Pre-Game Talk: Week of Ambivalence (PIT, @CBJ, @MIN)

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

As for size, I think Roy prefers size but his biggest pet peeves, from what I have noticed, are players not putting in the work/keeping their feet and strength on the puck going and players getting pushed off of the puck or knocked over too easily (sometimes from a lack of work).

It is easier to view larger players as being more capable of not being pushed around so easily. I think compete, small stature and getting pushed out of the way is a large reason Briere is eating nachos, Talbot was traded (minus the compete) and why many of the LEM players had such short looks throughout the season. The moment they were shoved off of the puck once or twice they were already booked a flight back to LE.

It definitely seems like Roy's preference for size isn't just with slow lumbering giants. He knows that the game is fast, so he has looked to add big guys that can skate as well. He is right though, the West is a big mans conference.

I just hope that Hishon can buck the trend. He looked plenty good last night IMO.

 

[Freudian]

It's not just Avs or the West that want to become bigger. The Kings and Blackhawks have been the most successful teams lately and it's much easier to emulate what the Kings are doing. Also with interference creeping back into the game in a big way it's easier for bigger players to be effective once again.

I think a lot of teams are trying to get a bit bigger.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Some teams have closer to 20 b2b, the Avs stay closer to 10-12. Obviously in the east when you can just drive somewhere it's a lot easier to have more b2bs. It's not so much that the Avs have them because everyone does, I think the key gripe is a lot are important road division games and all have required travel. Last year we had home b2bs, that's at least one way to do it. But to play Minnesota twice in the span of 8 days and both are the second night of a b2b with travel is beyond ridiculous.

 

[henchman21]

Even though I thought Pracey was decent, I do hope Avs go after more talented players now. None of this Hishon over Bjugstad anymore or Heard over Severson/Sissons (though I still consider Hishon a decent pick).


I know everyone loves Everberg here, and he absolutely deserves the love, but Rendulic is the same way. I think Borna's problems are a lot like Dennis, they might be in good shape, but they lack muscle for the NHL game. It is the most important area both players need to work on in the summer.

I don't think the Avs will do that. They will be as concerned about how projectable a prospect is as they will their skill. We will see the Avs pass over more 'skilled' players. A good example is Bleacks over Scherbak last year.

Agreed on Everberg and Rendulic... they need to add some bulk, not just be in good shape.

 

[Freudian]

I don't understand why almost all b2b games involve travel. Why not try to schedule them at home, where two teams come into town two days in a row so the disadvantage is much smaller.

I hate that some games are almost auto-losses simply because of scheduling.

 

[bohlmeister]

Roy said that Pracey's problem was that he had no vision. And I agree. He should be a scout, not the head scout. The problem with drafting the best player available, and not for your needs, is that you end up with what the Avs have now. There isn't depth at every position. You aren't going to hit on all of them, so if you take 4 small skilled centers, and hit on one. Then you really left with nothing useful. And those small skilled centers are such a low probability of making an impact in the NHL because they can't play in the bottom 6. So you need them to be top 6 centers. It was stupid. Another part of the no vision is not looking at your competition. These are the teams you are competing against. San Jose, LA, St Louis have been drafting big for a long time. To keep drafting small players is flawed logic.

Part of that likely isn't Pracey. I am sure that before Roy got there there was no communication between the GM group and the scouts as far as needs or vision. That was why Roy coming in was such a huge culture change. Like it or not, Roy has a vision. He knows what he wants, and believes in a certain way of doing it.

It would have been nice to keep Pracey as a scout, tell him what you are looking for and needed, and move forward without him as the head scout. Probably wouldn't have taken a demotion though.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't understand why almost all b2b games involve travel. Why not try to schedule them at home, where two teams come into town two days in a row so the disadvantage is much smaller.

I hate that some games are almost auto-losses simply because of scheduling.

This.

