GDT: WDSF Game 6: Golden Knights @ Wild - 8:00 PM CT - NBC, TVAS, SN, BSN

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Bazeek

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:wild

Greenway - Eriksson-Ek - Foligno
Zuccarello - Rask- Kaprizov
Parise - Hartman - Fiala
Sturm - Bonino - Bjugstad

Suter - Spurgeon
Brodin - Dumba
Cole - Addison

Talbot


:vegas

Tuch - Stephenson - Stone
Marchessault - Karlsson - Smith
Janmark - Roy - Kolesar
Carrier - Brown - Reeves

Martinez - Pietrangelo
Theodore - McNabb
Whitecloud - Hague

Fleury

*Lines subject to change

----------------------------

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Bazeek

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Everything is bad. Discuss.

Also: force a Game 6 and still can't get a 7 PM start time. Maybe we should just move the whole state to Pacific time each spring.
 

16thOverallSaveUs

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Chandler Stephenson was sure a nice find by Vegas. We might need to find a guy like that this summer in addition to a top center:

Kaprizov-1C, not Rask-Zuccarello
Boldy-Stephenson-Fiala
GREEF
Dewar-Sturm-whoever
 

Bazeek

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Chandler Stephenson was sure a nice find by Vegas. We might need to find a guy like that this summer in addition to a top center:

Kaprizov-1C, not Rask-Zuccarello
Boldy-Stephenson-Fiala
GREEF
Dewar-Sturm-whoever
I was kind of hoping we had something similar with Hartman at center, and I like a lot about Hartman's game but the chemistry with his linemates hasn't really been there. Of course he did have that Game 1 with about a million scoring chances so maybe I'm not giving him enough credit.
 

SMTHook

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anyone else struggling at work today after another late game? i forgot my phone at home, was late, and ordered chipotle forgetting i have food here :help:
Yes. I'm East Coast also. Extra hour. I hit the hay at 2am and when I woke it seemed I never really slept.
 
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16thOverallSaveUs

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I was kind of hoping we had something similar with Hartman at center, and I like a lot about Hartman's game but the chemistry with his linemates hasn't really been there. Of course he did have that Game 1 with about a million scoring chances so maybe I'm not giving him enough credit.
That’s funny, because game one was when I thought to myself, we gotta get somebody else between Zucc and Kaprizov. We need someone who can finish
 

16thOverallSaveUs

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Pass or Take: (Eichel Edition)

Ek + Dumba + 1st + 1st

Fiala + Dumba + 1st + 1st

Dumba + Rask + Boldy + 1st

Dumba + Rossi + Boldy

I wouldn’t do all of these, but these are just some of the suggestions I’ve seen
 

AKL

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Chandler Stephenson wouldn't really be an answer, but it would be better than what we have. He still produces like a low end 2nd liner, but I guess it works well enough for Vegas for now.

I hate the idea of signing another old stopgap like Krejci, Zajac, whoever. I don't think that does anything for us, and I think in the long term we're better served by being bad again.

Next tier of guys like RNH/Danault doesn't really do anything either. We're overpaying them for their worst years ahead. By the way, RNH was moved away from center pretty much full time this year, and Ryan McLeod was playing center on his line in the playoffs. Not a guy I want to give something like 6x6.5 or 7x7 to.

I really think we should be looking via trade for a buy low/reclamation candidate who could break out in our top 6. My list of top targets would be something like:
Sean Monahan
Barrett Hayton
Sam Reinhart
Sam Bennett (Alternatively, if they opt to keep Bennett, maybe Lundell is available for something? Probably not though)
Tyson Jost (Maybe)
Jack Roslovic
Jesperi Kotkaniemi
Luke Kunin ;)
Pavel Zacha (Maybe not anymore after the season he had)
Morgan Frost
Nolan Patrick (Maybe)

Basically any guy 24-25ish and younger who might be trapped, need a change of scenery, whatever. Or any NHL ready prospects. I probably missed some guys who could fit. I also intentionally left guys like Dylan Strome out because I think he has nothing to offer a top 6 with Kaprizov, Zuccarello, Fiala, Boldy, Rossi.

