a human I can understand their desire for freedom.

Being drafted by an NHL team doesn't make you a slave. This is no different than being drafted and staying in Europe. We respect their right to live where they want but not North Americans.

Why?
 

TheMule93

On a mule rides the swindler
May 26, 2015
12,474
6,522
Ontario
its scummy, but its also a little unfair how long these players are bound to the team that drafts them
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
11,571
13,003
No issues with it if you're not trying to be sneaky.

If you don't want to go certain places just be straight up in your draft interview. The problem is guys want to increase the chances of being drafted, so they dont say anything so that more teams will be in on them. Then they renege and ghost back to college and try to hold teams hostage.

That's when it becomes a punk move. If you wanna go to a specific team, then man up and tell 31 teams you won't sign there. Won't do that though cause then they might not get drafted...or the team should just let him rot as long as possible, its their pick they can do what they want right?
 

TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
37,915
43,867
Nothing against Fox personally, but the CBA loop hole that allows drafted players to essentially force their way off the team and to become a free agent is dumb and needs to be fixed.
 

thadd

Oil4Life
Jun 9, 2007
26,727
2,735
Canada
It's not like Calgary has a reputation for destroying prospects and it's not like they've spent the last decade in the graveyard.
I think if you refuse to play for the team that drafts you, you should be forced back into the draft and you should have to wait 2-3 more years to hit UFA status.
 
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GAGLine

Registered User
Sep 17, 2007
23,613
19,742
Nothing against Fox personally, but the CBA loop hole that allows drafted players to essentially force their way off the team and to become a free agent is dumb and needs to be fixed.

It's not a loophole. It's an intended part of the rules. Players have rights too. The NHL doesn't just make these rules in a vacuum. They are negotiated with the NHLPA. Any changes to the rules would need to be approved by the NHLPA.

It's not like Calgary has a reputation for destroying prospects and it's not like they've spent the last decade in the graveyard.
I think if you refuse to play for the team that drafts you, you should be forced back into the draft and you should have to wait 2-3 more years to hit UFA status.

That's exactly how it works now. Tim Erixon didn't want to sign with Calgary either. Calgary had 2 years to sign him and if they failed to do so, he would have gone back into the draft. So instead, they traded him to the Rangers and the Rangers signed him. If Erixon had gone back into the draft and some other team selected him, he would again have to wait 2 years before he could become a UFA.

It's no different than for NCAA players, who have to wait 4+ years to become UFAs. It's easier for NCAA players to do it because they just stay in college for 4 years (though while risking a career ending injury), while a CHL player would have to re-enter the draft and then sign in the ECHL, AHL or in a European league, and wait until their rights expire (assuming another team drafted them).

Teams aren't obligated to sign the players they draft. Players aren't obligated to sign with the teams that draft them. It's a simple as that.
 

CraigsList

In Conroy We Trust
Apr 22, 2014
19,208
6,989
USA
Undecided. I see the argument for both sides.

It’s not like Calgary and Carolina got bent over, both got good players/prospects for Fox. I’d also rather have a player that WANTS to play for my team.
 

ClydeLee

Registered User
Mar 23, 2012
11,808
5,340
Have to disagree with op. He risked his career to play where he wanted.
Only in sports are you expected to train for a career and then only have one job offer you can take.

As a fan its inconvenient, As a human I can understand their desire for freedom.

Being drafted by an NHL team doesn't make you a slave. This is no different than being drafted and staying in Europe. We respect their right to live where they want but not North Americans.

Why?
What about the military. It's the same, you work for the NHL or the ARMY, other factors outside your choice, initially, dictate where you go and live.

Of course all the sports and military connections go hand in hand.
 

bleedblue94

Registered User
Jun 8, 2004
8,795
9,174
I think it is more of an indictment on the League, PA and CBA than it is on the player that uses the loophole. This isn't new, it could've and should've been addressed in the CBA and it wasn't.

No player or team is not going to take advantage of every/any loophole that presents them options, the same way no one is avoiding a loophole that helps them save money on their taxes...
 

SotasicA

Registered User
Aug 25, 2014
8,489
6,405
Nothing against Fox personally, but the CBA loop hole that allows drafted players to essentially force their way off the team and to become a free agent is dumb and needs to be fixed.
They sacrifice years off their career if they wait for the draft rights to expire. If you're any good, the money lost is in the millions. Because you still have to sign an ELC, and you still have to do your years of service before entering free agency (restricted & unrestricted). Thus the money lost comes off your free agent years. Not many are willing to lose those good earning years.
 

