GDT: WCSF - Game 1| Blues @ Avs| 8:30, TNT|

[Brian39]

I will never understand why we weren't in Colorado on Saturday. I lived in Colorado (both the front range and higher up into the mountains) for almost a decade and had tons of people visit me from St. Louis. Most of them suffered adverse effects for the first couple days and then were back to feeling closer to normal by day 3 or 4. It absolutely takes longer than that to get fully acclimated, but it isn't an on/off switch where you are completely not acclimated and then suddenly fully acclimated. It is a gradual process and the worst of it is usually the first couple days. We looked like a team that was out of gas. Just an atrocious decision.

We were thoroughly outplayed and we didn't have much business getting into OT. Binner was fantastic and also got a decent chunk of puck luck with 5 posts and EJ whiffing on a shot (allowing Binner to make a great desperation stop on the goal line). Even with him playing that well, Colorado really should have had another goal or two in regulation. Tough to squander that type of goaltending performance.

With that said, I don't think that capitalizing on that performance was our only avenue to winning the series. The Rangers got badly outplayed in game 1 against the Pens and squandered Shesterkin's best performance of the series. Then they won 4 of the next 6 to win the series. I don't think we're so outmatched by Colorado that we need the goalie to steal 3-4 wins. We probably need the goalie to steal 1 win and Binner (or Husso) is capable of giving us multiple more quality outings with 1 steal thrown into the next 6 games. You absolutely hate to miss a chance to steal a game, but I don't think this series is over yet.

I had very little problem with the officiating last night. My only complaint was the lack of a holding the stick call when Buch was pulled back by the stick when chasing a puck early in the 3rd. Schenn's high stick was absolutely a penalty. A one hand helicopter of your stick that tags a guy straight in the face is going to get called every time. There is zero requirement in the rule that a player must be fully upright for it to be a high stick. There is a specific exception for if a stick gets a center who is bent over during a faceoff. Writing that exception into the rule supports the notion that a player bent over in other situations can not be legally hit in the face with a stick. Per rule 60.1:

A “high stick” is one which is carried above the height of the opponent’s shoulders. Players must be in control and responsible for their stick. However, a player is permitted accidental contact on an opponent if the act is committed as a normal windup or follow through of a shooting motion, or accidental contact on the opposing center who is bent over during the course of a face-off. A wild swing at a bouncing puck would not be considered a normal windup or follow through and any contact to an opponent above the height of the shoulders shall be penalized accordingly.

Schenn was not in control of his stick, the play was not a normal windup or follow through and he made very forceful contact to the opponent's face. That is a high stick that absolutely has to get called.

 

[Oberyn]

I don't expect the Blues to win this series but I did expect to see some competitiveness from the Blues to challenge the Avs. It was baffling how passive the Blues were when it came to defending and forechecking. Every Blues player outside of ROR is making fly-bys in the offensive zone and letting the Avs dman make a free outlet pass. ROR is one of our slowest forwards and yet somehow he's able to dump the puck in and still retrieve it himself by outworking the Avs dman.

Binnington and ROR are the only ones who showed up last night, as observed by many already in this thread. I thought Kyrou had a bit of jump as the game progressed but he was still nowhere near satisfactory. Tarasenko, Thomas, Barbashev, and Buchnevich were just completely invisible. This is the playoffs, if you want the puck then you have to work for it. The Blues forwards are expecting to be given ice to make plays which is never going to happen in this series.

The contrast between watching the Avs carry the puck into the offensive zone vs the Blues was quite alarming. It seemed like every time an Avs player brought the puck in, the Blues dman elected to keep them to the outside instead of pressure them. The Avs have a lot of skilled forwards, if you give them time to make a play they're going to make a play. Meanwhile, every time a Blues player carried the puck in it felt like they were immediately suffocated by Avs defenders. The altitude probably factored into this as the game went on, but it really appeared as if the Blues were letting the Avs have free reign of most of the ice.

