Was Rejean Houle the worst GM in NHL history?

[habsjunkie2*]

Fletcher built a team into a Stanley Cup champion. I'd hardly call that horrible.

Some other candidates for worst ever:

Randy Sexton
John Ferguson Jr.
George Maguire
Ray Miron

John Ferguson Jr is nowhere close

 

[habsjunkie2*]

Cliff Fletcher did good in Calgary agreed and started good in Toronto but then what?

Deadline 96 he traded Kenny Jönsson, Darby Hendrickson, Sean Haggerty and a 1st round pick (Luongo) for Clark and Schneider He also lost Rhodes and Belanger to get Beaupre and Kirk Muller. 3 picks including a 1st rounder (Zubrus) for Yuchkevich. Andreychuk for a 2nd rounder and a 4th. Gartner for a 4th rounder. By 97 they were the worst team in the west and had to lose Gilmour, Ellett and Muller.

At the draft in 92 lost possible players liek Kasparitis and Carey (plus Ustorf and Jakopin) to get Brandon Convery, Grant Marshall and Mike Raitar.

By the time of the Kenny Jönsson trade he had traded 12 of the teams 18 most promising prospects. He were not a very good long term GM for the leafs.

Agreed, he was quite terrible for the Leafs

 

[sr edler]

michael barnett, phoenix coyotes, 2001-07

 

[jkrx]

Find me a GM with a perfect record and no unfavourable moves in their career. There's a reason Cliff Fletcher is in the Hockey Hall of Fame. His career is certainly very decorated and he was a great GM.

It's not about making some unfavourable trades. Its about making alot of them and turning a conference finalist to a pile of dog poo.

 

[Cool Beans Man]

It's not about making some unfavourable trades. Its about making alot of them and turning a conference finalist to a pile of dog poo.

Either way, he turned the Flames into Cup Champs (beating the Oilers en route - Steve Smith aside it still happened)

And pulled the Leafs out of their worst decade ever into back-to-back final four appearances (Wayne Gretzky high stick aside)

Hardly comparable to any of the crap Milbury pulled. (He's the guy who traded LUONGO when he actually had him, not just the draft pick)

 

[jkrx]

Either way, he turned the Flames into Cup Champs (beating the Oilers en route - Steve Smith aside it still happened)

And pulled the Leafs out of their worst decade ever into back-to-back final four appearances (Wayne Gretzky high stick aside)

Hardly comparable to any of the crap Milbury pulled. (He's the guy who traded LUONGO when he actually had him, not just the draft pick)

I never said he was as bad as Milbury I just said he wasnt far above him either. Riseborough is worse than Fletcher though.

 

[Cool Beans Man]

I never said he was as bad as Milbury I just said he wasnt far above him either. Riseborough is worse than Fletcher though.

It's not even close.

 

[Lead Role in a Cage]

Sam McMaster did a good job of making the Kings worse in the mid 90's, most notably trading away Zhitnik and Sydor, both in their early 20's, for pieces not worth mentioning (besides Phillipe Boucher) but more importantly gave away Gretzky for Roman Vopat, Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif and a 1st (Matt Zultek).

Of course ownership and the organization was a mess, but these deals were nothing but brutal. Having Blake, Sydor and Zhitnik groomed together would have given the Kings quite a D core for years. Rumours had Pronger in the Gretzky deal (not sure how much truth there is to it) and adding him to the D-mix would also have, under the right circumstances, been OK. Dreaming in the wrong direction (i.e. creating a false history) usually sucks.

 

[jkrx]

It's not even close.

Depends on how you see it. Milbury had owners up his ass... trying to make quick bucks while Fletcher were GM for the most stable team in the NHL. Fletcher is a big reason as to why maple leafs have had so many problems the last decade. He basically had the same philosophy as Milbury. Trade young players, prospects and draft choices for short term moderate success (milbury didnt do it for success tho).

 

[Sebastien Centomo]

3 picks including a 1st rounder (Zubrus) for Yuchkevich.

I like that this is a bad trade. Yushkevich was an assistant captain for the Leafs and an All-Star. He's probably one of the most fondly remembered Maple Leaf defenseman of the last 30 years.

You also, for some reason, forgot to mention that Fletcher got a second rounder along with Yushkevich, but remembered to mention the extra picks that were sent to the Flyers.

 

[jkrx]

I like that this is a bad trade. Yushkevich was an assistant captain for the Leafs and an All-Star. He's probably one of the most fondly remembered Maple Leaf defenseman of the last 30 years.

You also, for some reason, forgot to mention that Fletcher got a second rounder along with Yushkevich, but remembered to mention the extra picks that were sent to the Flyers.

Leafs fans must have weird standards if Yuchkevich is the most fondly remembered D of the last 30 years. He's not a bad defenseman but he wasn't worth a 1st pick straight up. Besides the trade were bad in context with the other trades.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Wayne Gretzky

Wayne Gretzky is linked to some of the weaker GM hires in history.

