What did this year really tell us?

[Shaman464]

Vrana 11 games played on awful Detroit: 8 goals 3 assists Mantha: 14 games played 4 goals 4 assists Everybody called me stupid when i said that Mantha is nowhere near as talented as Vrana. He can be legit superstar with Detroit and is already our best player.

I would wait until next season to start making crow2go for people to eat.

 

[dragonballgtz]

This year told me that this team has pretty much no current player I would put list as a true "core" player.

Yep, which is just sad. When Holland left I remember reading a few articles about how he left us some good prospects and base blah blah blah... yeah, about that.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I don't think Detroit's performance changed the timeline as much as COVID did.

Yzerman pretty clearly built the team to suck last year and this year. His contract structures were clearly set up to give him a whole lot of room to move in the upcoming season, but I think with most teams feeling pressure to fit under the COVID cap, and the opportunity at three big-time centers in 2022, he's going to once again weaponize cap space for picks and prospects. Also, it was pretty evident that Seider was going to be on the team this year, and likely Veleno as well. COVID prevented both from happening, minus a cup of coffee for Veleno.

Going forward:

Larkin - If he's not on the team it'll be because he left in UFA. I do not see Yzerman trading him. I just don't. People forget that Detroit sucked for several years while Yzerman was captain, and didn't win his first Cup until he was 32. Larkin isn't nearly the player Yzerman was, but he can still be Landeskog type captain where he's the clear leader but not even top 3 on the team.

Bertuzzi - Back injury leaves things up in the air a little bit, but I don't see Yzerman trading him unless he gets blown away with an offer. We know from watching him draft that Yzerman loves the guys that have a high compete level. Bertuzzi is already rare in that he's an agitator who can drive offense, but he's also one of those players that can completely change the momentum of the game and energize his teammates. That's a quality you don't teach or develop, and one that you need when you're in the playoffs.

Vrana - I think people read a little too much into his success here and forget that a third of his production was in one game. My sense is still that Vrana gets moved similar to Mantha, if not in this deadline in the next one, but I could be wrong.

Zadina - The poor guy has never had a steady spot in the NHL. He just bounces between linemates and is now handcuffed to a defense-only system. I think long-term, this season will actually be good for him. He looked super-well rounded. If he can tap back into that offensive potential, I think he can be a poor man's (30-30) Mark Stone or Marian Hossa.

Fabbri - He's been good when he's played, but his time is coming. He's a cheap option that'd be a great addition to boost a team's 3rd line going into the playoffs. I expect to see him moved at the deadline, probably with retention.

Hronek - Will be massively relieved by not having top defensive responsibilities going forward. You might get to see his offensive numbers increase simply because he's getting OZ starts and Seider's getting DZ starts. May not happen immediately, but in the coming years, that's inevitably where we're headed. I don't see him getting moved.... Unless we draft Brandt Clarke.

As for the U23 guys:

Seider - Makes the team out of camp. People need to be realistic on their expectations though. It's incredibly possible that he plays safe hockey while he feels out the league. ESPECIALLY if we're still running Blashill and Blashill is still running a defense-heavy system. It's also hard for him to join the rush on a team that sucks at offensive zone entry. Seider plays two very different games. He can turn on the offensive switch when he wants to and just as easily shut it off and play lock-down defense. I mean that in a good way, but I think there's a strong chance you see lock-down defense Seider to start his career.

Raymond - Don't see him getting more than 9 games. Frolunda is a good club, but their emphasis on using all four lines kinda held him back. He can benefit from being, "The guy", offensively in GR for a year, getting top line minutes and big PP time while he gets acclimated with smaller ice.

Berggren - Also don't see him getting more than 9 games. And people need to be careful about letting their expectations get out of hand with Berggren. It's probably a lofty expectation to even suggest that he becomes a new Nyquist, and we should be happy if he does.

Veleno - I see him as a 3C, long-term, but that's not a bad thing. He's not a Darren Helm 3C, he's well-rounded AND actually has scoring talent.

Rasmussen - I don't see him being a 2C either, which begs the question of, does Detroit play him on the wing, or do they trade him or Veleno? I don't think you get much out of either in terms of futures, but I do think they could be a valuable piece in a package for something bigger.

Svechnikov - Has no future here, and it's been clear for quite some time now.

