Post-Game Talk: Well... Pens vs. Isles

[Deutschland Dangler]

Crosby has yet to show me in the past four years he is a true "captain"

Are you in the locker room frequently?

 

[ProgOg]

Wanna hear something more depressing. Since crosbys "wrist" injury last year, 11 goals in last 42 games. I'm sorry but the best thing pens can do is take the C and all A's away from everyone. Crosby has yet to show me in the past four years he is a true "captain"

Since his injury healed, he has 8 goals in 19 games, which is a normal pace for 87. Currently goal/point-slumping hard, tho.

 

[Fleury3434*]

You are right I am not in the locker room so I can't comment on how Crosby leads in the locker room / off the ice. But he can lead with his play, and lately it just looks really lazy.

I agree the winger situation right now is bad, but at some point you gotta start looking at Crosby and malkin too. These two players are supposed to be two of the best players in the world. Some of the blame has to be on them also.

Look at Lemieux and Gretzky (especially Lemieux). Lemieux played with average wings most of his career but his play MADE his linemates better (example: turning brown from a 50 point 20 goal player into a 49 goal 115 point player in a season).

Changing the coach and gm was the first step (and I do believe it was an improvement). But next it comes down to the players. Some of the players on this team seam entitled to good seasons and a chance at the cup. Practice today should have some sort of wake up call if I was the coach

 

[ProgOg]

You are right I am not in the locker room so I can't comment on how Crosby leads in the locker room / off the ice. But he can lead with his play, and lately it just looks really lazy.

I agree the winger situation right now is bad, but at some point you gotta start looking at Crosby and malkin too. These two players are supposed to be two of the best players in the world. Some of the blame has to be on them also.

Look at Lemieux and Gretzky (especially Lemieux). Lemieux played with average wings most of his career but his play MADE his linemates better (example: turning brown from a 50 point 20 goal player into a 49 goal 115 point player in a season).

Changing the coach and gm was the first step (and I do believe it was an improvement). But next it comes down to the players. Some of the players on this team seam entitled to good seasons and a chance at the cup. Practice today should have some sort of wake up call if I was the coach

Malkin and Crosby do the same.

Expecting them to be like Gretzky and Lemieux is your mistake to make, though.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Why does everything Sid and Geno does have to be compared to Mario and Gretzky? Why can't we just enjoy two awesome players? They're allowed to have some rough patches here and there. They can only do so much with what they've been given.

The Mario/Brown comparison is awful. 50 goals in that day and age is like getting Kunitz to score 35...

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

But he can lead with his play, and lately it just looks really lazy.

Would e.g. winning the scoring race by 17 points while being involved in 43,3% of the teams goals and having to play the toughest minutes night in and night out (with nobody stepping up to deter opponents from constantly hacking and whacking him) qualify as "leading with his play" in your eyes?

Look at Lemieux and Gretzky (especially Lemieux). Lemieux played with average wings most of his career but his play MADE his linemates better (example: turning brown from a 50 point 20 goal player into a 49 goal 115 point player in a season).

First of all, comparing him to those two is foolish. And secondly, he is doing just that. Dear god, he dragged Chris ****ing Kunitz onto Team Canada last year and made Dupuis put up first line numbers. What else do you want?




Sid is not above criticism (although I disagree with the notion that he's been lazy or terrible the last few games, excluding yesterday's game) but seeing people basically rewriting history to diminish what he has done for this team just because he is going through a little bit of a scoring drought makes me want to puke.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You are right I am not in the locker room so I can't comment on how Crosby leads in the locker room / off the ice. But he can lead with his play, and lately it just looks really lazy.

I agree the winger situation right now is bad, but at some point you gotta start looking at Crosby and malkin too. These two players are supposed to be two of the best players in the world. Some of the blame has to be on them also.

Look at Lemieux and Gretzky (especially Lemieux). Lemieux played with average wings most of his career but his play MADE his linemates better (example: turning brown from a 50 point 20 goal player into a 49 goal 115 point player in a season).

Changing the coach and gm was the first step (and I do believe it was an improvement). But next it comes down to the players. Some of the players on this team seam entitled to good seasons and a chance at the cup. Practice today should have some sort of wake up call if I was the coach

Lemieux played in a run and gun league in his early years. He played with some crap wingers in his early days... Giffen, Gatzos, etc, but he was young and still put up points, just like Crosby played with ass linemates when he was young and put up 100 point seasons in a much more defensive league.

Lemieux turned guys like Brown and Young into 40 goal scorers, but again, fire wagon hockey produced a number of 30-40 goal scorers all around the league that would essentially be third liners in today's NHL. Did you notice what Crosby did for Dupuis and Kunitz's numbers? He has dragged around a decent third wheel and a third liner for years.

The difference between Lemieux and Crosby's career, is that as Lemieux got older, he enjoyed the luxury of skating with very talented wingmen. By the time Lemieux was 25, he was skating with the likes of Recchi and Stevens, and then Tocchet, Francis, Jagr, etc.

Crosby has had two months of Hossa and he's 27. It's so comically bad and there is zero comparison to the kind of linemates these two shared.