I didn't have any real issues with officiating. I thought the Toews call was really weak but they missed a call on the Avs player who held up Buchnevich so it evens out. Aside from that, you can't really expect to get any PPs if you never have the puck. The Schenn high stick was a legit penalty though I can see why people aren't happy with it.

Fantastic effort by Binnnigton and a clown show in front of him. Well played by the Avs, they had a little rust in the first period and then absolutely ratcheted it up in the 2nd onwards.

 

[Blueston]

I will never understand why we weren't in Colorado on Saturday. I lived in Colorado (both the front range and higher up into the mountains) for almost a decade and had tons of people visit me from St. Louis. Most of them suffered adverse effects for the first couple days and then were back to feeling closer to normal by day 3 or 4. It absolutely takes longer than that to get fully acclimated, but it isn't an on/off switch where you are completely not acclimated and then suddenly fully acclimated. It is a gradual process and the worst of it is usually the first couple days. We looked like a team that was out of gas. Just an atrocious decision.

We were thoroughly outplayed and we didn't have much business getting into OT. Binner was fantastic and also got a decent chunk of puck luck with 5 posts and EJ whiffing on a shot (allowing Binner to make a great desperation stop on the goal line). Even with him playing that well, Colorado really should have had another goal or two in regulation. Tough to squander that type of goaltending performance.

With that said, I don't think that capitalizing on that performance was our only avenue to winning the series. The Rangers got badly outplayed in game 1 against the Pens and squandered Shesterkin's best performance of the series. Then they won 4 of the next 6 to win the series. I don't think we're so outmatched by Colorado that we need the goalie to steal 3-4 wins. We probably need the goalie to steal 1 win and Binner (or Husso) is capable of giving us multiple more quality outings with 1 steal thrown into the next 6 games. You absolutely hate to miss a chance to steal a game, but I don't think this series is over yet.

I had very little problem with the officiating last night. My only complaint was the lack of a holding the stick call when Buch was pulled back by the stick when chasing a puck early in the 3rd. Schenn's high stick was absolutely a penalty. A one hand helicopter of your stick that tags a guy straight in the face is going to get called every time. There is zero requirement in the rule that a player must be fully upright for it to be a high stick. There is a specific exception for if a stick gets a center who is bent over during a faceoff. Writing that exception into the rule supports the notion that a player bent over in other situations can not be legally hit in the face with a stick. Per rule 60.1:

A “high stick” is one which is carried above the height of the opponent’s shoulders. Players must be in control and responsible for their stick. However, a player is permitted accidental contact on an opponent if the act is committed as a normal windup or follow through of a shooting motion, or accidental contact on the opposing center who is bent over during the course of a face-off. A wild swing at a bouncing puck would not be considered a normal windup or follow through and any contact to an opponent above the height of the shoulders shall be penalized accordingly.

Schenn was not in control of his stick, the play was not a normal windup or follow through and he made very forceful contact to the opponent's face. That is a high stick that absolutely has to get called.

I think altitude killed us. On 2 short change periods we were 2-0, but the long changes were 3-0 them. Need to get acclimated by tomorrow or could be short series.

 

[Itsnotatrap]

We quickly and completely lost control of the game in the long change periods. The 1st and 3rd were not great by any stretch, but they at least stayed competitive. Hopefully it’s the altitude thing, because if we had average goaltending that game would have got way out of line.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Buch Factor DP57
Kyrou Thomas Vladi
Saad Schenn Barbi
Toropchenko bozak Walker

I counter you with this

Buchnevich-O’Reilly-Perron
Saad-Thomas-Tarasenko
Schenn-Bozak-Kyrou
Walker-Barbashev-Toropchenko


Barbashev has been dreadful all playoffs, and I’d like to balance out the top 9 more. Let him go down with Torpo and Walker to create an effective energy line.

Also, Bozak has proven his whole career to be at his best with a physical guy who drives the net on his left, and a skilled RHS winger on his right.