These all depend on price too. I would obviously pay more for Zacha, Reinhart, Monahan than I would for Patrick, Jost, Kunin, but regardless of the player, I wouldn't give up any of the big 4. I would possibly begrudgingly move Fiala if the deal made sense for us and the center we were getting back is DEFINITELY better than Fiala. So none of the guys I listed.
 

Bazeek

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That’s funny, because game one was when I thought to myself, we gotta get somebody else between Zucc and Kaprizov. We need someone who can finish
Yeah, weird game. Finishing off opportunistic goals is something Hartman's usually pretty good at, but he's also usually played on more north-south lines. Zuccarello-Kaprizov is a different beast than Sturm-Bjugstad (or whatever).
 
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AKL

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Copied from the GDT yesterday, concerning Dumba's future and the ED:
As of now, without any trades or negotiating with Seattle to protect anyone specifically, I would anticipate protecting Parise, Zuccarello, Ek, Fiala, Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Dumba, Kahkonen- which means losing Greenway, most likely.

I'm still talking to Parise about waiving, if he does, you protect Greenway. If he doesn't want to waive, I'm talking about mutual termination. If he chooses not to do that, he can be bought out. I'm not paying anyone to take Parise while still having recapture to worry about.

Then, I'm talking to Seattle about paying for Dumba. We gain leverage from not having to worry about Parise's NMC. So we protect Greenway AND Dumba, and they can either Soucy, Foligno, or Talbot (maybe Menell?). But maybe they want to toss a first next year or a prospect they get in another trade our way to ensure Dumba is left exposed. Then we get a return for him while not losing anyone else. If they don't want to pay for Dumba (could even work for Greenway), then they just take Soucy or Foligno.

Finally, even after navigating through the ED with Dumba, I'm trading him either in the summer or at the trade deadline for a 1st+prospect, similar to Zucker.

Dumba, Parise's buy out, and Bonino/Johansson/Cole contracts expiring should provide us with the space to re-sign Kaprizov, Fiala and Ek, who I don't think will cost as much as some do. Rask's contract ending next season covers the Parise savings going away. The year after that, Talbot's contract ends, and the year after that, Zuccarello's contract ends. Presumably the cap starts going up again somewhere in there as well.


There are some interesting ideas here. First, the thought of trying to see if Seattle would for the privilege to choose Dumba. I don't think I've seen that discussion before. It would be big question that they would want him that badly, but it sure doesn't hurt to ask.

Second interesting point: By this post, Dumba is considered to be of much greater value than either of Greenway or Foligno. That's worth discussion, but only if we can talk about why we think whatever we think.

Third, AKL says that given a choice between Greenway, Foligno, Soucy or Talbot, that Seattle chooses Talbot. That's a value judgment worth discussing as well. It would go along with: If Parise waives, and you protect 4-4-1, who is the 4th forward to be protected?

Fourth, concerning Parise: There is no way to avoid something like 20M in cap space on him in the future. Trade, and the recapture penalty will come back to us, because he isn't playing out 4 more years. Buyout, and we still have to pay the rest of the contract. Post buyout cap hit would be: 2.4, 6.4, 7.4, 7.4 + 4 years at 833K. The last 4 years are not such a big deal. If Rask is not bought out, as AKL says, then his 4M perfectly slots into the increase in cap hit for 22-23 for Parise's contract, which makes planning easier. On the other hand, trading him, and figuring that he retires in 2 more years yields....0, 0, 7.5, 7.5, 5 for cap hits, or something like that. Clearly, this is roughly the same, except that it affords a window for a 2 year rental 2C using Parise's cap space, and the 5M at the end happens in 25-26, when Suter's contract is also gone, so there might be room to mitigate it there to some degree.

These are the questions. AKL's whole scheme works just fine with the cap, since in any case, Dumba's contract goes (even if through a trade).

