Proposal: WAS-TOR

[lifelonghockeyfan]

To TOR

Matt Niskanen, 5.75m for 2 more years.

To WAS

Andreas Johnsson, RFA

Toronto desperately needs an RD. Niskanen is just one year removed from being the number 1 shutdown defender on the Stanley Cup champions. He hasn't been great this year though, why is why he might be available.

Toronto also has too many skilled young forwards. It makes sense to trade one of them.

Washington is likely losing Connolly and will need a young cheap winger to replace him. Washington has no forward prospects so will need to acquire said player via trade or FA.

Washington is also overflowing with defense prospects and recently acquired Jensen so are very much dealing from a position of strength.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

No the Leaf don't desperately need a RHD. Nishkanen has been on the decline. There seems to be illusion than any RHD in the league is better than any of the Leafs Dmen. Leafs have allowed 10 more goals than Washington this season. Leaf need cap space and this trade adds about another 2.5m to the Leafs.

 

[New Liskeard]

Nylander for Wilson would be more appropriate.

 

[txpd]

Not sure if the caps would want to move Niskanen

Thinking among the Caps contingent talking up a trade of Niskanen is that he is over the hill and time to get out from under him. There is some not entirely unfounded speculation that Jensen and his 4 year contract extension is a signal that is going to happen. The Caps are overrun with kid defensemen that they would prefer not to play above the 3rd pair. Jensen at present blocks them as long as Orpik and Niskanen are playing.

The more likely course is that Jensen moves up. Niskanen moves down, Orpik retires and the 3rd pair becomes a kid and Niskanen. Trading Niskanen sets up the chance for 2 kids on the 3rd pair, which isn't ideal. But there is no sign Orpik wants to retire.

There's your back story

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Thinking among the Caps contingent talking up a trade of Niskanen is that he is over the hill and time to get out from under him. There is some not entirely unfounded speculation that Jensen and his 4 year contract extension is a signal that is going to happen. The Caps are overrun with kid defensemen that they would prefer not to play above the 3rd pair. Jensen at present blocks them as long as Orpik and Niskanen are playing.

The more likely course is that Jensen moves up. Niskanen moves down, Orpik retires and the 3rd pair becomes a kid and Niskanen. Trading Niskanen sets up the chance for 2 kids on the 3rd pair, which isn't ideal. But there is no sign Orpik wants to retire.

There's your back story

I can't see GMBM keeping Niskanen if the plan is to play him on the third pair for two more years. Me personally, I'd rather have Orpik at his cap hit and a kid on the 3rd pair than Niskanen at his cap hit and a kid on the third pair.

Do you prefer to keep Niskanen or Connolly and Burakovsky?

 

[txpd]

I disagree with the notion that prospects equate to guys who are essentially all potential and zero talent realized. The Capitals have several guys sitting in Hershey right now that have played NHL time and looked good doing so. To portray them as being nothing more than draft picks or guys who aren't ready is disingenuous.

Cool your jets a bit. NHL defensemen take years to properly develop. You don't take a kid like Seigenthaler and expect to use him in a primary role and win right away. It will take him 3 or 4 seasons to achieve that and wont be developed yet. You cant honestly think that having Djoos and Seigenthaler playing every game with another kid as the first injury replacement is the kind of situation you want to be a cup contender.

Look how old Jensen is. Look how old Niskanen was when the Caps got him and his game took a big step up. Look at how old Carlson was when he finally achieved Norris Trophy consideration. Defense takes experience to play correctly.

 

[txpd]

I can't see GMBM keeping Niskanen if the plan is to play him on the third pair for two more years. Me personally, I'd rather have Orpik at his cap hit and a kid on the 3rd pair than Niskanen at his cap hit and a kid on the third pair.

Do you prefer to keep Niskanen or Connolly and Burakovsky?

1. We don't know that keeping Orpik is an option. Clearly Niskanen on the 3rd pair only happens if Orpik retires. If Orpik and Niskanen leave, the defense is just too inexperienced.
2. I think you are overprojecting the costs of retaining either Connolly or Burakovsky. If I had to choose the #2 toi defensemen on the team or 3rd and 4th line wingers. I would take the defenseman.
3. Do you really trust Jensen as the primary shutdown rd defenseman on a cup contender? Really?