Cholowski - I don't see much of a future for him either. Guy is a complete dope when it comes to playing in his own end. He's like a poor man's Brendan Smith, and Brendan Smith sucks.

Smith - Deserved to stay up. He's never gonna be an offensive force, but he's absolutely a guy you need on your team to beat somebody's ass when they come after your top forwards.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

I don't think Detroit's performance changed the timeline as much as COVID did.

Yzerman pretty clearly built the team to suck last year and this year. His contract structures were clearly set up to give him a whole lot of room to move in the upcoming season, but I think with most teams feeling pressure to fit under the COVID cap, and the opportunity at three big-time centers in 2022, he's going to once again weaponize cap space for picks and prospects. Also, it was pretty evident that Seider was going to be on the team this year, and likely Veleno as well. COVID prevented both from happening, minus a cup of coffee for Veleno.

Going forward:

Larkin - If he's not on the team it'll be because he left in UFA. I do not see Yzerman trading him. I just don't. People forget that Detroit sucked for several years while Yzerman was captain, and didn't win his first Cup until he was 32. Larkin isn't nearly the player Yzerman was, but he can still be Landeskog type captain where he's the clear leader but not even top 3 on the team.

Bertuzzi - Back injury leaves things up in the air a little bit, but I don't see Yzerman trading him unless he gets blown away with an offer. We know from watching him draft that Yzerman loves the guys that have a high compete level. Bertuzzi is already rare in that he's an agitator who can drive offense, but he's also one of those players that can completely change the momentum of the game and energize his teammates. That's a quality you don't teach or develop, and one that you need when you're in the playoffs.

Vrana - I think people read a little too much into his success here and forget that a third of his production was in one game. My sense is still that Vrana gets moved similar to Mantha, if not in this deadline in the next one, but I could be wrong.

Zadina - The poor guy has never had a steady spot in the NHL. He just bounces between linemates and is now handcuffed to a defense-only system. I think long-term, this season will actually be good for him. He looked super-well rounded. If he can tap back into that offensive potential, I think he can be a poor man's (30-30) Mark Stone or Marian Hossa.

Fabbri - He's been good when he's played, but his time is coming. He's a cheap option that'd be a great addition to boost a team's 3rd line going into the playoffs. I expect to see him moved at the deadline, probably with retention.

Hronek - Will be massively relieved by not having top defensive responsibilities going forward. You might get to see his offensive numbers increase simply because he's getting OZ starts and Seider's getting DZ starts. May not happen immediately, but in the coming years, that's inevitably where we're headed. I don't see him getting moved.... Unless we draft Brandt Clarke.

As for the U23 guys:

Seider - Makes the team out of camp. People need to be realistic on their expectations though. It's incredibly possible that he plays safe hockey while he feels out the league. ESPECIALLY if we're still running Blashill and Blashill is still running a defense-heavy system. It's also hard for him to join the rush on a team that sucks at offensive zone entry. Seider plays two very different games. He can turn on the offensive switch when he wants to and just as easily shut it off and play lock-down defense. I mean that in a good way, but I think there's a strong chance you see lock-down defense Seider to start his career.

Raymond - Don't see him getting more than 9 games. Frolunda is a good club, but their emphasis on using all four lines kinda held him back. He can benefit from being, "The guy", offensively in GR for a year, getting top line minutes and big PP time while he gets acclimated with smaller ice.

Berggren - Also don't see him getting more than 9 games. And people need to be careful about letting their expectations get out of hand with Berggren. It's probably a lofty expectation to even suggest that he becomes a new Nyquist, and we should be happy if he does.

Veleno - I see him as a 3C, long-term, but that's not a bad thing. He's not a Darren Helm 3C, he's well-rounded AND actually has scoring talent.

Rasmussen - I don't see him being a 2C either, which begs the question of, does Detroit play him on the wing, or do they trade him or Veleno? I don't think you get much out of either in terms of futures, but I do think they could be a valuable piece in a package for something bigger.

Svechnikov - Has no future here, and it's been clear for quite some time now.

Cholowski - I don't see much of a future for him either. Guy is a complete dope when it comes to playing in his own end. He's like a poor man's Brendan Smith, and Brendan Smith sucks.

