Post-Game Talk (GBU): West Coast, Best Coast?

[Aladyyn]

I don't know what games you 2 are watching, every team with speed is beating us and there are many players on those teams with real jets for feet when compared to jack. I said he want fast fast. And while he has decent speed it is more than clear he isn't beating players around the edge.
But that's a singular situation, over all teams speed are killing us in COMPETE, HUSTLE and PUCK CONTROL.

That is on display every game, and that includes Jack. No matter how you want to cut it, this team needs some jets.

Missing the forest for the trees.

And yes, Jack is fast fast. Faster than Carrier who you said is the "only fast one".

We're not getting beaten by teams with faster players, we're getting beaten by teams that play better hockey. That's what it comes down to. This is a systematic issue, one that can't be solved by bringing in 3 players with "wheels" .

And no, players like Eichel and Reinhart are not going to be effective when they just "compete" and "hustle" more...

 

[Yatzhee]

Missing the forest for the trees.

And yes, Jack is fast fast. Faster than Carrier who you said is the "only fast one".

We're not getting beaten by teams with faster players, we're getting beaten by teams that play better hockey. That's what it comes down to. This is a systematic issue, one that can't be solved by bringing in 3 players with "wheels" .

And no, players like Eichel and Reinhart are not going to be effective when they just "compete" and "hustle" more...

No jack is not fast fast, he has great hands with decent speed.
Yes teams with speed are beating us but I will defer that a change in the on ice system, or strategy may mitigate that some but with the lack of Puck Battle wins, not enough.

 

[Aladyyn]

If Jack is not fast fast then nobody is...

 

[stokes84]

No jack is not fast fast, he has great hands with decent speed.
Yes teams with speed are beating us but I will defer that a change in the on ice system, or strategy may mitigate that some but with the lack of Puck Battle wins, not enough.

Jack has one of the most powerful strides... Ever? Certainly in today's game. But, no, not fast.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

No jack is not fast fast, he has great hands with decent speed.
Yes teams with speed are beating us but I will defer that a change in the on ice system, or strategy may mitigate that some but with the lack of Puck Battle wins, not enough.

Ok, Eichel has some pretty good jets. I'm not sure what you're seeing there.

 

[Matt Ress]

I don't know what games you 2 are watching, every team with speed is beating us and there are many players on those teams with real jets for feet when compared to jack. I said he want fast fast. And while he has decent speed it is more than clear he isn't beating players around the edge.
But that's a singular situation, over all teams speed are killing us in COMPETE, HUSTLE and PUCK CONTROL.

That is on display every game, and that includes Jack. No matter how you want to cut it, this team needs some jets.

The problem, I believe lies in the system in which players with speed are often times entering the zone flat footed. There is spped on this team but that really negates it.

Excluding last night, they were actually getting guys the puck, with speed into the O zone causing scoring chances and goals. Tampa usually had a forward back with the 2 D men which didn't allow much of this and pressured guys leaving the D zone. We should have countered with better passing through the neutral zone and more pressure on them out of their D zone and through the neutral zone. We did do this for 5 or 6 minutes and it was the most successful team stretch of the game. Instead, most of the game, Sabres in the D zone and through the neutral zone were pressured and gave up the puck whether it was a flop out of the zone or dump and chase which is especially difficult against a puck moving goalie.

Sadly, even Rob Ray forecasted this early in the game noting Bishop's puck handling skills.

 

[old kummelweck]

Great line but who plays center on the other 3 lines? Girgs and ...?

Who cares.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

No jack is not fast fast, he has great hands with decent speed.
Yes teams with speed are beating us but I will defer that a change in the on ice system, or strategy may mitigate that some but with the lack of Puck Battle wins, not enough.

Itstimetostopposting.jpg

 

[BowieSabresFan]

The problem, I believe lies in the system in which players with speed are often times entering the zone flat footed. There is spped on this team but that really negates it.

Excluding last night, they were actually getting guys the puck, with speed into the O zone causing scoring chances and goals. Tampa usually had a forward back with the 2 D men which didn't allow much of this and pressured guys leaving the D zone. We should have countered with better passing through the neutral zone and more pressure on them out of their D zone and through the neutral zone. We did do this for 5 or 6 minutes and it was the most successful team stretch of the game. Instead, most of the game, Sabres in the D zone and through the neutral zone were pressured and gave up the puck whether it was a flop out of the zone or dump and chase which is especially difficult against a puck moving goalie.

Sadly, even Rob Ray forecasted this early in the game noting Bishop's puck handling skills.

Ray had a few very good observations during last night's game.

 

[Sabretooth]

Just for fun...

