WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

[jj cale]

Btw. I dont know about any people who didn't respect last WC/CCs. Sure, if I should evaluate it, I would put OGs higher, but just because WC is little bit too much NA thing. The sport result is +- same....

I see the viewpoint on the old CC's and world cup getting the soft touch treatment by European fans here now that they have such utter hate for this new version of the WC.

In the past from what I witnessed on this board the old CC's were given scant respect, it was called an NA tournament for NA(well mostly Canadian) fans with NHL refs on NA soil which clearly gave NA teams an unfair advantage and as such was an illegitimate international tournament and was looked at as such by most European posters.

Now, this is the first sign to me of some revisionist history being churned out regarding the CC's.

I am not surprised a new narrative concerning them is starting to be injected into the fold here.

 

[1Gold Standard]

I take it you won't be watching?

the presser or the pre-season exhibition?

correct answer is None of the Above.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

the presser or the pre-season exhibition?

correct answer is None of the Above.

Your option of course. Personally, I don't understand the vitriol that so many have about this tournament. It's not a traditional "best on best" tournament but it is a showcase for the NHL to get as many of it's top players involved in a competitive environment. In particular, I'm very intrigued by the Young Guns team.

 

[Mehar]

Did anyone get tickets for any of the WCH games? The prices for every Team Canada game are pretty steep, compared to the Non-Team Canada games. I guess i should not be surprised. Wanted to buy a couple of tickets to the Canada-Czech game, but having second thoughts after seeing the prices.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Your option of course. Personally, I don't understand the vitriol that so many have about this tournament. It's not a traditional "best on best" tournament but it is a showcase for the NHL to get as many of it's top players involved in a competitive environment. In particular, I'm very intrigued by the Young Guns team.

My ideal hockey world would include a World Cup minus the gimmicks and NHL Olympics. Ideal world, but I'm a realist, probably can't have both, so I'd like to have 1. World Cup no gimmicks say good-bye to the Olympics. disappointing, but I can live with that if that's the way it has to be.
2. World Cup with gimmicks but committed to NHL participation at the Olympics. I probably won't watch the world cup in this scenario, but I wouldn't say boo about it. I can live with this. I have the Olympics to look forward to.

What I can't live with, a World Cup with gimmicks and no NHL Olympics.... which is what the NHL is angling for and wanting my $$$ and eyeballs to pull this off....no effing way. not going to happen.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You are missing the whole point Gary. I totally believe in capitalism. I respect the NHL is a private business. And I wanted the NHL to organize a World cup because the Olympics was giving the NHL a raw deal. But part of the show of staging a world cup is not just the talent but what it represents. This world cup with fake teams has no meaning to many fans of international hockey. This ruins the show no matter how good the hockey players are.
You can take the best players and place them on 8 teams but if the tournament has no meaning what is the point.
This is what is deflating the excitement for many international hockey fans. We want this international event to mean something.

Perfect example: A movie can have great Actors and special effects but if there is no story the movie is not going to be good.
Same goes for this World cup. The story stinks.

Terrible example. A better analogy might be that it's likely to be a very good movie considering the best actors in the world will be taking part in yet another sequel to a highly successful series of movies. Some people are saying it will be terrible without even giving it a chance because it's not officially sanctioned by some international body and because the format isn't exactly the same as it was before. Seems odd to talk about how bad a movie is without even seeing it but whatevah ...

Did anyone get tickets for any of the WCH games? The prices for every Team Canada game are pretty steep, compared to the Non-Team Canada games. I guess i should not be surprised. Wanted to buy a couple of tickets to the Canada-Czech game, but having second thoughts after seeing the prices.

This is becoming the norm for pricing - games expected to draw more interest are more expensive. Even the Blue Jays just announced they will be doing this next season.

 

[NikoPopp]

You guys realize single game tickets don't go on sale in Toronto until tomorrow right?

So far, all you could buy were expensive packages.

I got in on the presale today and got some tickets to Finland vs Sweden since I'm Swedish. Tickets are still available but definitely not thousands. Maybe 100 or so.