Thoughts??

Bringing this back to the GDT because that's where it started (mods can move it back to the trade thread if they want). The only thing of note I have is the bolded part. I think Seattle takes Greenway>Soucy>Foligno>Menell>Talbot in that order. So Greenway is the most at risk for being taken, Talbot is last.
 

nickschultzfan

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One thing I would also maybe gamble on is slide passes to empty space in the middle of the ice. It is high risk that Vegas just picks it up and turns and goes. But Vegas is flooding 4 guys to surround the puck carrier that anything that is out of the ordinary can throw them off. They are expecting (1) carrying in (pinch on blueline), (2) nearside dump-in (nearside D retrieval), (3) ring around dump-in (Fleury retrieval, farside D breakout)), (4) short side pass or hitting the breaks after entry (back pressure forward smothers).

Drop the puck to empty space on farside, high part of the Ozone and let your trailing forward or D pick it up with speed for a clean break to the net, while your F1 and F2 drive to net.
 

Bazeek

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Chandler Stephenson wouldn't really be an answer, but it would be better than what we have. He still produces like a low end 2nd liner, but I guess it works well enough for Vegas for now.

I hate the idea of signing another old stopgap like Krejci, Zajac, whoever. I don't think that does anything for us, and I think in the long term we're better served by being bad again.

Next tier of guys like RNH/Danault doesn't really do anything either. We're overpaying them for their worst years ahead. By the way, RNH was moved away from center pretty much full time this year, and Ryan McLeod was playing center on his line in the playoffs. Not a guy I want to give something like 6x6.5 or 7x7 to.

I really think we should be looking via trade for a buy low/reclamation candidate who could break out in our top 6. My list of top targets would be something like:
Sean Monahan
Barrett Hayton
Sam Reinhart
Sam Bennett (Alternatively, if they opt to keep Bennett, maybe Lundell is available for something? Probably not though)
Tyson Jost (Maybe)
Jack Roslovic
Jesperi Kotkaniemi
Luke Kunin ;)
Pavel Zacha (Maybe not anymore after the season he had)
Morgan Frost
Nolan Patrick (Maybe)

Basically any guy 24-25ish and younger who might be trapped, need a change of scenery, whatever. Or any NHL ready prospects. I probably missed some guys who could fit. I also intentionally left guys like Dylan Strome out because I think he has nothing to offer a top 6 with Kaprizov, Zuccarello, Fiala, Boldy, Rossi.

These all depend on price too. I would obviously pay more for Zacha, Reinhart, Monahan than I would for Patrick, Jost, Kunin, but regardless of the player, I wouldn't give up any of the big 4. I would possibly begrudgingly move Fiala if the deal made sense for us and the center we were getting back is DEFINITELY better than Fiala. So none of the guys I listed.
Using this series as kind of a sanity check, Zacha's one that I find interesting. I don't think New Jersey is necessarily looking to get rid of him, but he's probably not off limits either. And he has a mix of size/skating that's similar to Ek with more raw skill thrown into the mix, which sure would be nice against Vegas.

That said, there still seems to be a lot of debate among Devils fans about whether he's any good at center or if he should really just be played on the wing. I haven't seen him play enough lately to have any input there.
 

16thOverallSaveUs

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Chandler Stephenson wouldn't really be an answer, but it would be better than what we have. He still produces like a low end 2nd liner, but I guess it works well enough for Vegas for now.

I hate the idea of signing another old stopgap like Krejci, Zajac, whoever. I don't think that does anything for us, and I think in the long term we're better served by being bad again.

Next tier of guys like RNH/Danault doesn't really do anything either. We're overpaying them for their worst years ahead. By the way, RNH was moved away from center pretty much full time this year, and Ryan McLeod was playing center on his line in the playoffs. Not a guy I want to give something like 6x6.5 or 7x7 to.

