We need more Sweden vs Finland hockey

[Syan Ruter]

If the leagues merged, which, btw, would be totally awesome, I feel that the two conferences would be horizontal as opposed to a Swedish conference and a Finnish conference. That way, there would be more Finn-VS-Swede action which we all love. Imagine Helsingfors IFK starting a rivalry with Stockholms AIK.

But of course, if this were to happen, they could work out a way to have the two conferences in both countries, as opposed to my idea, and just make sure that Swedish and Finnish teams meet like three or four times. Finnish fans would really be open for a "Scandinavian Hockey League" (yes, I know, I know, Finland's not a part of Scandinavia per see, but heck, it sounds good). What do you Swedes think, would it be great or not?


Now when I think about it, the league could be called the "Nordic Hockey League"...The abbreviation would be epic

 

[Blasb]

Not trying to be negative but for real this is highly unlikely to ever happen even though how much one would want it to...

 

[vorky]

Not trying to be negative but for real this is highly unlikely to ever happen even though how much one would want it to...

That I said many times in this thread. Thank God, there is at least one poster who got it.

 

[icing]

That I said many times in this thread. Thank God, there is at least one poster who got it.

That's just the thing. No one has said this will happen.
IT IS unlikely to happen. But you are saying IT CAN'T happen and present ******** "proof" of why it can't. Get your facts straight.

 

[Syan Ruter]

That's just the thing. No one has said this will happen.
IT IS unlikely to happen. But you are saying IT CAN'T happen and present ******** "proof" of why it can't. Get your facts straight.

This. Aaaaaaaaand imout.

 

[KHLJokers*]

Im going to watch tomorrow JYP vs. HV71. JYP's home ring is near NHL size so i think Hv71 will get few cuts in their faces

 

[Jussi]

Im going to watch tomorrow JYP vs. HV71. JYP's home ring is near NHL size so i think Hv71 will get few cuts in their faces

It's 28m X 60m. The usual hybrid size.

 

[KHLJokers*]

It's 28m X 60m. The usual hybrid size.

They had new ring this summer. Its 27 x 60 now.

 

[Jussi]

They had new ring this summer. Its 27 x 60 now.

Source/link? I know they have a new "safety rink".

 

[21]

No, what we need is one or two teams joining the KHL, following Jokerit.

KHL may finally be the start of a great interesting hockey league in Europe if top teams from Sweden, Germany, Switzerland etc will follow.

 

[vorky]

No, what we need is one or two teams joining the KHL, following Jokerit.

KHL may finally be the start of a great interesting hockey league in Europe if top teams from Sweden, Germany, Switzerland etc will follow.

It seems not all Swedes are KHL haters, the myth is over

 

[21]

It seems not all Swedes are KHL haters, the myth is over

I'm not sure, maybe some swedes are suffering from little brother complex towards the huge neighbour in east, Russia. ;-) Also there are lots of people in Sweden who prefer soft technical tactical SEL hockey (sometimes boring) over anything else, including the NHL and KHL. We also have a pretty strong national fan culture in Sweden, people who live for loving their teams and hating their opponents. They will probably have a hard time hating new teams from Russia and rest of Europe, it simply won't be the same hatred. ;-)

I would love a KHL league with the best teams from Europe.

Fantastic, and the only league who could make this dream come true is the KHL. We need the money from Russia. ;-)

I'm not sure if it would be a success or not but worth a try?

 

[vorky]

I'm not sure, maybe some swedes are suffering from little brother complex towards the huge neighbour in east, Russia. ;-) Also there are lots of people in Sweden who prefer soft technical tactical SEL hockey (sometimes boring) over anything else, including the NHL and KHL. We also have a pretty strong national fan culture in Sweden, people who live for loving their teams and hating their opponents. They will probably have a hard time hating new teams from Russia and rest of Europe, it simply won't be the same hatred. ;-)

I would love a KHL league with the best teams from Europe.

Fantastic, and the only league who could make this dream come true is the KHL. We need the money from Russia. ;-)

I'm not sure if it would be a success or not but worth a try?

