Was Rejean Houle the worst GM in NHL history?

[Habsfunk]

The Roy trade is arguably not even Houle's worst. Turgeon, Conroy and Fitzpatrick for Corson and Baron was pretty awful too. It's a 90+ point forward, a good prospect and a fringe prospect for a washed up grinder and bottom pairing defenceman. It would be laughed at by anyone on this board.

As for worst all-time, how about Lynn Patrick and Hap Emms? I really can't say I know much about them but they were the Bruins' two GMs from 1954-1957, which has to be one of the most futile stretches of any franchise ever.* In that period the Bruins missed the playoffs nine times in 13 seasons, including eight years in a row from 1960-67 - a period when 2/3 teams made the playoffs. The one saving grace - that was when Bobby Orr was snapped up.

*Edit: Just did a bit more research and the Red Wings from 66-86 missed the playoffs 16 times in 20 seasons. The Rangers were also pretty miserable for a long time - only made the playoffs 6 times between 1942 and 1966.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Not the worst ever, but before the Blue Jackets finally canned him, I'd say Doug MacLean was the worst in the league. Weak draft record, and repeatedly brought in past their prime veterans as band-aid solutions instead of trying to build around younger players. I don't recall any trades he made that made you think he was getting a good deal. Even a guy like Don Waddell managed to scam Marc Savard out of Calgary for some magic beans (which introduces former Calgary GM Craig Button to this discussion).

MacLean's best trade was Marc Denis for Fredrik Modin and Fredrik Norrena. Norrena finally decided to come over to North America and Modin played well before injuries hit.

His worst....not many remember it, but he parlayed the 20th overall pick in the 2002 draft into pick 41, pick 96, and Mike Pandolfo. It was idiotic at the time, as anyone who's ever even thought of a draft value chart could tell you, and worse now. Consider that the players taken between #20 and #32 (the original pick) were Daniel Paille, Anton Babchuk, Sean Bergenheim, Alex Steen, Cam Ward, and Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers (plus a few depth guys).

Don't forget Mel Bridgman, Ottawa's first GM. Only lasted a year but there was a reason for that. Messed up the expansion draft because they went by a conditional list of available players and didn't bother to look at the actual list which was handed to them right before the draft. As such he is responsible as the main architect of what was maybe the worst NHL team ever. Sure, an expansion draft doesn't usually offer a lot of good players but Tampa managed to assemble a much more competitive squad.

Then in the actual draft their first pick, Yashin, was pretty good in what was overall not the best draft class but they had planned to take Roman Hamrlik at that position as they didn't expect Tampa to pick him. Their plan was then to pick a few Czech guys later in the draft so Hamrlik would have a couple compatriots to befriend on the team. Trouble is that they picked these guys anyway in spite of not getting Hamrlik - needless to say none of them had any impact in the NHL and there's a combined 7 NHL goals between them. Not that their non-Czech remaining picks really did anything, Patrick Traverse was the only one with any notable time in the NHL and he had maybe 2 full and fairly unremarkable seasons in the league.

The way Bridgman handled these two inaugural drafts was just a comedy of errors and certainly a big reason as to why the Senators remained thoroughly uncompetitive for several years.

If I remember right, Bridgman had the expansion draft list on his laptop, which had a dead battery. He had an AC cable, but there weren't any nearby outlets and there wasn't enough extension cords to bridge the gap.

I do remember the Czechs though...Jelinek (who had as many NHL seasons as eyebrows), Radek Hamr, and Jaroslav Miklenda. I think Demitra was the next year.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Yes, there are a few deals of Milbury's that are impossible to defend. Namely Luongo and Jokinen for Kvasha and Parrish, but aside from that one, most of his deals were a result of tremendous pressure from ownership, to either win or to cut salary, and besides, those deals were generally well-regarded at the time. And despite all these deals, the fact is that Milbury brought some pretty good players to Long Island via these trades.

And it's worth noting that Jokinen is and was a headcase, and at the time, no one thought he'd develop. And Parrish was considered a very reliable if only average sniper.

 

[jkrx]

Columbus
San Jose traded Jan Caloun, a ninth-round pick in the 2000 NHL Entry Draft, and a conditional pick in the 2001 NHL Entry Draft to Columbus on June 11, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

Buffalo traded Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Matt Davidson, and two fifth-round draft picks (one each in the 2000 and 2001 Entry Drafts) to Columbus on June 23, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select a goaltender from the Sabres.
Minnesota

San Jose traded Andy Sutton, a seventh-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft and a third-round pick in the 2001 Entry Draft to Minnesota on June 11, 2000, for an eighth-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft after the Wild agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

Worst deal by Columbus ever...