I really think we should be looking via trade for a buy low/reclamation candidate who could break out in our top 6. My list of top targets would be something like:
Sean Monahan
Barrett Hayton
Sam Reinhart
Sam Bennett (Alternatively, if they opt to keep Bennett, maybe Lundell is available for something? Probably not though)
Tyson Jost (Maybe)
Jack Roslovic
Jesperi Kotkaniemi
Luke Kunin ;)
Pavel Zacha (Maybe not anymore after the season he had)
Morgan Frost
Nolan Patrick (Maybe)

Basically any guy 24-25ish and younger who might be trapped, need a change of scenery, whatever. Or any NHL ready prospects. I probably missed some guys who could fit. I also intentionally left guys like Dylan Strome out because I think he has nothing to offer a top 6 with Kaprizov, Zuccarello, Fiala, Boldy, Rossi.

These all depend on price too. I would obviously pay more for Zacha, Reinhart, Monahan than I would for Patrick, Jost, Kunin, but regardless of the player, I wouldn't give up any of the big 4. I would possibly begrudgingly move Fiala if the deal made sense for us and the center we were getting back is DEFINITELY better than Fiala. So none of the guys I listed.
I think Reinhart is the guy we have to go after. I just don’t know what the cost would be
 
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16thOverallSaveUs

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Using this series as kind of a sanity check, Zacha's one that I find interesting. I don't think New Jersey is necessarily looking to get rid of him, but he's probably not off limits either. And he has a mix of size/skating that's similar to Ek with more raw skill thrown into the mix, which sure would be nice against Vegas.

That said, there still seems to be a lot of debate among Devils fans about whether he's any good at center or if he should really just be played on the wing. I haven't seen him play enough lately to have any input there.
I’ve liked Zacha as well. Apparently, he’s not a center though. Still would take a shot at him if the price is right
 
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Bazeek

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Bringing this back to the GDT because that's where it started (mods can move it back to the trade thread if they want). The only thing of note I have is the bolded part. I think Seattle takes Greenway>Soucy>Foligno>Menell>Talbot in that order. So Greenway is the most at risk for being taken, Talbot is last.
I'll ask everyone to try not to veer too far from playoff talk, but similar to Game 5 I'm kind of looking at this as another last meal before the execution. Eat, drink and be merry...
 
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AKL

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I was kind of hoping we had something similar with Hartman at center, and I like a lot about Hartman's game but the chemistry with his linemates hasn't really been there. Of course he did have that Game 1 with about a million scoring chances so maybe I'm not giving him enough credit.

I hate to beat a dead horse (no I don't), but I do wonder if Kunin could have been our Stephenson. He never really got a chance to play with Fiala, and he definitely never played with Kaprizov. It obviously would have taken a coach committing to playing him at center and learning that position. Sure would have been nice to keep him past 22 and find out.

Pass or Take: (Eichel Edition)

Ek + Dumba + 1st + 1st

Fiala + Dumba + 1st + 1st

Dumba + Rask + Boldy + 1st

Dumba + Rossi + Boldy

I wouldn’t do all of these, but these are just some of the suggestions I’ve seen

I would pass on all of them, personally. I think if Fiala and Dumba are both included, we don't also include two 1sts. Frankly I would lean towards including a Beckman, Khusnutdinov, Firstov, Khovanov type prospect instead of either 1st. Dumba is already a 1st+, Fiala is worth more than Dumba, so they can get the rest of the value from lesser pieces.

Fiala+Dumba+Beckman+2nd or something like that. I'm really averse to moving Boldy or Rossi. I think, especially if we're going to trade for Eichel, we need good talent on ELC's and 2nd contracts, and our 1sts aren't going to be there for a couple of years still (but we need them when they do come to navigate Kaprizov and Ek's contracts while still having Suter, Spurgeon on the books, as well as raises for Boldy and whoever else we might acquire).

ELC's and RFA contracts are gold to Cup contenders. You need guys who can outperform their contracts. UFA's and a lot of trades don't give you that.
 