 

[JoshFromMO]

There were a ton of blind passes to nobody that Colorado easily picked up I noticed. And the avalanche we’re doinga really good job of getting in the way of stuff off the boards so I am wondering if this is something Chief is gonna address or not because we looked slow and gassed a majority of the game

 

[Nederlander]

I think altitude killed us. On 2 short change periods we were 2-0, but the long changes were 3-0 them. Need to get acclimated by tomorrow or could be short series.

I live in Colorado at 8,200 feet. Any time my family from St. Louis comes to visit, they are really low energy the first 2-3 days. After day 3, there is a huge improvement. Can't understand why they didn't come out Friday or Saturday. They looked really tired with no energy, especially the second and third periods. Hopefully, they are better Thursday night.

 

[President Skroob]

I live in Colorado at 8,200 feet. Any time my family from St. Louis comes to visit, they are really low energy the first 2-3 days. After day 3, there is a huge improvement. Can't understand why they didn't come out Friday or Saturday. They looked really tired with no energy, especially the second and third periods. Hopefully, they are better Thursday night.

They sure as hell can’t be worse.

 

[TheDizee]

They sure as hell can’t be worse.

oh but they can.

imagine if the post was not on our team, ROR decides to pack it up and Binner goes back to being a pumpkin.

 

[i aint Dunn yet]

if the hit is there take it ... mckinnon acting like a ice queen was sickining ... he is a * * * * y .. josh manson lol ? your dad would cry

toro will take your shit

 

[President Skroob]

oh but they can.

imagine if the post was not on our team, ROR decides to pack it up and Binner goes back to being a pumpkin.

“The post” argument is the dumbest thing in hockey. People always fail to realize that when they say, “ we’ll if it was just a few inches over..” that the puck would have then hit the goalie or missed completely. It’s poetically pointless to discuss how many posts were hit.

 

[i aint Dunn yet]

cant wait for another 9:00 start and no pre-game .. espn you SUCK ... no i dont care about football or hoops

cornhole anyone ?

 

[Xerloris]

A “high stick” is one which is carried above the height of the opponent’s shoulders. Players must be in control and responsible for their stick. However, a player is permitted accidental contact on an opponent if the act is committed as a normal windup or follow through of a shooting motion, or accidental contact on the opposing center who is bent over during the course of a face-off. A wild swing at a bouncing puck would not be considered a normal windup or follow through and any contact to an opponent above the height of the shoulders shall be penalized accordingly.

You can't expect a player to to know a player behind them are on their knees. The rules clearly state shoulder height numerous times. Don't try to argue that well it was above his shoulders. No, the guy was on his knees and if he had been standing the stick would have hit his pants. There's a reason you don't see penalties called when a player is on their knees fighting for the puck against the boards and they get sticked in the face. It's because those referees aren't f***ing stupid.

Just to add

HockeyBuzz.com - Paul Stewart - High Stick? Depends on the Situation

www.hockeybuzz.com

I’m not sure why there is so much focus on the altitude. What I saw was more mental errors and passes to no one.

lack of Oxygen can cause that.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

You can't expect a player to to know a player behind them are on their knees. The rules clearly state shoulder height numerous times. Don't try to argue that well it was above his shoulders. No, the guy was on his knees and if he had been standing the stick would have hit his pants. There's a reason you don't see penalties called when a player is on their knees fighting for the puck against the boards and they get sticked in the face. It's because those referees aren't f***ing stupid.

Just to add

HockeyBuzz.com - Paul Stewart - High Stick? Depends on the Situation

www.hockeybuzz.com

lack of Oxygen can cause that.

Study of oxygen delivery to the blood is actually what my entire career is based on. I’m nit actually just spouting off.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

You can't expect a player to to know a player behind them are on their knees. The rules clearly state shoulder height numerous times. Don't try to argue that well it was above his shoulders. No, the guy was on his knees and if he had been standing the stick would have hit his pants. There's a reason you don't see penalties called when a player is on their knees fighting for the puck against the boards and they get sticked in the face. It's because those referees aren't f***ing stupid.

