Player Discussion What do we have in J.T. Miller?

[MikeK]

Too soon to assess the trade. I really like Miller but if the pick ends up being a lottery pick it’s a disaster in the making. If we make the playoffs in the next two years then it’s probably a fair deal.

I find it highly unlikely that the Canucks are a lottery team between now and the next 2 seasons. Other teams have gotten older and are now starting to regress while the Canucks have too many good young players about to come into their own. There are some really bad teams in the West this year. A few months ago I said this team was likely a bubble team and feel the same way today. I will be very surprised if that pick going TB's way is anything lower than 16-22 range. If that ends up being the case this was a worthy trade.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I find it highly unlikely that the Canucks are a lottery team between now and the next 2 seasons. Other teams have gotten older and are now starting to regress while the Canucks have too many good young players about to come into their own. There are some really bad teams in the West this year. A few months ago I said this team was likely a bubble team and feel the same way today. I will be very surprised if that pick going TB's way is anything lower than 16-22 range. If that ends up being the case this was a worthy trade.

I tend to agree but injuries etc are the wildcard.
I also recall Leaf fans thinking that way when they did the Kessel trade which ended up costing them Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. The one difference is that we have two years to make the playoffs which should protect the Canucks somewhat from a bad season due to lots of injuries etc.
I just don’t think that we can ignore the potential downside if this does end up being a lottery pick.

 

[MikeK]

I tend to agree but injuries etc are the wildcard.
I also recall Leaf fans thinking that way when they did the Kessel trade which ended up costing them Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. The one difference is that we have two years to make the playoffs which should protect the Canucks somewhat from a bad season due to lots of injuries etc.
I just don’t think that we can ignore the potential downside if this does end up being a lottery pick.

Oh, no doubt it was a risky trade for a team whose missed the playoffs the past 5 years. But if you look back at most teams who take that next step they did so making similar type trades. It is rare when a team builds a playoff team solely on the draft. We needed to make this type of trade to compliment the good young pieces we have drafted. Anything can and usually does happen but I do think we're a bubble team right up until the final horn of the season.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I’ve liked JT for a number of years now ( hockey pool points ) he was a great sleeper pick for me over and over again

Am I way off base if I see a Mark Recchi clone out there when I see him play closer than I have in the past, he seems to do it all, skates super hard, plays big in front of the net, dishes the puck, he’s tough

I’m making a bold prediction ....... 70 points

 

[Diamonddog01]

I'll admit I like the player more than I thought I would, and I was very critical of the trade when it went down. Part of that was the concern about trading away a lottery pick a la the Leafs back in 09, but the other part is that the best possible outcome for this trade is that it's fair. The worst outcome is disastrous. In general (although not always possible) a trade should be fair from the outset, with the best possible outcome being a steal.

 

[Raistlin]

I'll admit I like the player more than I thought I would, and I was very critical of the trade when it went down. Part of that was the concern about trading away a lottery pick a la the Leafs back in 09, but the other part is that the best possible outcome for this trade is that it's fair. The worst outcome is disastrous. In general (although not always possible) a trade should be fair from the outset, with the best possible outcome being a steal.

So far, it looks like JB took a risk and there is a decent chance he will luck out, which means its still not a great trade from a risk management point of view, but could end up being a decent trade afterall.... I'm still not comfortable with JB making trades, he's too confident in a skill he's not good at. Pro scouting.

 

[GetFocht]

Tanner Pearson and JT Miller are solid trades by Benning.

 

[frozenrubber]

I’ve liked JT for a number of years now ( hockey pool points ) he was a great sleeper pick for me over and over again

Am I way off base if I see a Mark Recchi clone out there when I see him play closer than I have in the past, he seems to do it all, skates super hard, plays big in front of the net, dishes the puck, he’s tough

I’m making a bold prediction ....... 70 points

I'll take that and give you 2:1 odds on 70 points, interested?

 

[Cogburn]

Based on last nights sample, a 328 point player. Am I doing this right?

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Tanner Pearson has been back to his old self if not better, from the game we acquired him till now. I have no idea what happened to him last year with LA and Pittsburgh but he’s been great for us.

JT Miller is exactly the type of winger Petey and Boes need. It’s like they made him in a lab, he has soft hands in tight, big body for screening the goalie, high hockey IQ, great in the cycle, and has enough finish that he’ll still pot 20+ but he’s going to be an assist machine with those two.