Wild11MN

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Bringing this back to the GDT because that's where it started (mods can move it back to the trade thread if they want). The only thing of note I have is the bolded part. I think Seattle takes Greenway>Soucy>Foligno>Menell>Talbot in that order. So Greenway is the most at risk for being taken, Talbot is last.
I'm still not convinced Talbot is exposed. Would Seattle really take KK when guys like Allen, Holtby, Vanacek, Ullmark, Driedger, Elvis, Khudobin are probably available? You've got to believe they want at least one veteran as a starter, and Talbot's probably better than the rest of the list. If they see him as the only legit 1G option, I could see him being the pick, even over Dumba/Greenway.
 

Mickey the mouse

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Seeing that Fluery struggled last night, only Kaprizov was solid. and Talbot won the game for Wild, and wild continue to struggle to score does Evason/BG:
1. F lines change up ?
2. Dress / sit a different player and who are they ?
3. Give Boldy a shot ?
 

AKL

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I think Reinhart is the guy we have to go after. I just don’t know what the cost would be

I agree in terms of being most publicly available, as well as the best player on a short list, he should be a top target. But yeah, the price is the hang up. I know Buffalo is going to be asking for a HAUL for him, and I'm not sure he's worth it. He's kind of like a slightly more appealing RNH to me. It would really depend on what we give up and the contract we sign him to.
 

AKL

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Seeing that Fluery struggled last night, only Kaprizov was solid. and Talbot won the game for Wild, and wild continue to struggle to score does Evason/BG:
1. F lines change up ?
2. Dress / sit a different player and who are they ?
3. Give Boldy a shot ?

No, no and no. Evason's back is against the wall, and he's going to return to what "worked" (even though it was pretty clear that the only thing that worked outside of a 5 minute stretch in the first period was Talbot). I'm anticipating the exact same lineup, same lines, everything. Dean's too much of a coward to try different things when they're losing, he sure isn't going to change anything after a win in an elimination game.
 

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I hate to beat a dead horse (no I don't), but I do wonder if Kunin could have been our Stephenson. He never really got a chance to play with Fiala, and he definitely never played with Kaprizov. It obviously would have taken a coach committing to playing him at center and learning that position. Sure would have been nice to keep him past 22 and find out.



I would pass on all of them, personally. I think if Fiala and Dumba are both included, we don't also include two 1sts. Frankly I would lean towards including a Beckman, Khusnutdinov, Firstov, Khovanov type prospect instead of either 1st. Dumba is already a 1st+, Fiala is worth more than Dumba, so they can get the rest of the value from lesser pieces.

Fiala+Dumba+Beckman+2nd or something like that. I'm really averse to moving Boldy or Rossi. I think, especially if we're going to trade for Eichel, we need good talent on ELC's and 2nd contracts, and our 1sts aren't going to be there for a couple of years still (but we need them when they do come to navigate Kaprizov and Ek's contracts while still having Suter, Spurgeon on the books, as well as raises for Boldy and whoever else we might acquire).

ELC's and RFA contracts are gold to Cup contenders. You need guys who can outperform their contracts. UFA's and a lot of trades don't give you that.
Yeah, I wouldn’t move Boldy or Rossi. I’m more willing to good Roster players to compensate for that if the value is offset. That’s why the top scenario is the one I’m most intruiged by. Maybe even swap Ek for Greenway.

Just looking at Packages we may have to beat for Eichel:

VGK: Tuch + Krebs + 1st (They’d have to make the cap work)
CGY:Tkachuk + Zary + 1st

we I definetly don’t think it has to be Eichel, but watching this series definetly shows how much work we still have to do (in case some didn’t know).
 

Bazeek

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I hate to beat a dead horse (no I don't), but I do wonder if Kunin could have been our Stephenson. He never really got a chance to play with Fiala, and he definitely never played with Kaprizov. It obviously would have taken a coach committing to playing him at center and learning that position. Sure would have been nice to keep him past 22 and find out.
Maybe, though I think he'd still be played at RW if he was here. That's where they have him in Nashville, no?
 
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