Yung Rotini

6 Summers
May 18, 2013
18,333
938
Penticton, BC
I'd love to have him as a Flames fan obviously but it's not like he broke any rules to avoid signing with Calgary. It's his life, if he thinks NY is best for him (and I mean, it's working out pretty well) then good for him.
 

heretik27

Registered User
Apr 18, 2013
8,978
6,338
Winnipeg
No issues with it if you're not trying to be sneaky.

If you don't want to go certain places just be straight up in your draft interview. The problem is guys want to increase the chances of being drafted, so they dont say anything so that more teams will be in on them. Then they renege and ghost back to college and try to hold teams hostage.

That's when it becomes a punk move. If you wanna go to a specific team, then man up and tell 31 teams you won't sign there. Won't do that though cause then they might not get drafted...or the team should just let him rot as long as possible, its their pick they can do what they want right?

Every draft eligible player should be concerned primarily with their own future. Why would you tell a potential future employer during an interview you aren't certain you'll work with them? These players have zero obligation to come out up front and state they don't intend to play for a certain team because you're absolutely right, they may not get drafted by the team(s) they desire. Unless you have very strong feelings against a certain franchise why would you bring it up? Also, it makes no sense to hold onto a player when they aren't going to play for you out of spite. For one, that would only cause other draft eligible players/UFA's concern about how the franchise is run. For two, at least they can trade the RFA rights for an asset that would be potentially beneficial to them, even if it's essentially to a disadvantage during negotiations it's better than having nothing.
 

rangersfansince08

Registered User
Oct 8, 2019
5,420
4,717
Every draft eligible player should be concerned primarily with their own future. Why would you tell a potential future employer during an interview you aren't certain you'll work with them? These players have zero obligation to come out up front and state they don't intend to play for a certain team because you're absolutely right, they may not get drafted by the team(s) they desire. Unless you have very strong feelings against a certain franchise why would you bring it up? Also, it makes no sense to hold onto a player when they aren't going to play for you out of spite. For one, that would only cause other draft eligible players/UFA's concern about how the franchise is run. For two, at least they can trade the RFA rights for an asset that would be potentially beneficial to them, even if it's essentially to a disadvantage during negotiations it's better than having nothing.

Like I said before nobody really gives a crap about guys like Vesey, Kerfoot, Butcher. The majority of these guys resemble those players more than they do Fox.
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
11,571
13,003
Every draft eligible player should be concerned primarily with their own future. Why would you tell a potential future employer during an interview you aren't certain you'll work with them? These players have zero obligation to come out up front and state they don't intend to play for a certain team because you're absolutely right, they may not get drafted by the team(s) they desire. Unless you have very strong feelings against a certain franchise why would you bring it up? Also, it makes no sense to hold onto a player when they aren't going to play for you out of spite. For one, that would only cause other draft eligible players/UFA's concern about how the franchise is run. For two, at least they can trade the RFA rights for an asset that would be potentially beneficial to them, even if it's essentially to a disadvantage during negotiations it's better than having nothing.

Unless you have very strong feelings against a certain franchise, why wouldn't you sign there? The strong feelings are obviously in place prior to being drafted there, or you would sign the ELC...yes? I feel like the majority of your questions can be flipped on the player and have the same affect.

Why would that cause any kind of dysfunction with other draft eligible players? The majority of draft eligible players just want to end up somewhere and don't have some form of entitlement about who they sign with. Yes they can trade for a beneficial asset, but that doesn't mean they should be in a hurry to dump the player for whatever scraps they can get. The Oilers didn't dump Poolparty for nothing, they just waited it out. If he wants to play overseas for 3 years he can do that, if these college guys want to play in college and waste 4 years of earning potential, they can do that.