Smith - Deserved to stay up. He's never gonna be an offensive force, but he's absolutely a guy you need on your team to beat somebody's ass when they come after your top forwards.

i absolutely agree with stone-zadina comparison. I've watched best defensive plays by mark stone week ago and those are exactly the same plays Zadina did this year.

 

[DetroitRed]

If anything comes of Mantha for us now, it will be because Yzerman salvaged the situation. And I don't think we know yet if Stevie was indeed able to "salvage" the situation because part of it could come down to who is drafted as well as what happens with Vrana and Mantha now, but I feel like Stevie made the correct move or the move he had to make. So, we learned that if anything significant comes out of our investment in Mantha, it will be because of Steve.

We learned that Larkin is possibly even more sensitive than we thought, or that, anyway, something is affecting his playing.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Told me Blashill is a better coach than most thought. He brought the team to a better record than just about anyone expected.
Having said that, his coaching style neutered the hell out of any offense, creativity or entertainment. Talented young offensive players were held in check and really showed only brief glimpses of what they are capable of. Useless to squeeze out wins and bore your fans to death when losing is more useful to your future.

Yzerman needs to go for broke next season. Hire a free-wheeling new coach who will bring the team and our young players out of their offensive coma. I've stayed on the fence with Blash - how can you properly judge his coaching with such a bad roster? Well after this season I'm done with him. He may be capable of scraping out a few more wins than expected, but at what cost?

 

[deca guard]

- rasmountain is a very unique and valuable player even though hes not going to be high scoring . that size with very good wheels , ruggedness , sufficient hands and extreme determination is somebody that brings alot to a team . the guys got leader written all over him , him and larkin set the tone for this team and im ecstatic with this pick . his worth doesnt show up in stats buts more valuable than many higher scorers
- zadinas a very hard worker and smart defender , hes another hustling determinied player like razz and larks
- hronek is on n off with the puck at times making iffy decissions , though that will improve with experience plus the improvement of the teammates around him . but he always works hard ands a rugged player for his size , two way dman that helps all 200' = very valuable
- vrana flies and has wicked snipe talent , great trade that brings important excitement to this team

 

[FMichael]

- rasmountain is a very unique and valuable player even though hes not going to be high scoring . that size with very good wheels , ruggedness , sufficient hands and extreme determination is somebody that brings alot to a team . the guys got leader written all over him , him and larkin set the tone for this team and im ecstatic with this pick . his worth doesnt show up in stats buts more valuable than many higher scorers
- zadinas a very hard worker and smart defender , hes another hustling determinied player like razz and larks
- hronek is on n off with the puck at times making iffy decissions , though that will improve with experience plus the improvement of the teammates around him . but he always works hard ands a rugged player for his size , two way dman that helps all 200' = very valuable
- vrana flies and has wicked snipe talent , great trade that brings important excitement to this team

Rasmountain could become our Brian Boyle.

 

[deca guard]

Rasmountain could become our Brian Boyle.

i forgot that i was calling him K2 after the mountain . K2 has joined 2Z as my two fave wings = old time nhler's , not to mention larks and zadina are two more hustling hard workers . this team is developing a great culture

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

i forgot that i was calling him K2 after the mountain . K2 has joined 2Z as my two fave wings = old time nhler's , not to mention larks and zadina are two more hustling hard workers . this team is developing a great culture

You know what is an even better team culture? A winning team culture.

 

[Shaman464]

You know what is an even better team culture? A winning team culture.

What does that even mean? There’s no coach on Earth that gets this team to a better result than how this team finished. That is as close to a winning culture this team could hope for.

 

[golffuul]

You know what is an even better team culture? A winning team culture.

This kind of culture comes from learning to do two things: 1) Show up to work every day (professionalism) 2) Never stop working hard, even when you're not winning.

I think "competitive desire" is a quaint term, but is thrown about with not a lot of explanation to it. It's almost cliche-like in professional sports parlance. I also tend to think it's used as a crutch for players who don't like to lose, but don't understand the level of work ethic needed to get there. The desire to compete requires a consistent work ethic that requires a great deal of sacrifice to attain the goals you set for yourself. Some players rest on their laurels and think they can put in "x" amount of time per day and that is all they need to succeed and can't be bothered to do more than that amount because they feel that their optimal play-level can't be achieved otherwise. Versus a player that will do whatever it takes for a team to succeed. I think of a player like Matthieu Perrault. A guy who led the QMJHL in scoring for the 2007-08 season, but resigned himself to playing whatever role is necessary for his team to win. Every game is just maximum effort from that guy in whatever position they need him to play. That is the kind of effort that produces a winning culture. And I think a number of players stepped up to show that they are willing to do whatever it takes for the team to succeed, this year. So that's a big step over the last couple of years. Now we just need more of that.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

This kind of culture comes from learning to do two things: 1) Show up to work every day (professionalism) 2) Never stop working hard, even when you're not winning.

