Post-Game Talk: Well... Pens vs. Isles
- Thread starter ColePens
- Start date
Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
I agree that the team needs a complete attitude overhaul and infusion of young and/or hungry players.
I think a lot of people pointing out the 09 team winning with mediocre players aren't realizing that it wasn't their skill that made them/the line. It was the way they played with fire in their bellies and eagerly did the hard and dirty stuff to free up Sid and Geno. They didn't coast and play bad games because they knew they would be busted down the pecking order. Now we have Kunitz, who used to be one of those guys, playing like it's a Friday Night Free Skate at the Ice Garden more times than not because he knows next game he'll still get tapped every time Sid hops over the boards.
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
Seriously though, at some point this team needs to realize that they need 4 actual top 6 wingers. Actually, if they had 3 legitimate ones they could survive a tweener on the 2nd line. Right now they have Hornqvist, a corpse, a 4th liner and calling Spaling a tweener would be inaccurate.
madinsomniac
Registered User
Seriously though, at some point this team needs to realize that they need 4 actual top 6 wingers. Actually, if they had 3 legitimate ones they could survive a tweener on the 2nd line. Right now they have Hornqvist, a corpse, a 4th liner and calling Spaling a tweener would be inaccurate.
The problem is they don't value top 6 wingers like they should.. they almost never did. this franchise has a long history of playing scrubs in the top 6
Gurglesons
Registered User
Malkin had the highest point total of a player in the playoffs since Lemieux. Crosby did well also. The issue is this team does not have the mental ability to come back from certain teams. The issue is that these teams are all the ones in our division.
billybudd
Registered User
- Feb 1, 2012
- 22,049
- 2,249
66 and 99 were better than 87 and 71, and not by a little, by a lot. You can't expect the same.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
So much talk about a lack of passion and enthusiasm yet a week ago we were all thrilled with how the Penguins were playing in some very physical and intense games which they won. Now they have looked bad for 2 games and they are heartless losers.
This board is unbearable at times. Before the season everybody was talking about how it will take a while to gauge how this team plays under Johnston. So many people said regular season games, especially early ones, won't be enough to draw conclusions about this team considering the new system/coach.
Now everybody is freaking out over 2 or 3 flat games in a row in November right after a 7 game winning streak involving them playing very hard and winning some very tough and physical games. We beat a fast team like the Leafs and everybody is happy then we lose to the Isles and we can't possibly handle a speedy team.
You guys do realize every single other team in this league has peaks and valleys as well, right? Is there a larger problem here? Possibly, but 2 games this early in the season under a new coach and with a different roster is not a symptom of a bigger problem.
So much doom and gloom. Get over yourselves.
This board is unbearable at times. Before the season everybody was talking about how it will take a while to gauge how this team plays under Johnston. So many people said regular season games, especially early ones, won't be enough to draw conclusions about this team considering the new system/coach.
Now everybody is freaking out over 2 or 3 flat games in a row in November right after a 7 game winning streak involving them playing very hard and winning some very tough and physical games. We beat a fast team like the Leafs and everybody is happy then we lose to the Isles and we can't possibly handle a speedy team.
You guys do realize every single other team in this league has peaks and valleys as well, right? Is there a larger problem here? Possibly, but 2 games this early in the season under a new coach and with a different roster is not a symptom of a bigger problem.
So much doom and gloom. Get over yourselves.
Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
"Every season has its peaks and valleys. What you have to try to do is eliminate the Grand Canyon." -Andy Van Slyke
Night Shift
Registered User
You can add 68 to that
87 and 71 I doubt will be able to do the things 68 is doing at age 42 when they reach 42
Night Shift
Registered User
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
If a 3 game stretch of flat games where the Penguins still manage to get 3 points is a "grand canyon", then what would you call the 7 game winning streak?
Winger for Hire
Praise Beebo
And I wasn't calling the current situation the grand canyon. I was agreeing with your post before that. I was throwing in a quote that applies. 3 meh to bad games aren't something to scream gloom and doom over.
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
And I wasn't calling the current situation the grand canyon. I was agreeing with your post before that. I was throwing in a quote that applies. 3 meh to bad games aren't something to scream gloom and doom over.
Oh it kinda went over my head.
wingnutks
Registered User
- Nov 17, 2011
- 6,737
- 2,517
Coming in peace. From an outsiders perspective. These were the first two games I can remember that Crosby didnt light us up. There may have been one in the playoff series, but in regular season, we never shut him down. I didnt pay much attention to him in the first game, but he didnt seem "dangerous". The second game I paid a bit more attention and it looks like he was either bored, disinterested, or frustrated. Not smashing and yelling frustrated, more like aww **** it frustrated.