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

And it's worth noting that Jokinen is and was a headcase, and at the time, no one thought he'd develop. And Parrish was considered a very reliable if only average sniper.

Kvasha was in a similar boat to Jokinen at the time. A talented player with upside if things came together. Similar saw off at the time to the Latendresse/Pouliot trade. Jokinen finally developed and Kvasha did not.

So basically it ends up being Parish for Luongo, which is obscenely bad.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Columbus
San Jose traded Jan Caloun, a ninth-round pick in the 2000 NHL Entry Draft, and a conditional pick in the 2001 NHL Entry Draft to Columbus on June 11, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

Worst deal by Columbus ever...

At the time it wasn't regarded as being a horrid deal for three reasons.
1) Nabokov was a largely unproven prospect who, although regarded as being starting goalie material, didn't have anything tangible at the NHL level to show for it yet
2) Caloun was in the prime of his career and had serious offensive talent, which is sorely lacking on pretty much any expansion team
3) Columbus had just acquired the equally-touted Marc Denis a few days prior

 

[jkrx]

At the time it wasn't regarded as being a horrid deal for three reasons.
1) Nabokov was a largely unproven prospect who, although regarded as being starting goalie material, didn't have anything tangible at the NHL level to show for it yet
2) Caloun was in the prime of his career and had serious offensive talent, which is sorely lacking on pretty much any expansion team
3) Columbus had just acquired the equally-touted Marc Denis a few days prior

Yes but I meant purely in retrospect...

Caloun and ninth for a top prospect isnt really that great even for the reasons you stated

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Savard was trying to move him, yes (in fact he had nearly finished a trade with Lacroix the day he was fired), but Roy's biography makes no mention of Roy wanting to leave Montreal. Admittedly the biography's written by Roy's father so the source isn't unbiased.

Roy had admitted himself that he stated that he had cooled down and would play for Montreal however he would never play for Tremblay. Montreal traded him two or three days later. I suppose at the deal was less atrocious then it is by today's standards. Hell in today's NHL that trade would be beyond an abomination and liable to get a GM killed. And with how Montreal fans are... I am not speaking entirely figuratively there.

 

[Axxellien]

Lynn Patrick:

Went from being one of the best & most forward looking GM`s:
,
The UKE line, Simmons, Lumley, Regan, until, inexplicably, a series of disastrous moves: Stanley, the UKE line, Regan, Larry Hillman, Ehman, Gendron, Simmons, Stapleton, Captain Mckenney, etc. etc. almost sank what was the 2nd most successful franchise, his only good move was aquiring Murray Oliver..A truly disastrous situation..Hap Emms was the very successful owner of the Memorial Cup winning BARRIE FLYERS....

 

[Axxellien]

Muzz PATRICK:

Speaking of bad GM moves, if anyone can explain the Rangers relinquishing the rights of Red Kelly for minor league Defenseman Marc Reaume!! Simply dreadful!!

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I was fairly young at the time so my memories are a little vague. But I think the value Roy had at the time is being over-estimated. I can't imagine Lacroix (or anyone) expected that he was going to get nearly 8 high quality years out of Roy. This was still an era where a 10-year career was considered typical, even for very good goaltenders. Roy had already been in the league that long, so it's not unreasonable if people felt that he was getting near his decline phase. Of course by today's standards, he would not have been considered aging at all, but in 1995...? I dunno, but I can't see many GMs willing to part with Roenick+Belfour or Brodeur (who had just won a Cup) for a goalie that may have been perceived as a short-term fix.

At the same time obody expected Forsberg to become a top 5 player in the game though.

 

[jkrx]

At the same time obody expected Forsberg to become a top 5 player in the game though.

What?

 

[xIsle]

While I won't argue that management played a role in forcing Houle to trade Montreal's best players, Milbury REALLY had his hands tied by Islanders management. That still is the worst ownership situation in the league, and it was even worse during Milbury's tenure. The turmoil involving ownership of that team was unparalleled. For God's sake, one guy bought the team with money that he didn't have, and went to prison for it. After that, Milbury had to deal with the Milstein-Gluckstein duo, who forced him to deal core players like Palffy, Berard, Pilon, and Linden so that they could make a profit (1). Then, Charles Wang and Sanjay Kumar came along. Sanjay Kumar was convicted of securities fraud in 2007, thus joining John Spano as felons who were involved with buying the Islanders.

