Line Combos: Was trading for Bolland a mistake?

[frankthetank91]

good lord, haven't even played a game and it's already a mistake.

the guy has TWO cups to his name, in the past what, 4 years? including the game winner only a couple months ago.

he's a great(if not the best) 3rd line centre in the league.

he brings us one step closer to contention for the cup.

xxxx
Kadri
Bolland
Mcclement

starting to look like a great mix of skill and defensive centres.

Because on the Leafs board, 2 cups<playing ok on the marlies(Colborne)

Bolland is a beast and will be great for us. Plus McClement still will be on the 3rd line but as a winger.

 

[ALine]

Dave Bolland is over-rated and over-paid for what he does and how well he does it. For a so-called elite grinder, his Corsi Against stats are pretty disappointing. On the best hockey team in the NHL. An elite grinder does not let that many shots go through. Let me guess, he was bought in because he is "tough" and a "good ol Etobicoke boy" right? Might as well make Don Cherry the GM. Just because he was part of a winning team (Chicago Blackhawks), doesn't mean that he's hot ****.

Why do you think Chicago are willing to allow us to take him off their hands? Because they want to offload his bloated salary and make cap room for better players. Chicago were probably laughing their ***** off when the deal was done. "The idiot Leafs management got outsmarted again", they thought to themselves. Chicago will bring up yet another cheap, promising youngster to take Bolland's place. Chicago probably have the best scouts in the league to find talent to draft and know how to properly bring up youth.

The used their cap space to overpay for Bickell.

You seem to be a pretty big Chicago fan, they have their own board you could go to.

Why does any team ever trade any player ever? Any player to be trade, especially from a good team, must be terrible. No, good playerd don't ever get traded.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Given their current cap issues, I'm of the opinion that Mclement should have taken the third line. The 4th line is clearly a checking line and Mclement is too good to be surrounded by two bangers.

I'm already negative on the idea of a checking line as opposed to a 4 line roll out using young kids on the 4th line but thats a different story

no getting the best 3rd line center in the game is not a mistake

 

[AuraSphere]

Trade was highly unneccessary, I think colborne would have done a great job on the third line, a lot of people underestimate him for his performance in a couple of games last year, but I know for a fact that he'll be an amazing 3rd liner, possibly even a 2nd liner in the future.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Given their current cap issues, I'm of the opinion that Mclement should have taken the third line. The 4th line is clearly a checking line and Mclement is too good to be surrounded by two bangers.

I'm already negative on the idea of a checking line as opposed to a 4 line roll out using young kids on the 4th line but thats a different story

McClement brings nothing offensively.

A 3rd line needs to be able to chip in offence.

McClement 5 on 5 is a 4th liner (or at best the weakest link as a wing on the 3rd) whose an elite PKer which gets him just inside the top inside top 9 in terms of TOI.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Dave Bolland is over-rated and over-paid for what he does and how well he does it. For a so-called elite grinder, his Corsi Against stats are pretty disappointing. On the best hockey team in the NHL. An elite grinder does not let that many shots go through. Let me guess, he was bought in because he is "tough" and a "good ol Etobicoke boy" right? Might as well make Don Cherry the GM. Just because he was part of a winning team (Chicago Blackhawks), doesn't mean that he's hot ****.

Why do you think Chicago are willing to allow us to take him off their hands? Because they want to offload his bloated salary and make cap room for better players. Chicago were probably laughing their ***** off when the deal was done. "The idiot Leafs management got outsmarted again", they thought to themselves. Chicago will bring up yet another cheap, promising youngster to take Bolland's place. Chicago probably have the best scouts in the league to find talent to draft and know how to properly bring up youth.

I'm not 100% clear on the rules but I don't think ads for Prozac are allowed on the board

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Bolland brings a dimension we were really missing last season.

The way Toronto has been built is that we had no answer in are forward group in being able to shutdown power forward types like Eric Staal, Rick Nash, Krejci-Lucic-Horton line.

Bolland gives us a dimension that we sorely lacked last year and could have been the difference against Boston in being able to make life a lot more difficult for Krejci instead of watching Grabo skate around a 100 miles an hour looking like he's doing lots but taking himself out of defensive position more often than not.

If we're to advance in the playoffs this upcoming year it's almost certain we'll be playing Pittsburgh or Boston at some point so we needed someone to shut down whichever line is hotter out of Krejci/Bergeron or Crosby/Malkin who all play big.

 

[ACC1224]

Absolutely necessary. Other than a partner for Phanuef this was the biggest need.

Whether it works out is another matter.

 

[Duke Silver]

Sounds like a limited definition. Detroit's third line has noting to do with shutting down. In fact, it's more of a depth scoring line. The same goes for Montreal's third line with Gionta, or the Ottawa's third line with Zibanejad.

TOI should be the only attribute for lines. Chicago's "third line" with Krueger, Saad, and Shaw is a depth scoring line. Regardless, there is no way Bolland is the best shut down centre or the best depth scoring centre. I think we need to be realistic here considering that he's slowed down and he can't be a consistent grinder either. More of an agitator that goes after the best.