I think "competitive desire" is a quaint term, but is thrown about with not a lot of explanation to it. It's almost cliche-like in professional sports parlance. I also tend to think it's used as a crutch for players who don't like to lose, but don't understand the level of work ethic needed to get there. The desire to compete requires a consistent work ethic that requires a great deal of sacrifice to attain the goals you set for yourself. Some players rest on their laurels and think they can put in "x" amount of time per day and that is all they need to succeed and can't be bothered to do more than that amount because they feel that their optimal play-level can't be achieved otherwise. Versus a player that will do whatever it takes for a team to succeed. I think of a player like Matthieu Perrault. A guy who led the QMJHL in scoring for the 2007-08 season, but resigned himself to playing whatever role is necessary for his team to win. Every game is just maximum effort from that guy in whatever position they need him to play. That is the kind of effort that produces a winning culture. And I think a number of players stepped up to show that they are willing to do whatever it takes for the team to succeed, this year. So that's a big step over the last couple of years. Now we just need more of that.

How much of that was the massive amount of brand new personnel on the team versus the coach? Blashill has been the coach since 2015 and this is the first season that we're seeing Detroit truly play like plucky underachievers.

I think the improvements has way more to do with guys like Ryan, Vrana, Stecher, Merrill, Staal, Panik and the other new guys being better players that played in other systems and on winning teams prior to Detroit.

 

[Dotter]

No they didn't. They were average at best. They both need a big step up to be important contributors on this team. As for Larkin, he's been meh the last several years.

Absolutely they did. They did everything + more than you could ever ask of them. Both Zadina and Rasmussen get an A. Zadina, like most rookies (who never even played a half season before), lost a little steam down the stretch, but he was still working hard. Ras was a horse.

Rookies aren't expected to win the Rocket Richard award. Stop living in a fantasy land and bring your expectations back down to reality.

 

[golffuul]

How much of that was the massive amount of brand new personnel on the team versus the coach? Blashill has been the coach since 2015 and this is the first season that we're seeing Detroit truly play like plucky underachievers.

I think the improvements has way more to do with guys like Ryan, Vrana, Stecher, Merrill, Staal, Panik and the other new guys being better players that played in other systems and on winning teams prior to Detroit.

I agree. And I don’t think it can be overstated enough how much of a difference having Greiss vs. Howard makes. Coaching only gets you so far, the players on the ice make all the difference. And sometimes players perform well despite the efforts of the coaches. I think Blashill might be a good player’s coach and he knows how to coach low-event hockey. But, for me, it remains to be seen whether he is capable of coaching at a higher level. We just don’t have any reason to believe one way or another. I just feel like if you are trying to move in a different direction, it would make more sense to do that with a different voice. Which is why I am so high on Lambert, because you lose none of the defensive aspects and gain all of the experience of having worked with players like Ovechkin and Barzal.

 

[GMR]

Absolutely they did. They did everything + more than you could ever ask of them. Both Zadina and Rasmussen get an A. Zadina, like most rookies (who never even played a half season before), lost a little steam down the stretch, but he was still working hard. Ras was a horse.

Rookies aren't expected to win the Rocket Richard award. Stop living in a fantasy land and bring your expectations back down to reality.

Please change your avatar to Miyagi-Do. Giving an A just for participation makes no sense.

 

[Dotter]

Please change your avatar to Miyagi-Do. Giving an A just for participation makes no sense.

ah, so you don't watch games. Gotcha.

 

[heyfolks]

Larkin- I think Steve sees a lot of himself in Dylan and I think he is here long term. He is what Steve wants for the face of the franchise. A steadying demeanor, someone that won’t embarrass the franchise, and an above average talent. Will he ever be “the” offensive force on this team, I have to say no, but he will be a solid top 6 player who will represent the Wings very well.