 

[krutovsdonut]

If we're getting technical, there is another way to look at it as well.

I'll use eBay for example. Many items are up for auction, but they also have a "Buy It Now" option where you pay a set asking price to avoid the bidding all together and guarantee yourself acquisition of said item. In this case Benning did not want to risk losing Miller in a bidding war, as any other team may have selected to pay the full asking price (Buy It Now price) at any time and Benning would have been out of luck. There is a chance that Benning could have acquired Miller for less, but in going that route there is also a chance he could be wearing another jersey right now. Hence, Benning decided to pay the price rather than partaking in what would essentially be an auction for Miller.

Now, why he elected to go that route is anyone's guess. It could be desperation to make a move and save his job, many of the more vocal anti-Benning posters have already voiced this opinion. It could also be that Benning saw a much higher upside in Miller and he deemed the asking price as completely reasonable; in this scenario Benning would be basing his value more on what Miller will be this year rather than what he was last year. I personally think it was a certainty that we were going to move a 1st for a player this year or next, it was just a matter of what player we acquired. I am happy that we took a 26 year old forward with upside due to circumstances rather than some of the options we could have went with, and so far it seems to be an excellent fit.

interesting analogy. i'm a collector and i shop on ebay now and then. the stuff i collect is popular enough that there are never deals on properly described auctions. the best deals i get are buy it now auctions that i spot early. it can be fun looking carefully at the listing photos twice and reading the description twice then checking the seller history and realizing there is nothing wrong with the seller or item and the buy it now price is way under what they normally sell for.

 

[F A N]

Oh, no doubt it was a risky trade for a team whose missed the playoffs the past 5 years. But if you look back at most teams who take that next step they did so making similar type trades. It is rare when a team builds a playoff team solely on the draft. We needed to make this type of trade to compliment the good young pieces we have drafted. Anything can and usually does happen but I do think we're a bubble team right up until the final horn of the season.

Exactly. This reminds me a bit of the Linden trade where Linden helped solidify the lineup and helped the Canucks get back into the playoffs.

 

[MS]

As I said at the time of the trade, Miller is a good player and will be a good addition, and if the pick was properly protected (#1 pick, becomes a #2 if it's a lottery pick to lock in into the 16-45 range) then it would have been a good deal.

But when you're a non-playoff team you simply don't trade unprotected #1 picks for any reason. Period. If this trade works out well, it's because they got away with reckless management.

 

[Zippgunn]

I can't really bring myself to give Benning the benefit of the doubt in a negotiation.

Well that's YOUR problem (and the problem of a lot of other posters here). Your hatred of Benning renders you incapable of rational thought.

 

[clay]

As I said at the time of the trade, Miller is a good player and will be a good addition, and if the pick was properly protected (#1 pick, becomes a #2 if it's a lottery pick to lock in into the 16-45 range) then it would have been a good deal.

But when you're a non-playoff team you simply don't trade unprotected #1 picks for any reason. Period. If this trade works out well, it's because they got away with reckless management.

No guarantee that TB would have accepted for a protected pick, but still reckless nonetheless. A GM who is clearly fighting for his job is the only rational explanation.

 

[mathonwy]

Well that's YOUR problem (and the problem of a lot of other posters here). Your hatred of Benning renders you incapable of rational thought.

Instead of telling other posters what THEIR problems are, you should look in the mirror and consider your own abnormal fixation to continually defend the worst Canuck coach in recent history.

You continuing to defend WD destroys every single bit of your credibility here and implies (at least to me) that you didn’t watch Canucks hockey back then all that closely.

 

[F A N]

As I said at the time of the trade, Miller is a good player and will be a good addition, and if the pick was properly protected (#1 pick, becomes a #2 if it's a lottery pick to lock in into the 16-45 range) then it would have been a good deal.

But when you're a non-playoff team you simply don't trade unprotected #1 picks for any reason. Period. If this trade works out well, it's because they got away with reckless management.

Huh? By definition they traded a protected pick.

 

[MS]

Huh? By definition they traded a protected pick.

For 1 year. If we miss the playoffs this year, the 2nd year won't be protected.