Even then, Milbury's deals are often hurt by hindsight more than anything else. At the time, he was lauded for attempting to bring playoff hockey back to New York. He was under tremendous pressure, from ownership, to build a playoff team, and that's what he did. It's easy to criticize the Yashin and Peca deals, but at the time, they made perfect sense. Yashin was a superstar one season removed off a 94 point season, and Peca was THE best defensive forward in the world. No one was complaining about the loss of Chara, Connolly, and Pyatt when Yashin and Peca led the Islanders into the playoffs in 2002, and into a gutsy series with Toronto, a series that they probably win if Tucker doesn't blow Peca's knee out in Game 5.

Yes, there are a few deals of Milbury's that are impossible to defend. Namely Luongo and Jokinen for Kvasha and Parrish, but aside from that one, most of his deals were a result of tremendous pressure from ownership, to either win or to cut salary, and besides, those deals were generally well-regarded at the time. And despite all these deals, the fact is that Milbury brought some pretty good players to Long Island via these trades.(2)

Whether or not he was forced into dealing Roy (obviously was), Turgeon, Damphousse, and Recchi, Rejean Houle still was responsible for what he got for them. Which is nothing. Literally, nothing. The Roy deal actually was the best of the four, because Houle actually got a promising goalie in Thibault, which is more than the collection of draft picks and utter crap he got for the other three. Milbury may have dealt what turned into half of the 2003-04 Eastern Conference All-Star team, but he got some good players in the process.(3) It's not completely his fault that those players faded quickly. Wang wanted to win right away, and Milbury did a solid job of building a playoff team very quickly.

Most of all, I just simply cannot say a GM with Houle's drafting record, especially first round record, is better than a GM with Milbury's record. Milbury is an idiot, especially when he opens his mouth, but whether we like it or not, the man could draft with the best of them (4). Rejean Houle had no idea what the **** to do when the draft came around.

1) Pilon a core player? And Berard was traded for Felix Potvin, so I don't think it was a salary dump. Linden was a bad acquisition. Milbury traded McCabe and Bertuzzi for him when the Isles should have been on a rebuilding mode. Another bad move by Mad Mike.

2)Can you name a few? I'm curious.

3) That sentence alone prove how much Milbury was a bad gm with no patience and no real plan to built a championship team.

4) And you are so wrong about that! Take a look yourself what the isles draft during his tenure (1996 to 2005). It's incredibly bad! Outside the top 5 picks, I don't see any "good" picks from the Isles during all those years.

Zdeno Chara was a lucky pick. They select him without never seen him live (only a few tapes). They probably select him in the 3rd round of 1996 because he was 6'9"!

1998 and 2003 was a desastrous actually.

 

[HyeDray]

Im sorry—the worst GM in the history of professional sports—from hockey to crickett is Mike Milbury. How this man is even considered a viable TV analyst is beyond my comprehension.

The deals that were made are not worse simply because of hindsight. They were bad when they occurred.

Luongo/Jokenin for Parrish/Kvasha and then drafting DiPietro—that ws a BAD move the day it happened. Trading away what everyone already saw as solid young players, passing on the obvious choices (Gaborik/Heatly) was plain dumb. Everyone already saw what we had in Luongo—that is everyone except the worlds worst hockey mind. And replacing him with a marginal goalie at best in DePietro just makes it that much worse.

Bertuzzi and McCabe for Linden—a disaster. Two players who were becoming substantial stars in their own right for a fading star. That is not a bad deal today in hindsight—it was a bad deal that day.

Selecting Robert Nilsson over Zach Parise—knowing full well that EVERYBODY in Islander Country was praying for Parise to land in the Isles lap because his dad was such a key part of the franchise—and he passes. You knew the minute Lamorello trade up to grab him we were doomed. Nilsson is a 3rd liner. Parise might be the best left wing in the eastern conference.

Trading Berard—one may argue it was because we would not be able to afford him—then again, it might be because Berard was dating Milbury's daughter. Who knows for sure.

Yes—he got good value for Palffy. But then what—the guys he got in the Palffy deal got traded away within a year because the a$$ had no patience.

This is a man who—as a player—had no patience. He jumped into the crowd at MSG and beat a fan with his shoe. This is the a$$ that was in charge of the NY Islanders.