 

[Gary Nylund]

My ideal hockey world would include a World Cup minus the gimmicks and NHL Olympics. Ideal world, but I'm a realist, probably can't have both, so I'd like to have 1. World Cup no gimmicks say good-bye to the Olympics. disappointing, but I can live with that if that's the way it has to be.
2. World Cup with gimmicks but committed to NHL participation at the Olympics. I probably won't watch the world cup in this scenario, but I wouldn't say boo about it. I can live with this. I have the Olympics to look forward to.

What I can't live with, a World Cup with gimmicks and no NHL Olympics.... which is what the NHL is angling for and wanting my $$$ and eyeballs to pull this off....no effing way. not going to happen.

Don't panic man, the odds of there being gimmick teams for the next World Cup are near zero.

You guys realize single game tickets don't go on sale in Toronto until tomorrow right?

So far, all you could buy were expensive packages.

I got in on the presale today and got some tickets to Finland vs Sweden since I'm Swedish. Tickets are still available but definitely not thousands. Maybe 100 or so.

Judging by some of the sarcastic comments about "poor sales" I'd say the answer is no.

Enjoy the game!

 

[Canuckistani]

Don't panic man, the odds of there being gimmick teams for the next World Cup are near zero.

That will depend entirely on whether the NHL deems the two joke teams to have been a success or not (both financially and competitively).

If Bettman comes away from this thinking it was well received then we can expect even more idiocy next time. You can be sure the NHL doesn't fancy the idea of having more non-NHLers in 2020 since that's why the joke teams were created to begin with.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Don't panic man, the odds of there being gimmick teams for the next World Cup are near zero.



Judging by some of the sarcastic comments about "poor sales" I'd say the answer is no.

Enjoy the game!

you can believe Gary Bettman all you want....The Coyotes weren't bankrupt up until they were. Oppps, Gary.

The Thrashers weren't moving and most certainly not to Winnipeg until they were. Opps, Gary.

World Cups gimmicks are a 1 off b/c there wasn't enough time for qualifiers. another scam in Bettman's long list of scams to the hockey fan. Believe that nonsense if you wish... but I can see Bettman in the tournament closing presser arguing that good ratings (if they come to pass) will likely land us more gimmicks not less, and certainly not a real World Cup with real National teams that include qualifiers... which the NHL has to pay for BTW. LOL. not going to happen.

oh, and I couldn't care less about qualifiers. Canada Cups in the past have never had qualifiers..so arguing there was just no time to hold them this time tells me that Gary Bettman is just shoveling a whole load of fresh B.S.

 

[Canuckistani]

certainly not a real World Cup with real National teams that include qualifiers... which the NHL has to pay for BTW. LOL. not going to happen.

oh, and I couldn't care less about qualifiers. Canada Cups in the past have never had qualifiers..so arguing there was just no time to hold tells me Gary Bettman is shoveling a whole load of fresh B.S.

Anyone who thinks the NHL is going to pay for unnecessary qualifiers (never had them before) so that more non-NHLers can compete in 2020 in utterly delusional.

If the NHL insists on qualifying then they could have simply based the teams on the top eight in the IIHF rankings or the top eight in the previous IIHF event. It was exactly that thinking that saw West Germany replace Finland at the 1984 Canada Cup.

So using the IIHF rankings for the World Cup would result in Canada, Russia, Finland, USA, Sweden, Czech Rep, Switzerland and Slovakia - exactly what sensible fans have been calling for all along.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That will depend entirely on whether the NHL deems the two joke teams to have been a success or not (both financially and competitively).

If Bettman comes away from this thinking it was well received then we can expect even more idiocy next time. You can be sure the NHL doesn't fancy the idea of having more non-NHLers in 2020 since that's why the joke teams were created to begin with.

Disagree. No matter how much of a success this tournament is or isn't, I would bet heavily there are no gimmick teams next time. Also disagree that the motivation for the gimmick teams was to have more NHLers. There's obviously no way to know for sure who's right for now so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

you can believe Gary Bettman all you want....The Coyotes weren't bankrupt up until they were. Oppps, Gary.

The Thrashers weren't moving and most certainly not to Winnipeg until they were. Opps, Gary.