Disagree. 2 different players and skill sets. What Y sees him is a hard working, dedicated, never complain, positive attitude player with top 2nd line skill. Yzerman could fill the net, Larkin is no where near his skill set around the net or with the puck. Conversely, Yzerman couldn't skate with him on his best day.

 

[Gniwder]

Disagree. 2 different players and skill sets. What Y sees him is a hard working, dedicated, never complain, positive attitude player with top 2nd line skill. Yzerman could fill the net, Larkin is no where near his skill set around the net or with the puck. Conversely, Yzerman couldn't skate with him on his best day.

Yzerman was a pretty good skater before his PCL injury, well above league average. Larkin just happens to be elite as far as speed.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Yzerman was a pretty good skater before his PCL injury, well above league average. Larkin just happens to be elite as far as speed.

Larkin is not elite skater look at Heiskanen, Makar, Necas, McDavid thats how elite skaters looks like.

 

[Gniwder]

Larkin is not elite skater look at Heiskanen, Makar, Necas, McDavid thats how elite skaters looks like.

Larkin is an elite skater in terms of speed. He's faster than all of them except McDavid, and even that's too close to call without a head to head race.

Edgework? Not so much.

Remember he beat McDavid for the NHL fastest skater competition, though he cheated on the start.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Larkin is an elite skater in terms of speed. He's faster than all of them except McDavid, and even that's too close to call without a head to head race.

Edgework? Not so much.

Remember he beat McDavid for the NHL fastest skater competition, though he cheated on the start.

I don't watch these stupid competitions. I agree with everything you've said. Edit: Yeah and there is no way in hell that Larkin is faster skater than Necas.

 

[Run the Jewels]

It has been obvious to me since Ken Holland was here that the franchise needed a proper rebuild. I think that became clear to a few people who expected us to be active in approaching some of the big free agent names during the summer. So this is a full on rebuild. Yzerman has been active on the free agent market, but he hasn't gone after guys who would require massive contracts; this makes perfect sense.

It's also become obvious that prior to Seider, we have not made the most from the top 10 picks we've had in recent drafts. This has set the rebuild back. The good news is we got our top pairing d-man with Yzerman's very first pick. Raymond is looking like a Mitch Marner type of player. We are finally hitting with our best draft picks. If we also hit with 2nd and 3rd round players then we will be well on our way to becoming a competitive NHL team.

It's also become clear that there isn't enough development from our top players. Mantha was a complete disappointment prior to the trade and Larkin had a year to forget. All of the improvement was due to fixing the defense - not making it great but making it just thoroughly mediocre - and replacing Howard with Greiss. Our goals against per game dropped from 3.8 in 2019-20 to 3.1 in 2020-21; that 18% drop in goals allowed is mostly due to the defense and goaltending. I have not called for Blashill to be fired, the main reason is because he is almost a lock to get us a top 10 draft pick. However with the lack of development you have to wonder if that becomes the key factor with regard to Blashill's future. There were plenty of people who supported keeping Holland has GM, so it is no surprise many of those same people fully support Blashill.

The other thing we have learned is that Yzerman is a very good judge of talent. Acquiring Fabbri was a nice move to address the complete lack of skill in the lineup. I had wanted to trade Mantha for a defensemen for several seasons but with the acquisition of Seider that need was addressed. Trading Mantha for Vrana obviously also addressed the total lack of talent within the franchise. Hopefully the Caps lose early so we can get the best draft pick available.

So the only thing I don't know is in regard to Blashill: does Yzerman prioritize getting another top draft pick in 2021-22 or does he prioritize player development now that we will have high level prospects finally joining the franchise?

 

[jkutswings]

So the only thing I don't know is in regard to Blashill: does Yzerman prioritize getting another top draft pick in 2021-22 or does he prioritize player development now that we will have high level prospects finally joining the franchise?

Assuming for a moment that the beliefs surrounding this question are true, I'd think that going for the draft pick would be via a 1 year extension for Blashill.

A priority of player development (with the argument of needing a new voice) would require a new coach, and a multi-year extension of Blashill would be a significant vote of confidence that he's more than just the placeholder while Yzerman was taking stock of the franchise.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Ideally they would simultaneously give you examples and not give you examples.

Technically, they wouldn't give you an example, and they wouldn't not give you an example. They would give you something between the two states.