Value of: Wayne Simmonds to Montreal, A Final Attempt

[CapnZin]

Simmonds really isn’t good outside of the one set play the flyers run for him on the PP. Whoever gets him will probably have overpaid by a lot.

Generally speaking, points are points and goals are goals. That’s like saying you know Malkin is only good for about 50-60 points or so because 20-30 points come from the PP so he’s kind of overrated.

No... you need good PP players or else that’s a huge facet of the game in which the team plays in desperation.

Undervaluing people because they perform better on the PP is what the typical “arm chair analyst/coach” does... takes things out of context to fit a certain narrative. I’m really not trying to attack or call you out, just using your sentiment as an example since this argument is brought up a lot.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Generally speaking, points are points and goals are goals. That’s like saying you know Malkin is only good for about 50-60 points or so because 20-30 points come from the PP so he’s kind of overrated.

No... you need good PP players or else that’s a huge facet of the game in which the team plays in desperation.

Undervaluing people because they perform better on the PP is what the typical “arm chair analyst/coach” does... takes things out of context to fit a certain narrative. I’m really not trying to attack or call you out, just using your sentiment as an example since this argument is brought up a lot.

If Philly didn’t run that one play for him he’d be an average offensive player with some real defensive deficiencies

 

[CapnZin]

If Philly didn’t run that one play for him he’d be an average offensive player with some real defensive deficiencies

Lol what? Hey Hakstol... let’s not run plays that help us score. That’s typically what he does, but what are you trying to get at with this argument? If Giroux plays without a stick he won’t be a good offensive weapon. If the flyers play without skates they’re not going to be good... don’t know what your point is.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Lol what? Hey Hakstol... let’s not run plays that help us score. That’s typically what he does, but what are you trying to get at with this argument? If Giroux plays without a stick he won’t be a good offensive weapon. If the flyers play without skates they’re not going to be good... don’t know what your point is.

View attachment 152085

Simmonds isn’t a great player on his own, just the flyers have skilled playmakers and run a set play for him at the net. Basically any RHS could do it.

 

[Starat327]

Simmonds isn’t a great player on his own, just the flyers have skilled playmakers and run a set play for him at the net. Basically any RHS could do it.

Yeah, the bolded just isn't true. Simmonds skill in front of the net is unparalleled. He's one of, if not the best, net front presences in the league and has been for a few years.

I largely agree that Simmonds' value mostly comes from the PP, but that means very little in the grand scheme of things. Saying anyone can do what he can, while very little can or are, is just a terrible way if saying you don't understand the value in what he does.

 

[CapnZin]

Simmonds isn’t a great player on his own, just the flyers have skilled playmakers and run a set play for him at the net. Basically any RHS could do it.

Oh wait, my bad, I think I get your point. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but is it that Simmer is one-dimensional?

You’re right, Simmer isn’t good at creating his own space and isn’t that good on open space. That isn’t his play archetype though. Would you want Steven Stamkos to switch style with Erne or Gourde? The answer should be no since he’d be less effective. Simmonds is a complementary piece to a line, not a substitute. He’s great along the boards, good F1, and one of the best in front of the net along with deflections. That in-and-of-itself creates space for playmakers or snipers in HDO since it draws one, if not both, defenders to the crease. He really, may only be effective on the PP, and that’s where a lot of value comes into play, but I think your analysis on him is wrong.

You’re describing nothing really relevant to Simmonds game. That’s just like me trying to devalue Stamkos because he doesn’t throw big hits or get into a lot of fights. It has nothing to do with his game.

 

[Lockin17]

As a Habs fan i would love to have Simmonds playing with Drouin - Domi - Simmonds.
Since he's going to be UFA soon i would't give him what his worth it unless he signs at the trade.
Sherback + 5 rd = Unsinged Simmons
Sherback + Hudon + 2rd = 4 years at 5,5 mil , Simmonds

 

[Starat327]

As a Habs fan i would love to have Simmons playing with Drouin - Domi - Simmonds.
Since he's going to be UFA soon i would't give him what his worth it unless he signs at the trade.
Sherback + 5 rd = Unsinged Simmons
Sherback + Hudon + 2rd = 4 years at 5,5 mil , Simmonds

If Simmonds is willing to sign 4 years at 5.5, he's staying in Philly. His dollar value isn't the issue, it's the term that's scaring most of us - but we also recognize he deserves to get paid, too.