I was being facetious.

Every team is built differently. There isn't a cookie-cutter definition for what constitutes a third liner.

The way the Leafs are constructed, with the way Carlyle coaches, Bolland will be relied upon to play tough minutes against the opposition's best players to try and limit them offensively., while providing sporadic offensive input himself.

We don't have the luxury of a top-6 forward who is a proficient two-way player, so this is what Bolland will be relied upon for. We can only make use of what we have, and forcing players into roles they are not comfortable with is what can ruin a player's effectiveness (see: Grabovski last season).

 

[ForSpareParts*]

THN scouting report:

"Assets: Owns plenty of two-way ability. Is versatile, polished and plays a very solid all-around game. Can be used in all game situations. Likes to play an in-your-face style and can be a pest to play against.

Flaws: Extremely defensively responsible, that part of his game will take away from getting high point totals--because he is needed more for his defensive work. Must avoid more serious injuries.

Career Potential: Quality two-way center."

Why in the world do people have doubts about him?

 

[Holymakinaw]

THN scouting report:

"Assets: Owns plenty of two-way ability. Is versatile, polished and plays a very solid all-around game. Can be used in all game situations. Likes to play an in-your-face style and can be a pest to play against.

Flaws: Extremely defensively responsible, that part of his game will take away from getting high point totals--because he is needed more for his defensive work. Must avoid more serious injuries.

Career Potential: Quality two-way center."

Why in the world do people have doubts about him?

Leaf fans.....and Leaf haters........LOVE to be hyper-critical of anything Leafy.

MEH.

 

[mix1home]

It was Bolland who made this hit which caused the turnover that lead to Seabrook's OT winner against the Red Wings in Round 2:

It was Bolland who made this hit in the dying minutes of a one-goal game on Mike Richards, arguably saving a goal, and knocking Richards out of the last 3 games of the series.

It was Bolland who initially tipped this point shot in triple-overtime, which hit Shaw's shin pad and went in.

And it was Bolland who scored the cup-winning goal in the last minute of play in Game 6 to win the cup.

When the game is on the line, and you need a hero, Bolland is made of the right stuff to get it done. It's a rare quality to have someone who elevates their game when it's needed the most. He's going to be a heart-and-soul player for this team and I don't think anyone will be lamenting the loss of a 2nd rounder and two 4th rounders by the time the games start actually being played.

Not to mention, Bolland completely trolled and annihilated Vancouver in first Chicago cup run (along with Byfuglien) and then he came back from injury next year with Chicago down in series 3-0 and all of the sudden it vent to game 7 overtime. Guy knows something about winning games and cups. Wouldn't it be amazing if he wins another one next year?

EDIT: And we have no other man to thank for "Sedins sisters" reference, but Bolland.

 

[nuck]

Given their current cap issues, I'm of the opinion that Mclement should have taken the third line. The 4th line is clearly a checking line and Mclement is too good to be surrounded by two bangers.

I'm already negative on the idea of a checking line as opposed to a 4 line roll out using young kids on the 4th line but thats a different story

Shouldnt we wait until he has played at least one game? If they get last seasons Bolland then I think it would clearly be a bad deal. Remember he played with Kane and still turned out brutal production. Barely better than Grabovski managed with non scorers. He seems similar to Bozak in the his better production was when they attempted to use him on the top line, but that isn't his best role. He signed his current deal after a career year and then never matched it.

However there is no reason to assume he can't improve on last season And he does have a different mix of assets from Grabo, including that he is bigger and that he has had more success when used bottom 6. If it was me making the deal it wouldn't have happened but until we see what he gives them, and what the cost if fixing their cap problems is there is no way of predicitng,

 

[veedubn1]

Given their current cap issues, I'm of the opinion that Mclement should have taken the third line. The 4th line is clearly a checking line and Mclement is too good to be surrounded by two bangers.

I'm already negative on the idea of a checking line as opposed to a 4 line roll out using young kids on the 4th line but thats a different story

McClement's offense isn't good enough for a 3rd line "scoring" role which is why you'll see him back on the 4th line and rested for the PK. He had the perfect role for his skills last season... why change anything with him?

 

[varano]

McClement's offense isn't good enough for a 3rd line "scoring" role which is why you'll see him back on the 4th line and rested for the PK. He had the perfect role for his skills last season... why change anything with him?

Frankly...putting him on a line with Orr and Mclaren is like a game of one of these things is not like the other.

If Toronto is simply using him on the PK, I feel that its only a matter of time till someone else gives him the TOI that we wont.

 

[varano]

Shouldnt we wait until he has played at least one game? If they get last seasons Bolland then I think it would clearly be a bad deal. Remember he played with Kane and still turned out brutal production. Barely better than Grabovski managed with non scorers. He seems similar to Bozak in the his better production was when they attempted to use him on the top line, but that isn't his best role. He signed his current deal after a career year and then never matched it.