Trying to equate ELC players to the job market you and I exist in makes no sense. I don't apply for jobs that I have no intention of taking, do you? That's a waste of my time and the employers. I'm not going to apply to work at McDonalds just to have an interview and be like, "thanks for the interview, but I never intended on actually working for McDonalds, just wanted to do an interview for fun"...Note that this is not the same as doing and interview and finding out they want to pay way below competitive wages, then turning the job offer down at that point. I still had the intention of taking the job assuming it fit my needs. ELC players do not have this distinction because the ELC is the same for everyone, so there are no "better" wage offers.

lastly, if the job market is totally messed up like during Covid, then yes you may have plenty of people that are overqualified for jobs, applying for whatever they can in order to make money. Again this is not comparable to what we are talking about, because they are willing to take any job that comes up in the short term and aren't signing a 3year contract, but employers know this.. you can tell by someone's resume whether they are more likely to stay or not. The counter is that employers aren't often keen on hiring severely overqualified people like engineers to flip burgers, because they will obviously leave as soon as the market is corrected. Employers are also less likely to hire someone how has had 5 jobs in 5 years, because they will obviously just peace out ASAP. The average Joe like you and I rarely sign 3 year contracts for our entry level positions, and we have probation which doesn't really exist within the confines of the CBA. The closest you get to that in the NHL is being waived, but you still end up with a nice AHL salary which is guaranteed.

I really don't see the comparisons you are trying to make here. These guys want the safety net of being approached and drafted by everyone, but then want to turn around and tell 90% of the teams to piss off and send them where they actually want to go. They have this right obviously, but it's not some commendable action because they "should look out for themselves". The CBA provides a hell of a lot of security compared to what everyone else has to deal with in the real world.

TL;DR - This is not comparable to the job market you and I operate in and we don't apply for jobs we have no intention of taking, unless you are some person that just likes to do interviews for shi*s and giggles. Hiding your true intentions to maximize offers, but then hold teams hostage because you won't sign since you knew you didn't want to go there is not commendable. The NHL does not need a bunch of Kevin Durant types running around. EDIT - just because they have to right to do this, doesn't mean we need to respect it. If I get to a door before you, I probably have the right to walk through it before you close it in your face forcing you to open it, still not a good look.

ASIDE:
I actually look at this the same way as people who apply for jobs in order to get a better offer, then go back to their employer and say - pay me this or I walk. Then when they get their raise, they stay. So it basically just f***s over the place they applied at, which was actually interested in hiring them. Why don't you just go to your employer and ask for more money, if you don't get it, leave. Rather than trying to manipulate a bunch of people. If you need to manipulate your employer to get a raise, why the hell are you still wanting to work there????
 
Last edited:

heretik27

Registered User
Apr 18, 2013
8,978
6,338
Winnipeg
I think you're overestimating how frequent a player good enough to warrant consideration from a large pool of franchises and wants to pick and choose where they land comes around. It hasn't happened very often. Not to mention in regards to your other example nobody should be straight up leaving their job without another one lined up or better offer. I literally just did something similar by asking MTS if they'd be willing to match an Internet/TV bundle that Shaw was offering me because their service, quite frankly wasn't worth what they (MTS) wanted to charge me for it. I got myself a great deal and switched to Shaw because MTS wasn't able to compete with the offer. I saved money and got better Internet speeds. I feel like it's pretty common to do this. You're looking out for your own best interests.

I think the biggest example is Lindros not wanting to play for Quebec. It's been quite a while since then, and nobody near that profile level has tried it to my knowledge since then. Like I said, I don't think most players have such strong feelings towards a franchise that they would refuse to play for them. You might have players like Roslovic that view their situation on a team as unfavorable and ask for a trade out to get a better opportunity, and for that I really don't have a problem. Yeah, not telling a team you never had any intention of playing a single game for them would be a shitty thing to do, but does it really happen? I feel like there's just too many other factors that come into play after a player is drafted that affect their career decisions. Has anyone publicly ever stated they never intended to play a single game for the team they were drafted by? (genuinely curious)
 

snowkiddin

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Feb 26, 2016
16,438
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I’m on the fence. Ultimately I think players should be allowed to play wherever they want (just like if there’s a job opportunity for you in another city you should take it if that’s where you want to go) but it puts certain teams at a disadvantage.

I like the idea some folks have had of putting something in the CBA to combat this a bit.
 

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
15,674
6,308
Sarnia, On
What about the military. It's the same, you work for the NHL or the ARMY, other factors outside your choice, initially, dictate where you go and live.

Of course all the sports and military connections go hand in hand.
Bizarre comparison. I mean there are 6 branches of military service available, service with allied forces and countless civilian opportunities all open to an officer cadet grad or west point grad.

The fact you used the most controlling institution in the world as an example really adds to the point nicely even if wrong.
 

Ezpz

No mad pls
Apr 16, 2013
14,942
11,113
It defeats the purpose of the draft if NCAA players are the only ones able to use this loophole; which benefits American teams more often than not. Players like Dubois should simply be allowed to sign with the Habs after completing a few years of junior--that'd be fair right?
 
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