 

[Lockin17]

If Simmonds is willing to sign 4 years at 5.5, he's staying in Philly. His dollar value isn't the issue, it's the term that's scaring most of us - but we also recognize he deserves to get paid, too.

What are the terms that is scaring you ?
How much you think he's worth ?

 

[Starat327]

What are the terms that is scaring you ?
How much you think he's worth ?

I think he'd well within his rights to ask for 6 mil. He's a consistent 25+ goal scorer with a akillset that is fairly rare in the NHL.

4 years is about where I'd be comfortable. But I don't think he'd be open to a 4 year deal. The dude has been largely underpaid on his last two contracts. I'd expect him to ask for a 7x6 or 6x7 as a guess, and I think the team that does it is going to be disappointed with the last 2 or 3 years of that deal.

The only real reason we wouldn't sign him though is that it's hard to justify spending 5mil+ on a player who is 3rd best at his position on the team. We don't really have cap issues, but that's just bad cap management.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Montreal isn't going to be trading for Simmonds.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yeah because we all know Montreal gets the Free Agents in droves.

Montreal hasn't had much issue getting UFAs to sign there recently (most teams with money don't have an issue). The problem is that most UFA signings are a mistake.

 

[Larry44]

The Flyers should trade Simmonds at the deadline. Any thoughts of extending him ended when Hexy signed JVR to be a PP specialist at way too much for way too long ($7M x 5 yrs). I would take a 2nd for Simmonds, or a late first from a top contending team. Great guy. Can't play 5 on 5. Good luck to him finding a big payday but it won't be in Philly.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

MTL doesn't want him anyway

They do. Despite you claiming YOU don't. He's a perfect fit for that team

 

[Funk21]

Why does MTL need wingers? Second, this is one of the youngest groups in the NHL and while Simmonds is not really old adding a 30 year old winger at the expense of a Centre prospect who they still very much need makes zero sense.

 

[Captain Mountain]

They do. Despite you claiming YOU don't. He's a perfect fit for that team

You have no more evidence that Montreal wants Simmonds any more than than the other guy has that they don't.

And I really wouldn't call Simmonds a perfect fit. Montreal doesn't really need a net front presence, they need a sniper that can pas well to create spacing problems on the PP and on the cycle at ES. That's not really Simmonds game.

 

[ole ole]

They do. Despite you claiming YOU don't. He's a perfect fit for that team

We are not giving up any valuable asset for him and NO we don't want him because he doesn't fit in our plans and time frame Despite what you think .

 

[jellybeans]

Montreal has been rumored to be targeting him for years. He's currently a UFA with a modified NTC (can submit 12 teams he won't go to). Montreal may very well be one of those teams... but previous rumors suggest he has family there, suggesting he wouldn't rule it out. Montreal has had some failed attempts at their RW prospects as of late... including Scherbak, McCarron, Hudon to a degree. Simmonds would fill a hole if he could be resigned. What would it take?

Have to consider it starts with their 2019 1st. Kotkaniemi and Suzuki out of the picture. Poehling probably discussion worthy.

Sorry but your the king of bad trades( im wording it nicely) for the Habs please make this your final habs trade.

 

[Sheppy]

To Boston:
Wayne Simmonds

To Philadelphia:
Ryan Donato
2nd round pick

?

 

[Hockey Stick]

They do. Despite you claiming YOU don't. He's a perfect fit for that team

No he's not. Habs are moving towards the speed and skill type of players, and not players like him that YOU claim are a perfect fit

 

[Starat327]

To Boston:
Wayne Simmonds

To Philadelphia:
Ryan Donato
2nd round pick

?

My preference would be Heinen - anything workable there?

 

[Sheppy]

My preference would be Heinen - anything workable there?

I would also trade Heinen

 

[Sheppy]

Delete

 

[Starat327]

I would also trade Heinen

I wont speak for the rest of the fan base, but id be ok with something around Heinen and a pick. I dont gauge where the pick is because im not sure where hes valued by B's fans, but Heinen + pick is workable for me.

 

[Pierre Lebrun]

Sorry but your the king of bad trades( im wording it nicely) for the Habs please make this your final habs trade.

Sorry but I called Galchenyuk for Domi straight up in Feb 2018