However there is no reason to assume he can't improve on last season And he does have a different mix of assets from Grabo, including that he is bigger and that he has had more success when used bottom 6. If it was me making the deal it wouldn't have happened but until we see what he gives them, and what the cost if fixing their cap problems is there is no way of predicitng,

My hope is that he does have any amazing season as I'd love the leafs to have a good run

 

[Duke Silver]

My hope is that he does have any amazing season as I'd love the leafs to have a good run

What does Bolland have to do for you to be happy with this trade?

 

[varano]

What does Bolland have to do for you to be happy with this trade?

Staying healthy is one concern for me.

My gripe is not with Bolland. My concern is in a Defense first system you need proven defensemen over a third line center and Franson is exactly that.

If Franson does not return to the team (Kadri will be signed before
Franson is), and we have a weak defensive year, I would feel that this was one issue that was not prioritized well. Bolland is simply the most expendable person I see in this list of signings. Kulemin for instance is not a valid 1st or 2nd line option, so the Clarkson signing makes sense for me moreso than Bolland in the team landscape

 

[Lightsol]

Staying healthy is one concern for me.

My gripe is not with Bolland. My concern is in a Defense first system you need proven defensemen over a third line center and Franson is exactly that.

If Franson does not return to the team (Kadri will be signed before
Franson is), and we have a weak defensive year, I would feel that this was one issue that was not prioritized well. Bolland is simply the most expendable person I see in this list of signings. Kulemin for instance is not a valid 1st or 2nd line option, so the Clarkson signing makes sense for me moreso than Bolland in the team landscape

Franson is proven? Proven to be what?

For God's sake, we're arguing over a guy who was mainly our #5 last year. Yeah, he picked it up in the playoffs and could easily slot into the top 4 this year, but overpaying for limited success is how you end up with a Ville Leino contract.

 

[p.l.f.]

I dont think McLaren will play as much this time

Orr - Colborne - Ashton (Komarov ) makes a 4th line which could play 8 to 10 min

 

[HellasLEAF]

guys if we are spent to the cap with a deep squad then we are probably doing something right

 

[veedubn1]

Frankly...putting him on a line with Orr and Mclaren is like a game of one of these things is not like the other.

If Toronto is simply using him on the PK, I feel that its only a matter of time till someone else gives him the TOI that we wont.

To address your first point -

We're putting a 3rd/4th liner on the 4th line. It's exactly where he belongs... doesn't matter if he's rolling with Orr and McLaren if we can use him when he's most valuable to us (the PK).

To address your second point -

Winning should be (and sounds like it is) his top priority. If we're winning he'll stick around. Guys take lesser roles on teams to be on teams that go on deep playoff runs and we're building towards that.

If he wants to walk because he wants MORE than the 15 mpg he got this past season then I'll happily let him walk.

 

[veedubn1]

I dont think McLaren will play as much this time

Orr - Colborne - Ashton (Komarov ) makes a 4th line which could play 8 to 10 min

I'd much rather have Joe on the wing (Colbrone - Bolland - Kuli) on the 3rd line than promote a guy who isn't ready for the promotion (Ashton).

I know there's an equal amount of people out there who agree and disagree with me, but I'm a fan of rolling Colton and Fraser most nights and sitting one of them if the other team doesn't employ a single instigator/enforcer.

Our division is tough.

You have Neil and Kassian in Ottawa. Parros, Prust a few other mouth pieces in Montreal. Boston is the toughest team in the league. Tootoo and Abdelkader in Detroit... and that's JUST our division. Team toughness is a prerequisite in the Atlantic.

We have a TON of goal scoring on our wings and we get decent production from our back end... we really don't need our 4th line to contribute offensively whatsoever other than the odd goal here and there (that oddly enough usually makes the difference in a game).

Very much looking forward to beating the **** out of everyone this year while having a top 5 offense and a top 3 PK.

22, 18, 15 and 5 is how our minutes should be spread across the 4 lines (disregarding PP and PK).

 

[Stephen]

One downside is that it's hard to envision him fitting into even an expanded cap structure after this season...

 

[Eb]

I think that if we had traded away fewer picks/prospects in the past, we likely would have had an equivalent internal option for 3rd line C (Gauthier as an example, except he's a few years away).

Trading a 2nd and two 4ths for a pending UFA 3rd liner when we're not contenders and his caphit makes it difficult for us to sign our RFAs? Doesnt seem like the best move to me. Especially since trading away those picks is exactly the type of deal thats prevented us from building a proper 3rd line internally to begin with, so longterm it just adds to the problem.

I like Bolland. Love his effort and his versatility. But I do think generally speaking its bad cap/asset management for a building team to continually trade away picks/prospects for NHLers, especially guys that arent franchise players. All it does is take away from our prospect pool, push us hard against the salary cap, and doesnt even make us legit contenders.

This is a good post.

None of that "HE WON A CUP!!!!!"

Thank you for providing reasoning OP.