B2B are fine, it's normal. Just have them close by at least.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

From 2009-2012, Pracey drafted 13 forwards. Not one was bigger than 6'1". 8 of them were smaller than 6'. The supremely talented guys at the top of the draft are certainly understandable, but when you're going deep into the draft, change it up a bit.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Patrick went HAM on Pracey. Damn good interview and I would say by far the best all year. Patrick needs a 1 hr weekly Podcast on his own lol with a phone in portion. How awesome would that be? Im soo damn happy to hear him talk about wanting to get EJ specifically someone to play with and its not going to be a toothless old man either. I really hope that defender he was talking about is Zadorov but im still thinking he wants Kulikov. Either guy would be awesome with EJ just depends what we give up I guess. That interview was so good im gonna listen again.

 

[hockeyfish]

Roy said that Pracey's problem was that he had no vision. And I agree. He should be a scout, not the head scout. The problem with drafting the best player available, and not for your needs, is that you end up with what the Avs have now. There isn't depth at every position. You aren't going to hit on all of them, so if you take 4 small skilled centers, and hit on one. Then you really left with nothing useful. And those small skilled centers are such a low probability of making an impact in the NHL because they can't play in the bottom 6. So you need them to be top 6 centers. It was stupid. Another part of the no vision is not looking at your competition. These are the teams you are competing against. San Jose, LA, St Louis have been drafting big for a long time. To keep drafting small players is flawed logic.

Part of that likely isn't Pracey. I am sure that before Roy got there there was no communication between the GM group and the scouts as far as needs or vision. That was why Roy coming in was such a huge culture change. Like it or not, Roy has a vision. He knows what he wants, and believes in a certain way of doing it.

It would have been nice to keep Pracey as a scout, tell him what you are looking for and needed, and move forward without him as the head scout. Probably wouldn't have taken a demotion though.

Thats the thing though, were they even drafting best players available? I have a hard time seeing every best player available being a short center for 3 years in a row.

I think somehow they some mindset that the best way to build a team was to draft fast players and build with centers. Perhaps they over estimated the impacts of the post lockout anti "clutch and grab" stuff and though the league would become minimal contact and basically become an "all star game." Thats pretty much the opposite of what happened.

 

[Ice Crusher]

Patrick went HAM on Pracey. Damn good interview and I would say by far the best all year. Patrick needs a 1 hr weekly Podcast on his own lol with a phone in portion. How awesome would that be? Im soo damn happy to hear him talk about wanting to get EJ specifically someone to play with and its not going to be a toothless old man either. I really hope that defender he was talking about is Zadorov but im still thinking he wants Kulikov. Either guy would be awesome with EJ just depends what we give up I guess. That interview was so good im gonna listen again.

I have to agree that this interview was by far the best of all year. Every point he has made just showed how much of a long term vision he has to this team to become a future dynasty. After that interview, I'm far from being worried now.

 

[bohlmeister]

Thats the thing though, were they even drafting best players available? I have a hard time seeing every best player available being a short center for 3 years in a row.

I think somehow they some mindset that the best way to build a team was to draft fast players and build with centers. Perhaps they over estimated the impacts of the post lockout anti "clutch and grab" stuff and though the league would become minimal contact and basically become an "all star game." Thats pretty much the opposite of what happened.

Every scout has a different opinion. But obviously he thought they were. He wasn't picking 5'10 centers all the time because he thought they needed more of them. They considered them to be the best players available.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Team must have listened to Roy's radio interview

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Thats the thing though, were they even drafting best players available? I have a hard time seeing every best player available being a short center for 3 years in a row.

I think somehow they some mindset that the best way to build a team was to draft fast players and build with centers. Perhaps they over estimated the impacts of the post lockout anti "clutch and grab" stuff and though the league would become minimal contact and basically become an "all star game." Thats pretty much the opposite of what happened.

