Blue Jays Discussion: We put the Spring in Spring Training (Next TV Game: Sunday 16th vs Bal)

[Saul Goodman]

It's not about whether $14m is fair. It's about it being a one-year deal. The money, in that case, is irrelevant. And Atlanta wasn't even in the picture before their pitcher went down with an injury. This should have been done on Saturday. Offer more money and offer bonuses. Santana, for all his warts, is an upgrade over what they have in the #4 and #5 spots currently (regardless of the optimism one might have around Hutch). That this didn't get done is inexcusable. I agree there can be good cases made for avoiding the other FAs on long-term deals and on losing more prospects to the trade market, but losing out on Santana in this manner is indefensible.

It's not about money. Clearly he wanted to pitch in the NL so everything else is irrelevent. You can't force a player to sign a contract.

Notice how basically every other starting pitcher in the Jays rotation was aquired by trade? Free agents don't want to come here, plain and simple. Throwing buckets off money at them isn't going to change things.

 

[theaub]

AA basically says he had Ervin signed on Saturday and then his agent bailed.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

It's not about money. Clearly he wanted to pitch in the NL so everything else is irrelevent. You can't force a player to sign a contract.

Notice how basically every other starting pitcher in the Jays rotation was aquired by trade? Free agents don't want to come here, plain and simple. Throwing buckets off money at them isn't going to change things.

The NL wasn't an option until the Braves lost Medlin. AA's spin on this is nonsense.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

"We don't want to make a deal for the sake of making a deal if we don't believe in the deal long-term."

Well said, but that's not going to go over well lol.

 

[theaub]

"We don't want to make a deal for the sake of making a deal if we don't believe in the deal long-term."

Well said, but that's not going to go over well lol.

I just don't understand how that makes sense on a one year deal

Unless we're really overvaluing the #57 pick or whatever.

 

[Drew311]

The NL wasn't an option until the Braves lost Medlin. AA's spin on this is nonsense.

Not really, because he said they basically had him signed last week at some point. It was Santana's choice to nix the deal and wait for other teams to jump in.

Put yourself in Santana's position. If you were looking to re-establish your value to hit a homerun on a longterm deal, would you rather pitch primarily for one season against the Phillies, Marlins, Nats and Mets, or against the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Orioles?

The path that Santana took to sign with the Braves was ridiculous and completely unprofessional, but in the end it makes complete sense for him and AA should not be blamed for losing out on him.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I just don't understand how that makes sense on a one year deal

Unless we're really overvaluing the #57 pick or whatever.

He wasn't referencing the one year deal, he was answering Blair's question regarding media\fan assumptions that there have been monetary and contract length limitations placed on him by ownership.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

"I'm actually pretty excited to see Romero today."

Yikes, Alex, stop...they're already going to light you up lol.

 

[Saul Goodman]

The NL wasn't an option until the Braves lost Medlin. AA's spin on this is nonsense.

Which is why it was smart of him to wait things out. MIght suck for AA and the Jays but that's life in the AL east.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Not really, because he said they basically had him signed last week at some point. It was Santana's choice to nix the deal and wait for other teams to jump in.

Put yourself in Santana's position. If you were looking to re-establish your value to hit a homerun on a longterm deal, would you rather pitch primarily for one season against the Phillies, Marlins, Nats and Mets, or against the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays and Orioles?

The path that Santana took to sign with the Braves was ridiculous and completely unprofessional, but in the end it makes complete sense for him and AA should not be blamed for losing out on him.

That is very well put.

 

[Greek_physique]

Ben Wallace released by Astros

Astros released 1B Brett Wallace.
Things have gotten pretty bleak for Wallace, a player who was already designated for assignment and passed through waivers in February. Even as a non-roster player, Houston decided to pass on the former All-World prospect who is a .242/.313/.391 career hitter over 1,077 major league plate appearances. "He's been a big part of this organization for past few years, but we didn't see a role for him at the big league level," Astros GM Jeff Luhnow said. The former first-round pick will offer Triple-A depth to a new organization and not much more.

 

[topched]

"I'm actually pretty excited to see Romero today."

Yikes, Alex, stop...they're already going to light you up lol.

Lol I cringed when I heard "I'm really excited to see Romero today , his stuff in his last outing was electric, we haven't seen that in 2 years"

Then I realized.... This is pretty much what we need to contend. And AA didn't shy away from that sentiment, basically he thinks this rotation is good enough if we catch lightning in a bottle aka morrow healthy, hutch good etc.

So... If Ricky returns to all star form, were golden guys

 

[leafs in five]

i understand having reservations about Ervin. it's just that the team has no chance whatsoever to compete this season with this rotation which blows. like maybe they'll win 84 games and finish 5.5 back of the second wild card. but it's hard to get excited when that seems like the best case scenario.

 

[topched]

i understand having reservations about Ervin. it's just that the team has no chance whatsoever to compete this season with this rotation which blows. like maybe they'll win 84 games and finish 5.5 back of the second wild card. but it's hard to get excited when that seems like the best case scenario.

I said this long before the wekeend when the Santana thing blew up.

AA is not satisfied with this rotation at all, he's still looking to upgrade via trade.