Just to add

HockeyBuzz.com - Paul Stewart - High Stick? Depends on the Situation

www.hockeybuzz.com

lack of Oxygen can cause that.

Players must control their stick. This is what it’s going to come down to. Not knees and shoulders.

 

[Xerloris]

Players must control their stick. This is what it’s going to come down to. Not knees and shoulders.

Schenn did control his stick, he prevented his stick from swinging wildly at someones face had they been standing. By your standard, he could have let his stick swing directly across the ice and had that guy fallen on his face you would still think it was high sticking. It's absurd and it was a shit call.

 

[Brian39]

You can't expect a player to to know a player behind them are on their knees.

Yes, you can absolutely expect a player to not wildly swing his stick into an area where he is fully unaware of his surroundings. Players are expected to be in control of their sticks at all times. That is written into the rule, not just an accepted standard. It is a player's responsibility to not hit an opponent's face with a non-shooting motion.

If you don't know what is going on behind you, you are expected not to swing your stick around behind you. Being in control of your stick at all times is one of the most fundamental teaching points to kids starting out in hockey. Putting your stick into an area where you don't know what is going on is not being in control of your stick.

You absolutely don't get a free pass to hit people in the face with your stick when they go down or hunch over.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Schenn did control his stick, he prevented his stick from swinging wildly at someones face had they been standing. By your standard, he could have let his stick swing directly across the ice and had that guy fallen on his face you would still think it was high sticking. It's absurd and it was a shit call.

Claiming that Schenn controlled his stick is the same as Dizee claiming he didn’t whine about the refs.

And if a player loses control of his stick and it smacks someone who is across the ice, then that player risks a lengthy suspension.

 

[Xerloris]

Claiming that Schenn controlled his stick is the same as Dizee claiming he didn’t whine about the refs.

And if a player loses control of his stick and it smacks someone who is across the ice, then that player risks a lengthy suspension.

Look at the height of his stick. Are you seriously trying to argue that nearly every single play in hockey now are players not controlling their stick?

 

[Brian39]

Schenn did control his stick, he prevented his stick from swinging wildly at someones face had they been standing. By your standard, he could have let his stick swing directly across the ice and had that guy fallen on his face you would still think it was high sticking. It's absurd and it was a shit call.

Just to be clear, do you believe that whacking Malkin in the face here would be a legal play?

He's got his head below his standing shoulder height and it looks like his head is about even with the top of the 42" boards. Since he put his head so much lower than a guy standing upright, are you saying that a player now has no responsibility to not take a few teeth out with their stick?

Let's look at the Schenn play.

His face is actually below the face that he hit with his stick. Are you saying that because his head was so much lower than usual that Toews could have finished his pass and then legally swung his stick into Schenn's face? Not on the follow through, but just swinging the stick after the folllow through of the pass. After all, under normal circumstances it would just hit Schenn at pants level, which is totally cool.

 

[Blueston]

Just to be clear, do you believe that whacking Malkin in the face here would be a legal play?

View attachment 549335

He's got his head below his standing shoulder height and it looks like his head is about even with the top of the 42" boards. Since he put his head so much lower than a guy standing upright, are you saying that a player now has no responsibility to not take a few teeth out with their stick?

Let's look at the Schenn play.

View attachment 549338

His face is actually below the face that he hit with his stick. Are you saying that because his head was so much lower than usual that Toews could have finished his pass and then legally swung his stick into Schenn's face? After all, under normal circumstances it would just hit Schenn at pants level, which is totally cool.

People don’t understand the rules. They argue what they want rules to be when they don’t like calls.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Look at the height of his stick. Are you seriously trying to argue that nearly every single play in hockey now are players not controlling their stick?

From the article you posted:

“Note, however, that this exception does NOT include wild or reckless swings at loose pucks in which an opposing player accidentally gets struck by the stick. That falls in the same larger realm of high sticking penalties where the offending player is responsible for a careless and dangerous use of the stick, even if it was accidental.”