 

[mitchthemitch]

Johnsson is our best left winger and has looked good with both Matthews and Tavares lines. Not comfortable trading him at this point.
I know that the Caps are also deep down the RW so I don't see a deal involving Kapanen working either
But it was nice to see a leafs proposal where the Leafs player isn't massively overrated or underrated.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Cool your jets a bit. NHL defensemen take years to properly develop. You don't take a kid like Seigenthaler and expect to use him in a primary role and win right away. It will take him 3 or 4 seasons to achieve that and wont be developed yet. You cant honestly think that having Djoos and Seigenthaler playing every game with another kid as the first injury replacement is the kind of situation you want to be a cup contender.

Look how old Jensen is. Look how old Niskanen was when the Caps got him and his game took a big step up. Look at how old Carlson was when he finally achieved Norris Trophy consideration. Defense takes experience to play correctly.

I think you're reading it as Siegenthaler/Lewington for Niskanen in a 1-t0-1 transition whereas I'm spinning it as Niskanen is moved and everyone slides up the depth chart and the bottom pairing is now occupied by guys formerly spinning their wheels in Hershey.


You get your seasoned defenseman in a top 4 role, because now Nick Jensen is playing 4D and someone like Lewington is playing 6D.


Your lines then looks like:

Kempny-Carlson
Orlov-Jensen
Djoos-Lewington

Siegenthaler



That's really not a huge transition in terms of experience. I also think you're maybe over speculating what a typical NHL defense looks like in terms of experience. If you think our defense would be "way too inexperience without Orpik and Niskanen I think you need to watch around the league. Right now if we we to lose both of those guys our d core would have 4/6 guys who were present for the Cup run, 3 of those 4 have more than 4 years of NHL experience.

 

[StephenPeat]

Nylander for Wilson would be more appropriate.

As a Capitals fan, No Thank You. We Good.

 

[txpd]

I think you're reading it as Siegenthaler/Lewington for Niskanen in a 1-t0-1 transition whereas I'm spinning it as Niskanen is moved and everyone slides up the depth chart.

No. I am not. Jensen, Djoos, Seigenthaler is not 3 of a 6 man d corp on a cup contender. Period. There is not nearly enough experience there. That was in fact my point. Add that at present neither Orlov or Kempny were being used as penalty killers. The Caps use 4 right now. You would move out 2 of them and add two that are either not on the roster or not trusted to do it. Add in the same questions about late game and primary defensive situations. No

 

[txpd]

That's really not a huge transition in terms of experience..

Can you explain that? Niskanen and Orpik out. 1029rs/149playoff games(Orpik) and 875/118. Jensen 204/0, Djoos 102/22, Seigenthaler 25/0.

What are you talking about?

 

[Drake1588]

The Capitals are not going to trade Niskanen. The presence of kids in the system doesn't mean you trade your vets. It means you start playing your kids in the #4 - #6 slots, sheltered by the vets as the kids make rookie mistakes. As the younger players gain experience and gradually take over key situations from vets, you start to move your vets. That takes years, and you probably don't see good teams do it with more than one kid in their top six at a time.

You don't move your vets to free up roster spots for kids with nary a season under their belts, if you aim to contend.

What they need to do is figure out which kids are expendable and trade some of them. That's where the logjam gets addressed, at some point. They've already started with the Jensen-Bowey and a pick trade. There isn't a scenario in which a Caps team that still thinks of itself as a contender gets rid of vets and goes with a fairly green group, though. The only way I'd see Niskanen dealt right now is in a deal for more defense. Struggling or not, he's their #2, and not far removed from providing the Caps with excellent contributions.

 

[Morgs]

Value isn't terrible, but it won't work so there's no real need to speculate.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Zaitsev would have to be involved for salary.

LOL. Absolutely zero chance....less than zero....that the Caps would trade Niskanen and somehow take back Zaitsev.

Niskanen is significantly better than Zaitsev, and yet they carry about the same salary slot. I don’t think Toronto could sweeten the pot enough for the Caps to take back Zaitsev.

Leafs assets have mostly matured — salary wise — so I don’t even know what would allow this to work.

 

[TorontoTrades]

LOL. Absolutely zero chance....less than zero....that the Caps would trade Niskanen and somehow take back Zaitsev.