The best we can hope for is some surprises or good performance from the bottom guys in the first 2 months of the year. Once teams start falling out of the race, that's when we may have a shot at picking up a good starter on a bad team.

No survival mode doesn't sound great, but it is what it is now

 

[weems]

This should really send a clear message to all those guys that did nothing this off season but bash the **** out of AA and the blue jays. This is a perfect signing especially with an off season approaching with a handful of ace pitchers.

Yep this signing really sent me a clear message alright.

 

[weems]

"Speaking of pitching, GM Alex Anthopoulos told media (including The Toronto Star) that the rotation is "the most glaring hole on this team and that’s the most glaring area we need to address."

 

[Longshot]

As much as this FA class was weak etc etc

At the end of the day AA came out and said SP is our biggest need we are going to address....

He has failed. Plain and simple

Bingo.

They did this to themselves. Their own words and promises caused all this anger and resentment.

I'm a fan and, frankly, I feel I was lied to and duped by this organization.

Paul Beeston and AA said last year if ticket sales and revenue went up that they would spend more. They said that. Not me. Not other fans. Not the media. Not the Rogers suits. That's what team management said.

And I believed them. I went to half a dozen games. I drank the $9 beers. I bought shirts, hats, etc for myself and my daughter. I drank the Blue Jays Kool Aid fully believing they would live up to their promise.

And the team stunk - mainly due to injuries. It sucked, but - based on what they had promised - they were going to re-load in the off season if things didn't work out last year. After all, why go all in one year and if it didn't work stop and not bother? That wouldn't make any sense.

Then the off season began and AA said specifically he would be out to upgrade the starting rotation. That was the biggest need. He said that. Not the fans. Not the Rogers people. Not the media. That's what AA said.

And what happened? One by one all the starters available went elsewhere. Every, single one of them. We're only talking about Santana today because he was the last starter to sign. They didn't even qualify Josh Johnson - who 12 months ago they were telling us was the key to the entire trade with Miami.

Were any of the available starters perfect fits? Nope. There was risk to signing any one of them. Monetary risk. Injury risk. But guess what, this is sports. There are risks any time any player gets on the field. Relying on Happ (career 5th starter), Hutchinson (11 career starts, one major arm surgery) and Stroman (no experience at all) to be 2/5s of a rotation on a "contender" is no more risky than giving Santana an extra year to secure his services. It's a different kind of risk, but it's still risk.

This off season has been a failure - based on what team management told the fans.

But, with all of that said, it doesn't mean this team can't be good. It may all work out. The young pitchers may play really well. There are still 162 games left to be played.

We have to see what happens. But there is nothing wrong with being disappointed based on the promises that were made by management.

 

[Longshot]

AA basically says he had Ervin signed on Saturday and then his agent bailed.

Sounds like another excuse from an organization that has been making excuses all winter.

Either he is signed or he isn't signed.

Santana did not sign with the Jays.

 

[weems]

You know its bad when Stoeten is calling out the Jays

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2014/0...hocalypse-now/

 

[topched]

Sounds like another excuse from an organization that has been making excuses all winter.

Either he is signed or he isn't signed.

Santana did not sign with the Jays.

Agreed on this. It's not losing Santana for me, it's not getting any SP upgrade

The biggest risk in playing the market the way AA did is being left without a dance partner when everything is said and done.

AA missed out on Ervin and now is out of options. This was a very real consequence all along of not striking early.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

You know its bad when Stoeten is calling out the Jays

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2014/0...hocalypse-now/

He's been calling them out since early January, I believe.

 

[Longshot]

Agreed on this. It's not losing Santana for me, it's not getting any SP upgrade

The biggest risk in playing the market the way AA did is being left without a dance partner when everything is said and done.

AA missed out on Ervin and now is out of options. This was a very real consequence all along of not striking early.

They said they would spend. They said they would improve the rotation.

They didn't. They caused all this anger with their own words.

 

[TootooTrain]

You know its bad when Stoeten is calling out the Jays

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2014/0...hocalypse-now/

He's had a bee up his bonnet about the jays for a while. Not really surprising.

Santana played the whole market. I'm not quite sure what his motives were in this whole situation.

 

[Longshot]

Lol I cringed when I heard "I'm really excited to see Romero today , his stuff in his last outing was electric, we haven't seen that in 2 years"

Then I realized.... This is pretty much what we need to contend. And AA didn't shy away from that sentiment, basically he thinks this rotation is good enough if we catch lightning in a bottle aka morrow healthy, hutch good etc.

So... If Ricky returns to all star form, were golden guys

Wow. You know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when you're telling fans to be excited about Romero - a guy the organization has written off on multiple occasions.

But, stranger things have happened. Maybe he does come back. It seems so long ago, but it wasn't really that long ago that Romero was the ace of the staff.

 

[dredeye]

Yep this signing really sent me a clear message alright.

Oh how my face is red. It was reported we signed him at the time. The fact that we didn't is unfortunate but the point stands that all those people crying foul on how rogers is cheap and AA can't do anything were wrong. He had the money to spend and thought he had spent it. Santana backed out. How is that his fault?