I agree with you.

It is naive to think that ET or "upgrade of ET" can be successfull in Europe. Especially if I read everywhere that clubs does not want to challenge KHL.. does not want to invest big money (because they dont have them). I would believe in ET project if biggest clubs like Eisbaren, Farjestad, HIFK etc came with budget over 25M euro (at least, better with over 40+). You know there are clubs with such budget in KHL...

Comparison with UEFA CL is a biggest mistake which can be made. Yes, CL is great idea but you need at least 3-4 league which are on same level ... the same level by quality of league and BUDGETS. This is not reality at all in hockey. Finnish and partly swedish clubs are not able to keep their best players (who does not sign in NHL), because they go to KHL... Look at FBK, they lost Salak and Lee, two good/best (?) players. It would not be problem if both signed with clubs playing ET.. but they signed in KHL. Maybe, maybe if FBK was in KHL, they would stay. At least, they would play the same league, the product of league would not decrease as it happened with ET after they leaving FBK.

As we know, many Euros playing in NA, not all have to play here. If they got paid at home, they would stay. Are ET clubs ready to attract them? What about KHL? One more time, you need big budgets to do so.

As I wrote, model with KHL as best euro league (including clubs from Germany etc) and ET as 2nd tier is acceptable for me. Honestly, I agree that Europe needs international competition, and not only a few clubs which joined/join KHL (Slovan, Lev, Riga, Minsk, Donbass, Jokerit). Look at football, there are clubs which play UEFA CL every year (like KHL) and 2nd tier clubs which play UEFA EL. There is only different in hockey, KHL is closed league and not fully developed. Barca, Real, MU, Bayern etc would create its own "KHL" if UEFA/FIFA was not so strong... IIHF is weak, so creating such league is possible. I see no problem here. On the other hand I understand fans which are against KHL.

What has been happening in european club hockey?

1) before KHL was created

national/domestic leagues existed, no international competition

2) KHL era

KHL was created with idea of closed/paneuro league
ET was created with idea of paralel/paneuro competition

Both KHL and ET have the same goal, to collect best euro clubs, to be best euro league/competition. I am convinced that league with more money/influence win the battle. Nowadays, KHL has more money/influence.

Lets have a look at North America. NHL existed for years, but WHA was created to challenge NHL, to be best league in NA or to merge with bigger/wealthier/established NHL (?). What happened? WHA clubs merged with NHL and WHA as league ceased.

Now back to Europe. What if, a few clubs of ET (biggest) merge/join KHL in future? Or vice versa, if ET has more money/power. I can imagine that best ET clubs join KHL in future. That does not have to mean that ET will cease, it would mean that their best club are not here anymore. De facto, ET is definitelly 2nd tier. I am sure guys from Gazprom/KHL has worked with such scenario...

 

[KRM]

So what are you saying, we should just fold the SHL and follow Russian clubs?

 

[vorky]

So what are you saying, we should just fold the SHL?

No, I did not say it.

So what are you saying, we should follow Russian clubs?

You always have a choice to follow league/clubs you want. If you want follow russian clubs, you can.

 

[21]

It's very difficult, not likely but if it worked it would be fantastic. KHL including teams from best European hockey countries, even a team from Norway should be included, one of the richest countries in Europe, no problem.

One or two swedish teams in the KHL league like that would simply be fun.

SEL would live on, no problem, it's a great product even though I would L O V E small sized rinks.

It's a big risk KHL experiment would fail though, lack of audience, fan and national media interest etc. Investors would have to be patient, willing to take a chance and ready to give it at least three-fours years. The debate in Sweden would go crazy but the Russians wouldn't care. :-D (I love it)

 

[Jonimaus]

I'm not sure, maybe some swedes are suffering from little brother complex towards the huge neighbour in east, Russia. ;-)

Wait what? How can you suffer from little brother complex towards a country which we are better than in every single important aspect? What could swedes possibly be envious of russia? Sure they are better in football but that's about it. That's like saying Canada should have a little brother complex towards USA. Canada beats USA in everything important other than sports.