Niskanen is significantly better than Zaitsev, and yet they carry about the same salary slot. I don’t think Toronto could sweeten the pot enough for the Caps to take back Zaitsev.

Leafs assets have mostly matured — salary wise — so I don’t even know what would allow this to work.

I wasnt saying it would happen just that a trade like this cant happen with Zaitsev still on the Toronto payroll

 

[Melkor]

Good proposal. Would definitely do that if that can be worked out in the summer.

 

[New Liskeard]

As a Capitals fan, No Thank You. We Good.

Can't say I blame you.

 

[Kuz]

To TOR

Matt Niskanen, 5.75m for 2 more years.

To WAS

Andreas Johnsson, RFA

Toronto desperately needs an RD. Niskanen is just one year removed from being the number 1 shutdown defender on the Stanley Cup champions. He hasn't been great this year though, why is why he might be available.

Toronto also has too many skilled young forwards. It makes sense to trade one of them.

Washington is likely losing Connolly and will need a young cheap winger to replace him. Washington has no forward prospects so will need to acquire said player via trade or FA.

Washington is also overflowing with defense prospects and recently acquired Jensen so are very much dealing from a position of strength.

Is Johnsson gonna be that much cheaper than Connolly? Hes RFA so you have a little more control, but hes scoring at pretty much the same rate Connoly does. I feel like if Caps trades Niskanen they can just as well resign Connolly as they then will have the money for it. Caps will then have between 17-18 million in cap space. That should be enough to sign Vrana(4-5 mill), Connolly(3-4), Hagelin(2-3) to keep the top 9 intact. They could almost keep Bura to as he wont be getting more than his current contract. Resign Djoos(1,5) and probably Dowd(1>) and Stephenson(1>) on low contracts. I feel if the caps trade Niskanen its to keep their other pieces and then they cant take salary back. He has had a solid season, but he and Orlov have not been as dominant as last year. Will be interesting to see if its because of cup hangover and f they can raise their game when the playoffs start.

Caps pretty much need to decide to either weaken their D by trading Niskanen or weaken their depth in the top 9 by keeping Niskanen. I dont think Leafs are a good trade partner because they cant add without giving salary back. A team trading for Niskanen will have the goal to be in the playoffs soon. I feel like Florida would be a better fit. They lack a solid RD on their second pair. They have enough scoring, but they are leaking goals. Getting Niskanen to solidify their top 4 together with Ekblad, Yandle and Matheson would make them a lot better. Caps would need picks and forward prospects back.

I would only consider trading Niskanen if we knew Vrana, Connolly and Hagelin would all resign. As I think Jensen is ready for a top 4 job at RD and it would hurt more for the Caps loosing their depth scoring. Thats what they lacked before finally winning the cup.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Can't see this being realistic. Any move is going to be for the cup window which starts next year and goes for at least 5 years. Niskanen is 2 years older than Muzzin. Leafs have no appetite to pay that price a 2nd time for a 2nd pairing D (let's be realistic).

If they are moving a forward they will have much younger players available to do that. Plus Johnsson is the best LW on the team in an organization weak on LW.

 

[NoName]

The issue with Toronto is going to be cap space for 2020-21. Marner's contract is going to be (deservedly) rich and Kapanen and Johnsson are all up as RFAs as well. On the plus side they are all non-arbitration RFAs, so the team has some leverage there, but they are certainly not going to be in a position to add any extra salaries (and pretty assuredly going to have to let Jake Gardiner walk as a UFA). Until that Marleau contract is up at the end of next season, Toronto is likely going to have to look for cheap options from within for that RHD hole, unless another team as a trade partner is willing to take a bit of a cap dump in return (eg. Zaitsev).

Weirdly, looking at the Leafs cap situation the only bad contracts I can see are Zaitsev, Marleau (and it only has one more season) and Connor Brown (and at $2.1 million for one more season, even that isn't so awful). Just the nature of today's NHL that you can't really stay under the cap without leaving a couple holes on your roster... well unless your team is in a state with zero income tax and thus players will sign for less cap hit because they still take home the same amount (cough, Tampa), but with Ontario having a very high tax rate that just isn't an option for the Leafs.


However, good on the OP for coming up with a creative hockey trade where the values are mostly in line (at least enough that there are split opinions for fans of each team involved).