-The sabres need 54 pts in the 2nd half to reach 95pts (which is about what it should take to get in the playoffs but not guaranteed).
-that means they need to go from a .500 pts% team to a .659 pts% team
-5 teams in the east (and another 2 in the west) did better than 54 pts in their first 41 games. So the Sabres would need to play at a pace that would be good enough for about 8th best team in the league.
-We're currently 24th best in terms of pts %
-yes, ".500" as a pts percentage is a meaningless milestone when 80% of the league is ".500" or better. It's like saying "congratulations, you're not terrible, you're just bad." There's more teams at or above ".500" that will miss the playoffs than those below ".500".
-Here's a list of records (and pts %) for what it would take to get to 95pts for all teams above us competing with each other for the 3 playoff spots we have any chance at all of reaching (along with pts currently on pace for):
Buffalo: 24-11-6 .659 (82)
Tampa: 23-11-5 .654 (83.9)
Toronto: 22-14-7 .593 (92.5)
Carolina: 22-13-6 .610 (90.0)
Florida: 22-12-5 .628 (87.7)
Ottawa: 21-16-5 .560 (98.4)
Boston: 21-12-4 .622 (89.3)
Philly: 20-13-5 .592 (93.2)
-Only Ottawa is currently on pace to do better than 95pts and would have to play worse than they played in the first half to get there.
-If no other team improved from their current pts %, the sabres would still have to do better than Toronto and reach 93pts (23-12-6)
-Last year, the Sabres record over the 2nd half of the season was 20-14-7 for 47pts. They would need to improve on that by 7 pts this year.
-Last year, the Sabres record over the 1st half of the season was 15-22-4 for just 34pts. That was 7 pts worse than their first half record this season.
-The difference between where we are now and being on the bubble is just 6-7 pts. We could've made up half of that just by being 50/50 in OT/SO instead of the 3-9 we are presently.
-Or god forbid we were actually good in OT/SO and went 9-3 instead of 3-9, we'd currently be the 3rd best of the above list and actually ready to compete for a playoff spot in the 2nd half rather than try to make up ground.

-and this was basically just one big exercise in "so close, yet so far"

 

[Matt Ress]

Ray had a few very good observations during last night's game.

He's been surprisingly insightful. Who woulda thunk it

 

[OkimLom]

No jack is not fast fast, he has great hands with decent speed.
Yes teams with speed are beating us but I will defer that a change in the on ice system, or strategy may mitigate that some but with the lack of Puck Battle wins, not enough.

Jack is fast, and has a ridiculous powerful stride. He doesn't have the stop and go ability of a McDavid though, not many players do though.

The problem is that we don't play in a way that utilizes this speed. Not many times is Jack moving at a good pace to accept a pass. When we do, Jack has went around many players in this league.

 

[sabrebuild]

I don't know what games you 2 are watching, every team with speed is beating us and there are many players on those teams with real jets for feet when compared to jack. I said he want fast fast. And while he has decent speed it is more than clear he isn't beating players around the edge.
But that's a singular situation, over all teams speed are killing us in COMPETE, HUSTLE and PUCK CONTROL.

That is on display every game, and that includes Jack. No matter how you want to cut it, this team needs some jets.

Ya jack is nimble, jack is quick, jack has a bad ankle injury that is limiting him right now and he is still a burner. This is not the hill to die on.

 

[sabrebuild]

He's been surprisingly insightful. Who woulda thunk it

Or those insights are painfully obvious. Unfortunately I think this is more of an indictment of bylsma than a showing of razors wit.

 

[Yatzhee]

Ok, Eichel has some pretty good jets. I'm not sure what you're seeing there.

Yes, decent speed, but as I said, that's a singular situation. Jack can't covet all 5 of the oppositiins players.
But more to the point I was getting at, putting jack aside, teams with speed, and not just on the rush, are beating us in puck battles.

 

[Yatzhee]

Ya jack is nimble, jack is quick, jack has a bad ankle injury that is limiting him right now and he is still a burner. This is not the hill to die on.

I concur. My observations are post ankle. But I don't want to single him out, quite the opposite. I am conveying the oppositiins speed in puck battles and creating space via speed. The Sabres have a real problem dealing with it. Some, ad I said can be mitigated with system adjustment, some I suspect is just getting faster players.

 

[stokes84]

I'm with you that we need more team speed (it's improved a ton with call ups though) but you did single out Eichel and saying his speed is "decent" is idiotic. He's an elite skater in every sense.

 

[old kummelweck]

Those that are criticizing Eichel's speed, keep in mind he will not really get to 100% with the high ankle sprain until he can really rest it in the off season. So he's limited in his mobility.

 

[Yatzhee]

I'm with you that we need more team speed (it's improved a ton with call ups though) but you did single out Eichel and saying his speed is "decent" is idiotic. He's an elite skater in every sense.

No. Its not "idiotic". It's a pure fallacy to try and pitxu Eichel ad some sort of top 5 league skater. He's got decent speed, you don't like the observation, personally I don't give a dam. Just stop truing to sell him as some rocket on the ice. I've seen plenty faster in the NHL.

But that want the mainstay of the opinion I wad giving
Others turned it fully that way. The fact, yes fact, remains the Sabres ad a team get consistently burned by speed. Whether it be on the rush or puck battles. You don't win many hockey games that way and that is being played out this season to be sure.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

"I'm going to say factually wrong **** and plug my ears and stop my feet when called on it."

 

[tsujimoto74]

No jack is not fast fast, he has great hands with decent speed.
Yes teams with speed are beating us but I will defer that a change in the on ice system, or strategy may mitigate that some but with the lack of Puck Battle wins, not enough.

Sometimes you just need to admit you're wrong. This is one of those times.

 

[ZZamboni]

I like how it went from "not fast"

Then morphed into:
"not a top 5 skater" (no one claims this)
"Not a rocket on the ice" (no one claims this)
"I've seen plenty of faster skaters" (everyone who's watched hockey more than the just the Sabres agrees so what exactly is the point to type that?)



It just seems like a whole lot of "cross my arms and die on this ignorant hill" hot air.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

we've been beaten by more than 5 teams so im not sure why top 5 speed would even be relevant

that last post was a gem though, moved the goal post so far you had to stop by customs

 

[Kyndig]

Eichel could be one of the fastest skaters in the league...he blew by Karlsson last year for a breakaway and he made it look easy.