Mike Milbury single-handedly destroyed a once model NHL franchise. His destruction is still affecting the team today. It is only because of the current GMs patience with youth that there is a bit of light at the endo of the so-called tunnel. This GM—the backup goalie that EVERYONE in the NHL mocked as a joke and a clown—has done a FAR BETTER job then the a$$ who ran the team for 11 years.

The affects of Houle may have been bad. But the Habs have enjoyed some success post Houle. The Isles have yet to come out from under the crushing weight of Mike Milbury's disasterous management. It has been 17 years since the NYI have won a playoff series—17 folks. That is mostly due to Mike Milbury's mismangement of the team.

I can't even begin to see how anybody can stand here and justify a single trade he made with the possible exception of the Palffy deal. And perhaps, if someone wants to give him a pass on the first few years prior to Wang's arrival—I can swallow that. But he had no business making the Luongo deal, or the Chara deal. Those deals were bad deals even then....Yashin was a known locker room cancer. The Peca deal was not terrible—but then he got traded away after a few seasons—for who—Mike York! Uggh....

Face it—just about every young player the man traded became an all star elsewhere.

The worst GM in all of sports—bar none!

 

[Jumptheshark]

MAd Mike by a TKP

Look at his trades--he could have had a dynasty if he tried or knew what he was doing

 

[Peter9]

Went from being one of the best & most forward looking GM`s:
,
The UKE line, Simmons, Lumley, Regan, until, inexplicably, a series of disastrous moves: Stanley, the UKE line, Regan, Larry Hillman, Ehman, Gendron, Simmons, Stapleton, Captain Mckenney, etc. etc. almost sank what was the 2nd most successful franchise, his only good move was aquiring Murray Oliver..A truly disastrous situation..Hap Emms was the very successful owner of the Memorial Cup winning BARRIE FLYERS....

I lived just south of Keswick, hometown of a couple of NHL goalies, Eddie Chadwick and Curtis Joseph, just across Lake Simcoe from Barrie, during Hap Emms heyday as head honcho of the Barrie Flyers Junior OHA team. He was very much respected in hockey circles then. But he may have exemplified the Peter Principle, the tendency of people to get promoted until they reach the level where they are incompetent.

By the way, Eddie Chadwick's step-brother, Jimmy Greer, was in my eighth grade class at Jersey Public School when Eddie got called up in the 1955-56 season to fill in for the injured Harry Lumley. Eddie played five games during that stint, let in only three goals for an amazing GAA of 0.60, and racked up two shutouts, as the Leafs won two and tied three. Needless to say, our class, most of them (not including me) Leafs fans, went wild. Every morning Jimmy would report about the telephone call to the family Eddie made every evening. Jimmy began calling himself Jimmy Chadwick instead of Jimmy Greer, and switched from defenceman to goaltender on the school team.

 

[Darth Joker]

Most of Milbury's bad moves were cases of him giving up young players, prospects, or draft picks for older established talent that he hoped would put his team over the top.

History shows, of course, that these trades never really worked out for Long Island, and that Milbury and the Islanders would have been much better off going with a long-term rebuild and just waiting for their young players and top draft picks to mature into an excellent team.

But I can more easily forgive the future-for-present trades that blow up in a GM's face than I can the sorts of brutally one-sided horror fest trades that Houle helped engineer.

There's always a risk in future-for-present trades. Always. There's always the potential that it blows up in your face. When GMs make these trades, they really roll the dice, and they know it. They know it may turn out great, or it may turn out awful. At some level, Milbury was very unlucky.


But Houle's blockbuster deals were something else. You could tell that they were horrendous deals the moment that they were made. When I heard the Roy trade announced over the radio, I almost barfed in disgust. When I heard the Turgeon-to-St. Louis deal announced on TSN, I instantly facepalmed.

These deals weren't rolling the dice and getting burned on it. These deals were just plain awful, and obviously so from day one.

Patrick Roy was a two-time Stanley Cup winning goalie, who was factor No. 1 in both of those Cup wins. He had spent most of the past few years being regularly rated amongst the very best players in the game by The Hockey News. He was a franchise player, period.

I don't care what position your proven franchise player plays, if you trade him, you have to get either one hell of a rebuild package back (think of some of the packages that Milbury gave up in his bad deals), or you get another elite player back at a different position.