Like with Darth Yoda, are you actually swedish? Your way of reasoning is rarely if ever seen here.

 

[21]

Wait what? How can you suffer from little brother complex towards a country which we are better than in every single important aspect? What could swedes possibly be envious of russia? Sure they are better in football but that's about it. That's like saying Canada should have a little brother complex towards USA. Canada beats USA in everything important other than sports.

Like with Darth Yoda, are you actually swedish? Your way of reasoning is rarely if ever seen here.

Yes, I am a Swede living in Stockholm.

A Swede loving physical offensive NHL hockey but SEL not so much. I love to follow the Swedish players in the NHL. I would love NHL sized rinks in Sweden to make it a more fun fast paced offensive hockey (many former NHLers in Sweden is sharing this view).

I think it would be fun trying an NHL like League like KHL with one or two teams from Sweden and the rest of Europe. SEL will live on.

KHL is the only League (and Russia the country) in europe which could make this happen, they have the money and money talks. Like I have written before in this thread there are unfortunately small chances to success though but I would like a serious try?

My "little brother" thing was a bit stupid, I'm sorry about that. It shouldn't take focus from my hockey views though. What I do know is that Russia is growing in a very rapid pace with more millioners than anywhere in Europe. In Sweden we always say "It's the maffia, I would never do business there. etc etc"... Yes, they do have some serious problems with corruptance etc, but things are happening in a very fast pace. We should welcome them and doing business with them instead of being afraid and avoiding them.

The world is changing, Russia is changing, europe is changing, hockey is changing, money talks.

Russia is a hockey crazy country and they have the money, we'll have to wait and see what happens with Jokerit and how it turns out.

From the net: Russia is a country that spans both Europe and Asia, but only about one-quarter of Russia lies in Europe. Despite this, Russia is still larger than Europe by millions of square kilometers. Russia is the largest country in the world and is larger than three, almost four, continents.

 

[vorky]

Yes, I am a Swede living in Stockholm.

A Swede loving physical offensive NHL hockey but SEL not so much. I love to follow the Swedish players in the NHL. I would love NHL sized rinks in Sweden to make it a more fun fast paced offensive hockey (many former NHLers in Sweden is sharing this view).

I think it would be fun trying an NHL like League like KHL with one or two teams from Sweden and the rest of Europe. SEL will live on.

KHL is the only League (and Russia the country) in europe which could make this happen, they have the money and money talks. Like I have written before in this thread there are unfortunately small chances to success though but I would like a serious try?

My "little brother" thing was a bit stupid, I'm sorry about that. It shouldn't take focus from my hockey views though. What I do know is that Russia is growing in a very rapid pace with more millioners than anywhere in Europe. In Sweden we always say "It's the maffia, I would never do business there. etc etc"... Yes, they do have some serious problems with corruptance etc, but things are happening in a very fast pace. We should welcome them and doing business with them instead of being afraid and avoiding them.

The world is changing, Russia is changing, europe is changing, hockey is changing, money talks.

Russia is a hockey crazy country and they have the money, we'll have to wait and see what happens with Jokerit and how it turns out.

From the net: Russia is a country that spans both Europe and Asia, but only about one-quarter of Russia lies in Europe. Despite this, Russia is still larger than Europe by millions of square kilometers. Russia is the largest country in the world and is larger than three, almost four, continents.

You are absolutelly correct with bold part, btw I agree with rest as well.

KHL came with idea of pan-euro competition. European clubs/league especially Swedes and Czechs, dont want to cooperate with KHL because league is based/govern in/by Russia. The hell, what an argument!!! What if Germans came with the same idea (closed league) as Russia/KHL?? Would Swedes/Finns/Czechs jump to train and welcome the product? IMO they would, because it is govern by Germans. Interesting right?