It's ridiculous.

 

[TheSniper26]

You are right I am not in the locker room so I can't comment on how Crosby leads in the locker room / off the ice. But he can lead with his play, and lately it just looks really lazy.

I agree the winger situation right now is bad, but at some point you gotta start looking at Crosby and malkin too. These two players are supposed to be two of the best players in the world. Some of the blame has to be on them also.

Look at Lemieux and Gretzky (especially Lemieux). Lemieux played with average wings most of his career but his play MADE his linemates better (example: turning brown from a 50 point 20 goal player into a 49 goal 115 point player in a season).

Changing the coach and gm was the first step (and I do believe it was an improvement). But next it comes down to the players. Some of the players on this team seam entitled to good seasons and a chance at the cup. Practice today should have some sort of wake up call if I was the coach

You do realize that the main reason Crosby has played with Kunitz/Dupuis for so long is because he turned them into players good enough to fool management into keeping them in the top 6, right? Think about what you're saying. You want to strip Crosby of the captaincy because he's in a slump for a handful of games. This coming after a season in which he swept all the major awards in dominant fashion. I mean there's overreaction and then there's whatever this thread is turning into.

But I know, I know, "REGULAR SEASON CUPS LOLz!" and all that. The only games that count are game 7s, post-round two, against teams we deem to be great defensively and have excellent goaltending and a wonderful coach. All the rest are just Secondary Sid feasting on Buffalo.

 

[chethejet]

Dupuis and his versatility are a big loss for a team lacking size and speed. Dupuis played bigger than his size and with Kunitz now having to pick up some of the slack is just not doable.

 

[Tender Rip]

Well, the positive is that Johnston should have gotten answers aplenty. Long is the road, and hard... and all that.

Personally I find that these lessons are likely necessary.
I'll start freaking out if we don't see that lessons are learned when we are by the 40-50 game mark.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I'm just curious as to how many Stanley Cups Mario won while elevating Rob Brown

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm just curious as to how many Stanley Cups Mario won while elevating Rob Brown

You will find it quite curious then that Lemieux only made the playoffs once until he had the aforementioned, talented wingers.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Super-weird how that works, huh?

 

[ProgOg]

Hmmmmmmmmm....... that is a weird coincidence.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It's almost like... even great players need help.

 

[Winger for Hire]

It's almost like... even great players need help.

But, but... but the 2009 Cup win. Feds, Talbot, Duper...

 

[ColePens]

Well, the positive is that Johnston should have gotten answers aplenty. Long is the road, and hard... and all that.

Personally I find that these lessons are likely necessary.
I'll start freaking out if we don't see that lessons are learned when we are by the 40-50 game mark.

The only scary thing is that we said the same thing with DB.... and we never learned from our lessons.

 

[Lomez]

The frustrating thing is that it would appear, to me anyway, we're one or two pieces away from being very competitive. That's doable.

 

[fastb]

Not that he's the solution, but what's the point of calling up Megna to sit him in the press box? Granted, the only thing I remember him doing is taking out Steve Mason last year, but at least he's got some speed, which we were solely lacking last night.

 

[johnniewalker]

So it begins:

Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib 2m2 minutes ago
Crosby has four goals in his past 16 games.

I have more than enough money saved. Do I follow my dream and move to Pittsburgh and get into hockey journalism? Looks easy enough. How are the women?

A lot better than the journalism.

 

[MtlPenFan]

You will find it quite curious then that Lemieux only made the playoffs once until he had the aforementioned, talented wingers.

So, am I to understand that even though he often elevated lesser talent around him, he didn't actually win anything until the team had enough talent to support him as well?

I'm not a bright person, so I need clarification here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So, am I to understand that even though he often elevated lesser talent around him, he didn't actually win anything until the team had enough talent to support him as well?

I'm not a bright person, so I need clarification here.

He had that Art Ross in '89 and uh...

Robbie Brown got to hook up with Alyssa Milano.

 

[Winger for Hire]

He had that Art Ross in '89 and uh...

Robbie Brown got to hook up with Alyssa Milano.

So we need to get Sid some single line-mates, not the married ones we get shoehorning in... we've been looking at this all wrong!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's almost like... even great players need help.

Nonsense. Everyone knows that great players should be able to win Stanley Cups even when they're flanked by two mediocre wingers.

 

[ColePens]

It's almost like... even great players need help.

I would agree and I think it's time we think about moving a guy like Letang. What makes us win more.... having him on the back end or having linemates for Sid/Geno? I'm starting to think it's the later.

But below will be crucial in my opinion...

But, but... but the 2009 Cup win. Feds, Talbot, Duper...

Which is why I say you could put an NHL All-Star team on the Pens and it wouldn't matter. It just wouldn't matter. The enthusiasm/passion on this team is ****. Just utter ****.

So you can go get all the help you can possibly get under the cap. It's the passion/enthusiasm that this team needs. The culture over the last 5 years was torn apart. It's proven because the guys like Talbot/Fedotenko/etc. were more hungry than any talented player we have. They took offense to not winning the Cup in 08 and that made them a better team than any talent.