There was one play with Crosby coming thru the neutral zone(with no winger support) with the puck. An Islander defenseman got a lucky poke at it and knocked it clean off Crosby's stick to another Islander who went up the ice. Crosby glided straight for 10' for so with his arms down, then made a big radius gliding turn, and glided to the bench. None of that seemed like him at all, and also to note it was an extremely short shift, it definitely looked like he changed early.
As for Kunitz, I didnt watch him closely at all really, but usually he is great against the Islanders. One of the big things he usually does against us is stop our break outs. Usually half a dozen times a game we will think we have an easy out/clear from below the dots or behind the goal line, and Kunitz will hustle and make a super quick stick check from behind and nab the puck right back, and go back to the offensive. I dont think he really did that at all in these two games. I know the Isles D is better and more mobile now, but I feel like this was one of Kunitz strong points and I didnt see it once in these games.
One thing I think would help the Pens alot other than a good 1st line winger is a better 4th line. I havent watch any other Pens games this season so I dont have alot of data, but I feel like the 4th line was just a filler to give other lines a rest. I think this can be OK, IF the Pens top two lines are rolling hard, but I think it can become a big disadvantage to have a non-impact 4th line IF the top 2 lines are struggling. The Islanders this year have a record of 7-1 when NOT scoring first, so they have come back from alot of games to win. I think a huge reason for this is our 4th line. If you are using the 4th line more or less to give your other 3(or top 2) lines a rest, you are also giving the other team a rest when your 4th line is out there. It is not a huge surprise that the Isles 4th line opened up the scoring both nights. What I think can happen is teams can get "tired" of trying to cover 4 lines that pose a legit scoring threat... they never get a shift off when all 4 lines are actively trying to push offense. Eventually a break down happens.
As the Pens go, I think having a "filler" 4th line is not a bad thing as long as the top 2 lines are rolling along(its been like that in the NHL forever). I also think things can be improved by assembling a better 4th line, even if you dont add 1st or 2nd line wingers. Obviously doing both would be best.
That is just from reading thru this thread, and only watching 2 games, so its not very high value input.
But also, it really needs to be said that the team is 13-4-2 after going thru a TON of off season changes... I understand 19-0 would be better, but I would go jumping just yet lol. They are pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs, so whatever needs to be made better doesnt NEED to happen overnight. There is plenty of time to make good, logical upgrades.
There was one play with Crosby coming thru the neutral zone(with no winger support) with the puck. An Islander defenseman got a lucky poke at it and knocked it clean off Crosby's stick to another Islander who went up the ice. Crosby glided straight for 10' for so with his arms down, then made a big radius gliding turn, and glided to the bench. None of that seemed like him at all, and also to note it was an extremely short shift, it definitely looked like he changed early.
As for Kunitz, I didnt watch him closely at all really, but usually he is great against the Islanders. One of the big things he usually does against us is stop our break outs. Usually half a dozen times a game we will think we have an easy out/clear from below the dots or behind the goal line, and Kunitz will hustle and make a super quick stick check from behind and nab the puck right back, and go back to the offensive. I dont think he really did that at all in these two games. I know the Isles D is better and more mobile now, but I feel like this was one of Kunitz strong points and I didnt see it once in these games.
One thing I think would help the Pens alot other than a good 1st line winger is a better 4th line. I havent watch any other Pens games this season so I dont have alot of data, but I feel like the 4th line was just a filler to give other lines a rest. I think this can be OK, IF the Pens top two lines are rolling hard, but I think it can become a big disadvantage to have a non-impact 4th line IF the top 2 lines are struggling. The Islanders this year have a record of 7-1 when NOT scoring first, so they have come back from alot of games to win. I think a huge reason for this is our 4th line. If you are using the 4th line more or less to give your other 3(or top 2) lines a rest, you are also giving the other team a rest when your 4th line is out there. It is not a huge surprise that the Isles 4th line opened up the scoring both nights. What I think can happen is teams can get "tired" of trying to cover 4 lines that pose a legit scoring threat... they never get a shift off when all 4 lines are actively trying to push offense. Eventually a break down happens.
As the Pens go, I think having a "filler" 4th line is not a bad thing as long as the top 2 lines are rolling along(its been like that in the NHL forever). I also think things can be improved by assembling a better 4th line, even if you dont add 1st or 2nd line wingers. Obviously doing both would be best.
That is just from reading thru this thread, and only watching 2 games, so its not very high value input.
But also, it really needs to be said that the team is 13-4-2 after going thru a TON of off season changes... I understand 19-0 would be better, but I would go jumping just yet lol. They are pretty much guaranteed to make the playoffs, so whatever needs to be made better doesnt NEED to happen overnight. There is plenty of time to make good, logical upgrades.
Night Shift
Registered User
Appreciate your thoughts. After 3 games between the two teams I have high respect for your team. After 20 some years of futility you guys deserve a good team to hang your hat on.