 

[timw33]

Huh? By definition they traded a protected pick.

It's a conditional where it could be a top-5/top-10 pick. That's not a protected pick.

 

[Zippgunn]

Instead of telling other posters what THEIR problems are, you should look in the mirror and consider your own abnormal fixation to continually defend the worst Canuck coach in recent history.

You continuing to defend WD destroys every single bit of your credibility here and implies (at least to me) that you didn’t watch Canucks hockey back then all that closely.

More hyperbole about WD. Remember it isn't me that keeps bringing him up in literally every thread on this board; I simply correct mistakes and outright lies about the man. Remember when he tried to make Horvat a 4th liner? Neither do I but yesterday somebody accused him of that. He is brought up (negatively, naturally) in literally every single game day thread or thread that even remotely discusses coaching. I defend him because I think he's actually a decent coach, not the best coach in the world, but a good one and it bothers me how so many fans of this team have an almost pathological hatred of the guy, often resorting to childish schoolyard-bully quality insults (the nickname of "twitchy" which is unbelievably low class when you consider his medical issues). Also if he is "the worst Canuck coach in recent history" how did he get 101 points with a team that was around the same quality as the one that our current coach can't seem to break 82 points with? Board rules prevent me from saying what I really think of the "twitchy" crowd but believe me if we were to meet in person it would be VERY different...

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I’m making a bold prediction ....... 70 points

What makes you think he would score more than with Kucherov and Stamkos??

 

[bandwagonesque]

It's a conditional where it could be a top-5/top-10 pick. That's not a protected pick.

In any North American sports league, picks that transfer in later years depending on team performance are usually referred to as protected, as are picks that convert to other picks in the same year or later years.

 

[Josepho]

Well that's YOUR problem (and the problem of a lot of other posters here). Your hatred of Benning renders you incapable of rational thought.

It's not this blind hatred of Benning that makes me feel this way. It's the fact that there are multiple of these types of snippets from people close to the organization.





He clearly has the tendency to get things done more quickly, which may be good in certain cases, but I don't think the JT Miller trade is an example of this because it showed a complete lack of understanding leverage.

And this is coming from someone who was probably one of the bigger defenders of this acquisition, especially compared to a lot of the Anti-Benning crowd.

 

[WHISTLERNATE]

It's not this blind hatred of Benning that makes me feel this way. It's the fact that there are multiple of these types of snippets from people close to the organization.





He clearly has the tendency to get things done more quickly, which may be good in certain cases, but I don't think the JT Miller trade is an example of this because it showed a complete lack of understanding leverage.

And this is coming from someone who was probably one of the bigger defenders of this acquisition, especially compared to a lot of the Anti-Benning crowd.

End of the day I would way rather take a chance on JT miller putting up 50-60 points on our first line and helping this young core to push for the playoffs than wait for our 2021 first to take 2-3 years to make an impact.

Having a solid top 6 forward locked up on a good contract for his prime years is worth more to me than a possible 10-15 pick (with 3% odds to be better than that) that may be as good in 5 years as Miller currently is now.

 

[Zippgunn]

It's not this blind hatred of Benning that makes me feel this way. It's the fact that there are multiple of these types of snippets from people close to the organization.





He clearly has the tendency to get things done more quickly, which may be good in certain cases, but I don't think the JT Miller trade is an example of this because it showed a complete lack of understanding leverage.

And this is coming from someone who was probably one of the bigger defenders of this acquisition, especially compared to a lot of the Anti-Benning crowd.

Look I'm no defender of Benning; I think he's less than great as well. But when "Benning doing his job" is taken to mean "Benning getting a terrific deal on a player" it is, to me at least, disingenuous. The thread asks what do we have in Miller, not how can you parse this trade in order to crap all over Benning. We apparently have a good one in this guy and whether or not we fleeced Tampa in the trade is neither here nor there. We needed a player that would make us better in our top 6 and we got him, end of story. It gets really tedious when literally every single thread gets hijacked by the "...but Benning" crowd; posting rumours "alleging" stupid behavior by Benning simply satisfies an agenda that way too many posters seem to feel needs reiterating on a nearly daily basis. We get it, to these miserable people he can do no right; even if Miller gets 100 points these same people will still be saying "yeah, but we could have got him for cheaper". Gets repetitious after awhile...