World Cups gimmicks are a 1 off b/c there wasn't enough time for qualifiers. another scam in Bettman's long list of scams to the hockey fan. Believe that nonsense if you wish... but I can see Bettman in the tournament closing presser arguing that good ratings (if they come to pass) will likely land us more gimmicks not less, and certainly not a real World Cup with real National teams that include qualifiers... which the NHL has to pay for BTW. LOL. not going to happen.

oh, and I couldn't care less about qualifiers. Canada Cups in the past have never had qualifiers..so arguing there was just no time to hold them this time tells me that Gary Bettman is just shoveling a whole load of fresh B.S.

Oh dear, you seem to have the idea that me saying there will be no gimmick teams next time means I believe everything Gary Bettman has ever said. I have no idea what to say to such an idiotic statement so I guess I'll just

The only thing you're right about is that there will be no qualifiers. Then again, I don't believe anyone has ever predicted there would be so ...

 

[1Gold Standard]

Anyone who thinks the NHL is going to pay for unnecessary qualifiers (never had them before) so that more non-NHLers can compete in 2020 in utterly delusional.

so, I missed the presser. surprise surprise. what was it about? from the tweet I saw it looked like it had something to do with sponsorship on jerseys.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Disagree. No matter how much of a success this tournament is or isn't, I would bet heavily there are no gimmick teams next time. Also disagree that the motivation for the gimmick teams was to have more NHLers. There's obviously no way to know for sure who's right for now so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.



Oh dear, you seem to have the idea that me saying there will be no gimmick teams next time means I believe everything Gary Bettman has ever said. I have no idea what to say to such an idiotic statement so I guess I'll just

The only thing you're right about is that there will be no qualifiers. Then again, I don't believe anyone has ever predicted there would be so ...

pretty simple. Sounds like you've bought into his B.S. line of gimmicks are a 1 off. Gary Bettman has a long established track record of playing the con. All I said was, if you want to believe him, then go right ahead. I don't buy it for a second. Enjoy the pre-season exhibition.

 

[Gary Nylund]

so, I missed the presser. surprise surprise. what was it about? from the tweet I saw it looked like it had something to do with sponsorship on jerseys.

You're not interested in the tournament, you're of course not wasting time with the pressers, but you are following on twitter and posting. Makes sense to me.

pretty simple. Sounds like you've bought into his B.S. line of gimmicks are a 1 off. Gary Bettman has a long established track record of playing the con. All I said was, if you want to believe him, then go right ahead. I don't buy it for a second. Enjoy the pre-season exhibition.

Has Bettman actually said this or are you just spewing? Link please?

 

[Canuckistani]

No matter how much of a success this tournament is or isn't, I would bet heavily there are no gimmick teams next time. Also disagree that the motivation for the gimmick teams was to have more NHLers.

What do you think those joke teams are there for if not to maximize the number of NHL stars?

One was to include the likes of Kopitar and Nielsen, and the other was to showcase young NA talent that might otherwise not make the real team.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What do you think those joke teams are there for if not to maximize the number of NHL stars?

One was to include the likes of Kopitar and Nielsen, and the other was to showcase young NA talent that might otherwise not make the real team.

I'd guess it has a lot to do with there being a big competitive gap between the 6th and 7th ranked national teams which led to some concern about selling tickets for games that were likely to be perceived as not being competitive.

 

[JackSlater]

I don't think it's off base at all, the NHL is a business and expecting them not to behave like one is crazy. I will again say that the IOC is the main culprit here and it should be easy to understand why the NHL will forego the Olympics (if that's what happens). The World Cup will make money for the NHL, the Olympics would cost them money. It's not complicated.

Off base once again. Who said that the NHL cannot act like a business? That the gimmick for this tournament is idiotic has nothing to do with the NHL acting like a business. The tournament is a waste due to the gimmicks. I couldn't care less about the NHL's profits, which won't be affected either way by the idiotic gimmicks in my estimation.

The IOC is obviously corrupt. No question there. That doesn't excuse this tournament in any way though.

People are discussing problems with the tournament. Obvious business related explanations are irrelevant to the actual problems with the tournament itself. They explain why the gimmicks are happening, which isn't the topic of discussion.