BPA is relative. I'm sure teams have a weighting system where they give a different weight to each attribute (i.e skills, speed, size, etc.). I'm sure Pracey's weight system was/is different than the other teams at the time and Roy now. Skills obviously was weighted high and size was low by Pracey. I suspect it is a lot more even with Roy so therefore the BPA list would look different with both guys especially in the first two rounds. It is still a BPA approach though.

Roy's approach seems to be size with skills but it doesn't mean he won't draft a small player in the future. He is drafting all size now to catch up. Another approach from Roy is that he believes he can find great dmen in the second round and prefers to draft FWDs in the first. Again it doesn't mean he won't deviate from that once in a while.

Once he gets his balance, I think he will start drafting BPA in the first round with priority being FWD and then draft more for needs in the other rounds.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Pracey's weight system definitely did not involve weighing "weight"

Thank you, thank you, i'm here all night!

 

[The Kingslayer]

Team must have listened to Roy's radio interview

Balls out homie. Follow the captain.

 

[Iceberg]

That was far and away the best interview this year. For the people that think these guys don't know what they're doing, just listen to this interview.

TMV, just want to thank you for posting these interviews.

 

[tigervixxxen]

BPA is relative. I'm sure teams have a weighting system where they give a different weight to each attribute (i.e skills, speed, size, etc.). I'm sure Pracey's weight system was/is different than the other teams at the time and Roy now. Skills obviously was weighted high and size was low by Pracey. I suspect it is a lot more even with Roy so therefore the BPA list would look different with both guys especially in the first two rounds. It is still a BPA approach though.

Roy's approach seems to be size with skills but it doesn't mean he won't draft a small player in the future. He is drafting all size now to catch up. Another approach from Roy is that he believes he can find great dmen in the second round and prefers to draft FWDs in the first. Again it doesn't mean he won't deviate from that once in a while.

Once he gets his balance, I think he will start drafting BPA in the first round with priority being FWD and then draft more for needs in the other rounds.

I agree. I can see tiers in a draft where a talent level drops off and an argument for picking a "better" player in a higher tier but after that it's just totally needs and individual interpretation especially after rounds 2-3.

And exactly that about getting Dmsn later.

 

[Iceberg]

There are so many names there that they could list out. Could be Yandle, Kulikov, Zadorov, Fowler, etc.

I would be very surprised if they are not interested in Kulikov though.

i'd guess they tried to get Cowen from Ottawa.

 

[BoxOfChocolates]

Imagine a 3rd line of Everberg, Soderberg and Rendulic in a year or two.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Imagine a 3rd line of Everberg, Soderberg and Rendulic in a year or two.

Replace Rendulic with Carl Klingberg, Silfverberg or by some miracle Forsberg/Zetterberg.

Because ya know. BERG.

wonder what Aki Berg is up to these days?

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Replace Rendulic with Carl Klingberg, Silfverberg or by some miracle Forsberg/Zetterberg.

Because ya know. BERG.

wonder what Aki Berg is up to these days?

McGinnerberg would be pretty good on that line as well.

 

[dahrougem2]

Love that interview. Was never a fan of Pracey and his obsession with small players. 2013 and 2014 drafts should go a long way in distinguishing Roy/Sakic from Pracey and how the two sides differed in their philosophies.

I wonder what Roy meant when he said they tried to get a partner for EJ. To me anyways, that was a little hint as to them maybe putting ROR out there looking for a top-pair guy.

One thing I didn't like was that he said they don't want to go after a 34-35 year old guy to play on the top pair with EJ just as a stop-gap. Does that mean Paul Martin is literally not even an option

 

[InjuredChoker]

wonder what Aki Berg is up to these days?

he works as a trainer on mikko rantanen's team.

 

[The Kingslayer]

i'd guess they tried to get Cowen from Ottawa.

I pray to Pesci we never get Cowen unless its a Cowen for Wilson type thing. Cowen sucks and I wont have many Sens fan arguing with me on that im sure.