WayneSid9987
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2009
- 30,054
- 5,676
The 4th line can be better without even making a move.
It can be made up of Goc, Spaling, Farnham, Megna and Comeau or Downie.
The 4th right now is much closer to Glass-Goc-Adams and was a point JR brought up when coming here. He wanted a better 4th line. Well he's failed there pretty bad.
They should play the teams best 6 hockey players in the top 6 and fill out the bottom 6 with the rest minus Sill and Adams.
Top 6: Sid, Geno, Horny, Beau, Sutter, (Kunitz)
Bottom 6: Comeau, Downie, Megna, Goc, Spaling, Farnham.
Thats a pretty decent lineup right there without any trades being made.
It can be made up of Goc, Spaling, Farnham, Megna and Comeau or Downie.
The 4th right now is much closer to Glass-Goc-Adams and was a point JR brought up when coming here. He wanted a better 4th line. Well he's failed there pretty bad.
They should play the teams best 6 hockey players in the top 6 and fill out the bottom 6 with the rest minus Sill and Adams.
Top 6: Sid, Geno, Horny, Beau, Sutter, (Kunitz)
Bottom 6: Comeau, Downie, Megna, Goc, Spaling, Farnham.
Thats a pretty decent lineup right there without any trades being made.
cygnus47
Registered User
- Sep 14, 2013
- 7,574
- 2,668
I'm kinda hoping that Adams gets his ironman record and then gets dumped, he's holding us back at even strength. How are the young guys meant to get in if there are no roster spots open even when we're down a couple guys?
That said, I'm not as worried about our line up as a lot of guys are, but with Duper out we do need an energetic tweener type and we still need a genuine top 6 winger. Despres will be more effective as a top 4 guy and Harrington/Bortuzzo would be more useful (and cheaper) than Scuds. Other than that though, I think our roster is fine. I don't think we need sweeping changes, just to make better use of the guys we have and the top 6 guy that we knew we would need at some point.
I think a temporary solution to get more out of what we have until a trade is made:
Malkin - Sid - Horny
Kunitz - Sutter - Bennett
Downie - Goc - Comeau
Megna - Spaling - Adams
We don't have enough wingers for both Sid and Geno, Sutter and Bennett have been playing really well both individually and as a pair and Goc deserves a break from the anchor/s. This solves all of those. I also remember Kunitz and Sutts playing well together last year, and having Sid and Geno together for an extended period will get them both playing creatively again.
That said, I'm not as worried about our line up as a lot of guys are, but with Duper out we do need an energetic tweener type and we still need a genuine top 6 winger. Despres will be more effective as a top 4 guy and Harrington/Bortuzzo would be more useful (and cheaper) than Scuds. Other than that though, I think our roster is fine. I don't think we need sweeping changes, just to make better use of the guys we have and the top 6 guy that we knew we would need at some point.
I think a temporary solution to get more out of what we have until a trade is made:
Malkin - Sid - Horny
Kunitz - Sutter - Bennett
Downie - Goc - Comeau
Megna - Spaling - Adams
We don't have enough wingers for both Sid and Geno, Sutter and Bennett have been playing really well both individually and as a pair and Goc deserves a break from the anchor/s. This solves all of those. I also remember Kunitz and Sutts playing well together last year, and having Sid and Geno together for an extended period will get them both playing creatively again.
FinPanda
Team Finland 2022 WHC champions
Bennett-Crosby-Hörnqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Megna
Spaling-Sutter-Comeau
Downie-Goc-Adams
Määttä-Letang
Despres-Martin
Ehrhoff-Bortuzzo
^
Finnish Pens fan roster. Not mine.
Kunitz-Malkin-Megna
Spaling-Sutter-Comeau
Downie-Goc-Adams
Määttä-Letang
Despres-Martin
Ehrhoff-Bortuzzo
^
Finnish Pens fan roster. Not mine.
The Greatest 101
Registered User
NewAgeOutlaw
Belie Dat!
All I would change is putting BB with Malkin, Downie with Sid and Megna on the 4th line.
radapex
Registered User
No disagreement here... but Comeau and Spaling are currently in the top 6. They need to trade for a top 6 wing, then move Bennett up to fill it out.
Ahh, Van Slyke! Those were the good old days!
One time Jeff King hit a foul ball into our box... This little kid beat me to it... FML!
MrBurghundy
I may be older but I'm never forgetting #47 & #41
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
Crosby bounced a goal off of his leg.
But really, Megna if he can ever get smarter, is a present for Crosby player. Speed, goes to the net, has hands and has a shot, and he's a RHS. He also seems to be doing something that annoys other teams and isn't a midget.
The Greatest 101
Registered User
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