Montreal obviously received neither from Colorado. Kovalenko and Rucinsky were average 2nd or 3rd line wingers, at best. They weren't top young guys in the organization whatsoever.

Thibault and Fiset had already been in the league awhile. Their numbers weren't anything to write home about. Neither of Colorado's goalies would represent a good return.


The Turgeon trade was similarly bad. Here's the Habs hometown hero; a proven 1st line center and the most offensively talented center the Habs had benefited from in decades (and better than anyone they've had since, by the way). And they trade him for Shayne Corson. Shayne Corson!!!

The guy not worth Vincent Damphousse when he was several years younger, is somehow now worth Pierre Turgeon in the mid-90s.

Oh, and here's the hilarious (in a black humor sort of way) part. In a deal where the Habs give up the star player, they somehow also manage to get burned on the prospects involved too.

I'm sure most St. Louis and Calgary fans are familiar with the name "Craig Conroy". Pretty good 1st/2nd line center most of his career, right? Well, he was at one time the throw-in, on the Turgeon side, of a
Turgeon-for-Corson/Baron deal.

The team Houle really helped out was the St. Louis Blues. Their top two centers for a significant stretch both came from Montreal, both in the same deal.


A GM with any lick of sense about player value would never make those trades.

As awful a GM as guys like Milbury and Waddel have been, they never made deals quite on the level of the Roy, and Turgeon-to-St. Louis, ones. Again, Milbury's worse trades were classic cases of getting burned on future-for-present deals. It happens. It can happen to even very good GMs (like Cliff Fletcher, imo). Hell, if the Stars end up losing to the Sabres in the 1999 Stanley Cup finals, the Nieuwendyk/Iginla trade becomes one that lives on forever in infamy for Stars fans. This is simply the risk GMs take with future-for-present deals.

Houle was on a whole different level of suckitude than that.

So, in short, I agree with the OP. Houle's probably the worst GM in the history of the League.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Milbury / Houle

The sad part of the Milbury and Houle eras is that both played for teams that had very strong GMs. Milbury for Harry Sinden in Boston who was a very good judge of hockey players but a poor judge of hockey coaches. Houle played for Sam Pollock in Montreal who was an excellent judge of hockey players - as in bye Rejean, go to the Nordiques you are not worth the money you are asking and coaches.

Yet neither Milbury or Houle showed any evidence that they learned anything from their mentors.

 

[Axxellien]

Eddie Chadwick:

I lived just south of Keswick, hometown of a couple of NHL goalies, Eddie Chadwick and Curtis Joseph, just across Lake Simcoe from Barrie, during Hap Emms heyday as head honcho of the Barrie Flyers Junior OHA team. He was very much respected in hockey circles then. But he may have exemplified the Peter Principle, the tendency of people to get promoted until they reach the level where they are incompetent.

By the way, Eddie Chadwick's step-brother, Jimmy Greer, was in my eighth grade class at Jersey Public School when Eddie got called up in the 1955-56 season to fill in for the injured Harry Lumley. Eddie played five games during that stint, let in only three goals for an amazing GAA of 0.60, and racked up two shutouts, as the Leafs won two and tied three. Needless to say, our class, most of them (not including me) Leafs fans, went wild. Every morning Jimmy would report about the telephone call to the family Eddie made every evening. Jimmy began calling himself Jimmy Chadwick instead of Jimmy Greer, and switched from defenceman to goaltender on the school team.

Eddie Chadwick made a sensational debut in Toronto, he was A Calder Trophy Finalist...He then became Bower`s backup in 1958-59..

 

[BedBeats]

Mike Keenan has left some negative impressions on the teams he GM'ed for.

 

[mobilus]

No mention of Phil Esposito so far? I'm throwing his hat into the ring.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

No mention of Phil Esposito so far? I'm throwing his hat into the ring.

Whilst I don't think Phil was by any means a great or even good GM, the fact he built the expansion Lightning from scratch into a fairly competitive team whereas his counterpart with the Senators, Mel Bridgman, steered that club into a 4 year long train crash kinda makes it hard to say Esposito was the worst ever. Maybe he's a pretty bad one but it can be said with some certainty that there's at least one guy worse.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Mike Keenan has left some negative impressions on the teams he GM'ed for.

it wasn't always roses for keenan, but chelios AND a second rounder for savard, pronger for shanahan, demitra for christer olson, and even bertuzzi and mccabe for linden tells me that he doesn't belong in this thread (even if he also gave away hasek and luongo).