As far as the NHL presenting the World Cup as an international tournament, that should surprise no-one. As you've pointed out, it's not technically an international tournament but to the average fan, the distinction is moot. There will be players there from many different countries, there will be teams that sure look an awful lot like national teams, they will be wearing their national colours etc. and the NHL isn't going to come out and say "yes it's not an international tournament", they're not completely stupid - calling this tournament "international" is elementary marketing.

This is irrelevant as well. I don't care about the NHL's marketing, and I doubt that many others do either. I care about the tournament itself. I don't care if the NHL presents this as a best on best tournament or as a nice family skate on a Sunday afternoon. I care about what it is - not an international tournament. Anyone can see why the NHL markets its tournament as an international tournament, but that once again doesn't matter when we are discussing what the tournament actually is.

That will depend entirely on whether the NHL deems the two joke teams to have been a success or not (both financially and competitively).

If Bettman comes away from this thinking it was well received then we can expect even more idiocy next time. You can be sure the NHL doesn't fancy the idea of having more non-NHLers in 2020 since that's why the joke teams were created to begin with.

you can believe Gary Bettman all you want....The Coyotes weren't bankrupt up until they were. Oppps, Gary.

The Thrashers weren't moving and most certainly not to Winnipeg until they were. Opps, Gary.

World Cups gimmicks are a 1 off b/c there wasn't enough time for qualifiers. another scam in Bettman's long list of scams to the hockey fan. Believe that nonsense if you wish... but I can see Bettman in the tournament closing presser arguing that good ratings (if they come to pass) will likely land us more gimmicks not less, and certainly not a real World Cup with real National teams that include qualifiers... which the NHL has to pay for BTW. LOL. not going to happen.

oh, and I couldn't care less about qualifiers. Canada Cups in the past have never had qualifiers..so arguing there was just no time to hold them this time tells me that Gary Bettman is just shoveling a whole load of fresh B.S.

I do laugh at anyone who thinks that there will definitely not be gimmicks next time. If they used gimmicks this time, why not next time as well? The NHL gave a blatant lie about using the gimmick this time (qualifiers that weren't even necessary) so why exactly would the gimmicks just go away? It's possible that there won't be gimmicks, but given that the NHL put the gimmicks in for literally no necessary reason this time then no one can say that the gimmicks won't be there next time as well.

 

[1Gold Standard]

You're not interested in the tournament, you're of course not wasting time with the pressers, but you are following on twitter and posting. Makes sense to me.



Has Bettman actually said this or are you just spewing? Link please?

ya, you're right. I should unfollow all the sports/hockey writers on the off chance they might tweet some WCoH nonsense. be proactive.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Off base once again. Who said that the NHL cannot act like a business? That the gimmick for this tournament is idiotic has nothing to do with the NHL acting like a business. The tournament is a waste due to the gimmicks. I couldn't care less about the NHL's profits, which won't be affected either way by the idiotic gimmicks in my estimation.

You don't care about the NHL's profits, that's fine. The NHL does care though and that was my point. You're not disputing that I hope.

The IOC is obviously corrupt. No question there. That doesn't excuse this tournament in any way though.

Some have said they're worried that the NHL won't be sending it's players to the next OG because of this tournament. I'm just pointing out that the IOC should be the first place to look when it comes to assigning blame for this "theoretical tragedy" that hasn't even happened yet.

People are discussing problems with the tournament. Obvious business related explanations are irrelevant to the actual problems with the tournament itself. They explain why the gimmicks are happening, which isn't the topic of discussion.

Many different angles are being discussed here, I think "the topic" is a little bigger than you think it is.

This is irrelevant as well. I don't care about the NHL's marketing, and I doubt that many others do either. I care about the tournament itself. I don't care if the NHL presents this as a best on best tournament or as a nice family skate on a Sunday afternoon. I care about what it is - not an international tournament. Anyone can see why the NHL markets its tournament as an international tournament, but that once again doesn't matter when we are discussing what the tournament actually is.