Another problem, why Sweden has refused joining KHL, is with Loob and co., powerful men in swedish hockey. They know, they would be "poor neighbours" in KHL, so they opted to be "wealthy/powerful" within Sweden or ET. This tactic of Loob failed, because KHL does not care about Loob and co. They (Loob) though they have more leverage, but they dont. Nice example is "uprade of ET", ET would like to persuade KHL to join... why?? Why does ET need participation of KHL? I tell you why, ET wants to increase its product, because ET knows that KHL is much more popular/influential than anything else in hockey Europe (not saying about fans, but ppl who HAS BIG MONEY/POWER). Only problem for Loob is that he thinks following: "KHL wants to increase level of ET, because considers ET as future of euro hockey" No, that is 2nd mistake by Loob KHL joins ET to persuade german/etc clubs to join KHL instead Btw, I talked to a few DEL clubs THEY FOLLOW KHL VERY CLOSELY. That says a lot!

 

[icing]

Btw, I talked to a few DEL clubs THEY FOLLOW KHL VERY CLOSELY. That says a lot!

So? Let some German teams join KHL then.

But I still don't see any point from you regarding Swedish hockey and the Swedish league. Regardless of Swedish teams (one or two) joining the KHL or not, we would still have our domestic league pushing for a better product. That is what we are discussing here. That is what Fin/Swe co-op is all about.

 

[vorky]

So? Let some German teams join KHL then.

But I still don't see any point from you regarding Swedish hockey and the Swedish league. Regardless of Swedish teams (one or two) joining the KHL or not, we would still have our domestic league pushing for a better product. That is what we are discussing here. That is what Fin/Swe co-op is all about.

I have discussed with 21, is not it obvious?

 

[icing]

I have discussed with 21, is not it obvious?

In a thread about?

Seriously. The answer "We shouldnt, we should just join the KHL" is not a valid response to "We should do something with the fins".

 

[21]

Sorry, back to thread topic. ;-)

I wouldn't mind some kind of new or merged hockey league between Sweden and Finland, not at all. If accepted by fans (which is a huge question mark) it would probably be good for hockey in both countries.

This doesn't change my views about the KHL though. The KHL is the most realistic alternative to an NHL like league including teams from all big European hockey countries and I would love a serious try.

 

[vorky]

In a thread about?

Seriously. The answer "We shouldnt, we should just join the KHL" is not a valid response to "We should do something with the fins".

Finnish club is going to be part of KHL, it is called Jokerit Helsinki. Maybe you have never heard about it? All in all, one of top league playing in finnish territory is going to be KHL. Therefore bringing KHL to thread´s topic is relevant.

If I understand correctly, 21 has an idea of swe/fin clubs joining KHL and rest of SHL/SML can merge or create swe-fin league. All in all, KHL is relevant again if we accept the idea. Then, attitude of swedish clubs/hockey community is relevant as well.

Honestly, I can not imagine how you can discuss fin/swe league without considering KHL and ET. That is simply not possible IF you want serious discussion.

Hope now you see the point.

 

[icing]

Finnish club is going to be part of KHL, it is called Jokerit Helsinki. Maybe you have never heard about it?

Noooo. REALLY!

Maybe we should rename Jokerit to "THE TEAM REPRESENTING ALL OF FINLAND AND THE ONLY TEAM IN FINLAND SINCE ALL THE OTHER TEAMS JUST QUIT" Hockey Club.

Finnish club is going to be part of KHL, it is called Jokerit Helsinki. Maybe you have never heard about it? All in all, one of top league playing in finnish territory is going to be KHL. Therefore bringing KHL to thread´s topic is relevant.

If I understand correctly, 21 has an idea of swe/fin clubs joining KHL and rest of SHL/SML can merge or create swe-fin league. All in all, KHL is relevant again if we accept the idea. Then, attitude of swedish clubs/hockey community is relevant as well.

Honestly, I can not imagine how you can discuss fin/swe league without considering KHL and ET. That is simply not possible IF you want serious discussion.

Hope now you see the point.

Well lets just quit here since you started rambling about something else again and can't seem to keep things apart. You really do not have a point since we are not discussing the same thing.

And the bolded text:
Yeah, that idea has never been written, or mentioned, by anyone before 21 mentioned it. No one has never mentioned that idea before. Never. I wonder what this entire thread is about? Why bother reading at all.