Sam McMaster:

http://www.soogreyhounds.com/content.php?ID=62

was the GM in Sault Ste Marie where Wayne Gretzky played junior then with little NHL qualifications surfaced in LA with Wayne when the Kings needed a GM. Sam granted Wayne his wish of leaving L.A.

Michael Barnett - was Wayne Gretzky's long time agent. Phoenix with new ownership including Wayne needed a GM guess who showed up with no appropriate NHL experience.

Not what you know but who.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Don't forget Mel Bridgman, Ottawa's first GM. Only lasted a year but there was a reason for that. Messed up the expansion draft because they went by a conditional list of available players and didn't bother to look at the actual list which was handed to them right before the draft. As such he is responsible as the main architect of what was maybe the worst NHL team ever. Sure, an expansion draft doesn't usually offer a lot of good players but Tampa managed to assemble a much more competitive squad.

Then in the actual draft their first pick, Yashin, was pretty good in what was overall not the best draft class but they had planned to take Roman Hamrlik at that position as they didn't expect Tampa to pick him. Their plan was then to pick a few Czech guys later in the draft so Hamrlik would have a couple compatriots to befriend on the team. Trouble is that they picked these guys anyway in spite of not getting Hamrlik - needless to say none of them had any impact in the NHL and there's a combined 7 NHL goals between them. Not that their non-Czech remaining picks really did anything, Patrick Traverse was the only one with any notable time in the NHL and he had maybe 2 full and fairly unremarkable seasons in the league.

The way Bridgman handled these two inaugural drafts was just a comedy of errors and certainly a big reason as to why the Senators remained thoroughly uncompetitive for several years.

 

[jkrx]

Paddock is another funny GM.. Might not be the worst but he were definitly not good. He had mone problems in Jets but still. He assembled a constand mediocre team.

Some of his work were:

Trading Draper for a dollar

Olausson and a 7th for a 4th pick

Cheveldae and a pick for Roussel

Selänne, Chouinard and a 4th for Tverdovsky, Kilger and a 3rd.

Emerson for Turcotte

Eagles and Ulanov for a 3rd and 5th.

While he did some good trades he constantly did some bad ones to keep the team mediocre.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wayne Gretzky is linked to some of the weaker GM hires in history.

Sam McMaster:

http://www.soogreyhounds.com/content.php?ID=62

was the GM in Sault Ste Marie where Wayne Gretzky played junior then with little NHL qualifications surfaced in LA with Wayne when the Kings needed a GM. Sam granted Wayne his wish of leaving L.A.

Michael Barnett - was Wayne Gretzky's long time agent. Phoenix with new ownership including Wayne needed a GM guess who showed up with no appropriate NHL experience.

Not what you know but who.

Ah, the legend of one Sam "The Disaster" McMaster. He shipped off Alexei Zhitnik, Robb Stauber and Charlie Huddy to Buffalo to bring in Gretzky's pal, Grant Fuhr, along with Philippe Boucher and quite possibly one of the worst players I've ever seen, Denis Tsygurov. It's amazing how Boucher would eventually be the player McMaster and the Kings were hoping he would become. Unfortunately, it took until 2001 for Boucher to reach his potential.

McMaster traded Rick Tocchet for Kevin Stevens who at the time was washed up and a shell of his former self. Then the Gretzky trade that brought in Craig Johnson, Patrice Tardif and Roman Vopat. Yet another disaster.

To his credit, he made two moves that helped the Kings future right before making way for Dave Taylor. He dealt Jari Kurri, Marty McSorley and Shane Churla to the Rangers for Mattias Norstrom, Ian Laperriere, Ray Ferraro and Nathan LaFayette. Kurri and McSorley were pending free agents who departed, Norstrom and Laperriere became mainstays in Los Angeles for many years.

He also moved Ed Olczyk to the Penguins for Glen Murray. Murray then breaks out to become a proven scorer with the LA Kings and would later be moved as a central figure in a trade that brought in Jason Allison.

But ultimately, yes, McMaster certainly was one of the worst and least qualified GMs at the time. The history of George Maguire as GM is also legendary. He squandered away many 1st round selections.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Mike Milbury was the Wayne Gretzky of bad GM's.

Houle was more of a Jagr.

Also worth considering, the Vancouver Canucks hold the NHL record for the most consecutive losing seasons... their GM's during that period; Jake Milford, Harry Neale and (especially) Jack Gordon, all belong in a bad GM conversation.

 

[VanIslander]

You know that low-budget B-rate movie that was soooooo bad it was hilarious? That was Milbury.

Mike Milbury was the Wayne Gretzky of bad GM's. Houle was more of a Jagr.

 

[Hawkalyzer]

Mike Smith had a nice run with the Hawks:

-Letting Tony Amonte go after making the playoffs for the first time in years. It took until last year to make it back.

-Trading defenseman Bryan McCabe to Toronto for Alexander Karpovtsev.

-His Russian draft obsession, none of whom panned out.

-Hiring Alpo Suhohen.

 

[Big Phil]

Mike Smith had a nice run with the Hawks:

-Trading defenseman Bryan McCabe to Toronto for Alexander Karpovtsev.