I'm pretty sure you posted several times in another thread not long ago about your objections to the NHL calling this an international tournament when technically, that's not what it is. I can't be bothered to dig around for your quotes but if you've never said that then please accept my apologies.

ya, you're right. I should unfollow all the sports/hockey writers on the off chance they might tweet some WCoH nonsense. be proactive.

I'm still waiting on the link to back up your earlier statement. I take your silence to mean that you were indeed spewing.

 

[Canuckistani]

I'd guess it has a lot to do with there being a big competitive gap between the 6th and 7th ranked national teams which led to some concern about selling tickets for games that were likely to be perceived as not being competitive.

Russia vs Slovakia at the 2004 World Cup drew 18,000 to the ACC.

Games involving Slovakia, Latvia, Norway, Switzerland, Germany and Belarus all drew 16,000+ and 17,000+ at the Vancouver Olympics.

Fans will pay for best-vs-best hockey, and the NHL knows this from experience. They would have had no harder a time selling tickets for Russia vs Switzerland than they will for Sweden vs North America or Czechs vs Europe.

This was all about maximizing NHL exposure, even at they had to invent teams to do it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Russia vs Slovakia at the 2004 World Cup drew 18,000 to the ACC.

Games involving Slovakia, Latvia, Norway, Switzerland, Germany and Belarus all drew 16,000+ and 17,000+ at the Vancouver Olympics.

Fans will pay for best-vs-best hockey, and the NHL knows this from experience. They would have had no harder a time selling tickets for Russia vs Switzerland than they will for Sweden vs North America or Czechs vs Europe.

This was all about maximizing NHL exposure, even at they had to invent teams to do it.

What's the logic here, to introduce the NHL to all the people in NA who haven't heard of the NHL before?

 

[Canuckistani]

What's the logic here, to introduce the NHL to all the people in NA who haven't heard of the NHL before?

The NHL's logic is to include as many NHLers as possible; to showcase all their stars in one event.

They don't want KHLers and Swiss Leaguers getting one second of attention ahead of Kopitar, McDavid or McKinnon.

 

[JackSlater]

You don't care about the NHL's profits, that's fine. The NHL does care though and that was my point. You're not disputing that I hope.

Obviously I'm not. Your point is irrelevant. The tournament has a problem. The business musings behind that problem don't mitigate the problem at all. You aren't the first to attempt to use the NHL's rights as a business to justify this idiocy. It is irrelevant every single time.

Some have said they're worried that the NHL won't be sending it's players to the next OG because of this tournament. I'm just pointing out that the IOC should be the first place to look when it comes to assigning blame for this "theoretical tragedy" that hasn't even happened yet.

Bill Daly said that, so the NHL's position is very clear. The success of this tournament works against NHL participation in the Olympics. The IOC is obviously a problem, but once again it is an irrelevant problem when it comes to discussing this tournament. Your exaggeration regarding the "theoretical tragedy" is another use of a strawman to strengthen your largely irrelevant stances.

Many different angles are being discussed here, I think "the topic" is a little bigger than you think it is.

I know what the topic is. The business musings that explain once again why the NHL did this are irrelevant. The issue is the tournament itself. Why the NHL took this idiotic course of action doesn't matter.

I'm pretty sure you posted several times in another thread not long ago about your objections to the NHL calling this an international tournament when technically, that's not what it is. I can't be bothered to dig around for your quotes but if you've never said that then please accept my apologies.

That was indeed me, because some posters, perhaps you may remember, were suggesting that the "World Cup" was not being presented as an international tournament. Hence, I demonstrated how that was clearly wrong, since it is being presented as an international tournament, and it also happens to not be an international tournament.

 

[Gary Nylund]

My responses in red.

The NHL's logic is to include as many NHLers as possible; to showcase all their stars in one event.

And again, I ask you what's the point? Everyone knows who they already.

They don't want KHLers and Swiss Leaguers getting one second of attention ahead of Kopitar, McDavid or McKinnon.

You really think the NHL is worried about their stars being upstaged by some pros from Switzerland or wherever else? Excuse me while I

I would bet many owners would rather rake in the money without risking injury to their star players right before the season starts. Are you aware that some owners aren't happy at all when their players get picked for these teams for that very reason?