-His Russian draft obsession, none of whom panned out.

-Hiring Alpo Suhohen.

Oh Leafs fans know all about Mike Smith too. If he bothered to pick decent Russians/Europeans then we have a different story but he would go after ones you wouldn't want on your 4th line

 

[KingGallagherXI]

Milbury is known as the worst GM but I beg to differ. Patrick Roy is the second best goaltender in the history of the NHL and he traded him, for what? Here's what most likely happened:

HOULE: Hey Pierre, what do you give me for Patrick Roy?
LACROIX: [mute]WHOOOOOOOHOOOHOOO!!!!!!![/unmute] Well, I don't know... Listen, I'll give you Ruckinsky and Jocelyn Thibeault.
HOULE: Well, sounds good.
HOULE'S SECRETARY: Réjean, maybe you should, you know, negociate.
HOULE: [mute]Right, right.[/unmute] Listen Pierre, I want, what's his name... Kovashlenkov?
LACROIX: Kovalenko? I don't know Réjean, he's a pretty good player for us... Tell you what, throw in Mike Keane and it's a done deal.
HOULE: Deal! I'll fax you the papers right away. *Hangs up*


LACROIX: *evil, uncontrollable laugh*
HOULE: Boy, did I show him who's the boss!

Overall Houle doomed the Habs to 10+ years of misery.

 

[jkrx]

Milbury is known as the worst GM but I beg to differ. Patrick Roy is the second best goaltender in the history of the NHL and he traded him, for what? Here's what most likely happened:

HOULE: Hey Pierre, what do you give me for Patrick Roy?
LACROIX: [mute]WHOOOOOOOHOOOHOOO!!!!!!![/unmute] Well, I don't know... Listen, I'll give you Ruckinsky and Jocelyn Thibeault.
HOULE: Well, sounds good.
HOULE'S SECRETARY: Réjean, maybe you should, you know, negociate.
HOULE: [mute]Right, right.[/unmute] Listen Pierre, I want, what's his name... Kovashlenkov?
LACROIX: Kovalenko? I don't know Réjean, he's a pretty good player for us... Tell you what, throw in Mike Keane and it's a done deal.
HOULE: Deal! I'll fax you the papers right away. *Hangs up*


LACROIX: *evil, uncontrollable laugh*
HOULE: Boy, did I show him who's the boss!

Overall Houle doomed the Habs to 10+ years of misery.

Roys trade value was rather small because all GMs knew he wanted out of Montreal. Just like when Gretzky wanted out of Kings or Lindros from Philly. Those GMs didnt have much control over the deals. I dont even think there were any better deals for Habs to take. I would rather blame the coach (and Roy + Corey) than the GM for the that whole fiasco.

Besides habs fans havent actually been very supportive of the goalies over the years. It might have been a good trade if Thibault have had the fans support instead of the constant reminder that he wasnt as good as Roy.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Jocelyn Thibault

Roys trade value was rather small because all GMs knew he wanted out of Montreal. Just like when Gretzky wanted out of Kings or Lindros from Philly. Those GMs didnt have much control over the deals. I dont even think there were any better deals for Habs to take. I would rather blame the coach (and Roy + Corey) than the GM for the that whole fiasco.

Besides habs fans havent actually been very supportive of the goalies over the years. It might have been a good trade if Thibault have had the fans support instead of the constant reminder that he wasnt as good as Roy.

Biggest problem with Jocelyn Thibault was that he did not mature physically and could not meet the physical demands of the position.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/t/thibajo01.html

He was the most promising of the young goalies available. In terms of longevity, which was one of the criteria in the trade, Thibault managed to hang around for more than 12 seasons. Better than Fiset or some of the other young goalies from the mid 1990's.

 

[KingGallagherXI]

Roys trade value was rather small because all GMs knew he wanted out of Montreal. Just like when Gretzky wanted out of Kings or Lindros from Philly. Those GMs didnt have much control over the deals. I dont even think there were any better deals for Habs to take. I would rather blame the coach (and Roy + Corey) than the GM for the that whole fiasco.

Besides habs fans havent actually been very supportive of the goalies over the years. It might have been a good trade if Thibault have had the fans support instead of the constant reminder that he wasnt as good as Roy.

Then you don't trade him, it's as simple as that. Try to fix the situation and if it doesn't work, just scratch him, until his contract expires or someone makes you a decent and acceptable offer. The offers WILL become better over time. If no one wants to pay the price, then they will not get Patrick Roy. Roy should have landed Forsberg and Thibeault, period.

 

[02m3smg]

Don't forget Mel Bridgman, Ottawa's first GM.

"Ottawa apologizes"

 

[cynicism]

Oh Leafs fans know all about Mike Smith too. If he bothered to pick decent Russians/Europeans then we have a different story but he would go after ones you wouldn't want on your 4th line

I'm still pissed he traded Jason Smith for mid round draft pick. All those years we had Aki freakin' Berg as our "shutdown" defenseman

I'm not the biggest fan of Fletch's tenure as Leaf GM, but doesn't belong in this discussion.