Was Muller a better coach than Peters?

[bluedevil58*]

I see a lack of talent on the blue line. But I feel our top 6 was/is pretty talented from the past 3 years. I am not impressed with Skinner. How many turn overs does he have per shift? It's at least 2.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I'm mostly happy with Peters other than results in the standings, but I don't blame him much for that. I like his straightforward system and the fact that a lot of the team's underlying stats and the special teams are often so much better. It's also great that he's brought some level of accountability and the guys typically have given an honest effort.

I don't love the line and lineup shuffling all the time. And I haven't always agreed with his scratching of players and goalie decisions, but they haven't been majorly bad for the most part, so no bid deal. The good so outweighs the bad. He definitely needs to be given next season and the season after to see where things stand.

However, I don't agree that he's the best coach we've had yet by a long shot. Lavi did win a Cup and almost took an injury devestated team to the playoffs. His welcome was worn out, but he's shown by taking the Flyers to the SCF and the Preds to a great first year he's a great coach. While he may burn out quick, I think equally as many of his failures were on JR.

Maurice made the playoffs with some pretty bad teams during a time with no cap, took a team to the SCF, and took a team to the ECF in a rough spot by patching up some of Lavi's problems. He's also showing that when he's on a team that isn't the Leafs that he's a pretty darn solid coach. He also has/had a hell of a lot of shortcomings, but Peters has quite a way to go to match any of that.

Muller, time will tell if he ever gets another head coaching shot. Could be he was partially a victim of JR and the country club, but unlike the others, there isn't much positive to speak of from his tenure here. He was after all a very well thought of coaching prospect when we snatched him up. Definitely like Peters over him as far as a fit for this team at the very least, but who knows what his story will look like long term.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

i think we should hire claude steve noel

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

bpeto: "Estuans interius, ira vehementi!"*

* I promised some friends I'd start swearing less. Secretly, I still swear just as much, I just do it in Latin.

 

[Unsustainable]

Bill Peters > Captain Kirk

 

[AD Skinner]

I think some of the incessant line juggling comes from the fact that Peters (and pretty well everybody) knew from the get-go that this season was lost. He essentially has 82 extra preseason games to tinker, might as well try out any idea you can come up with and see what works. Next year will be much more telling I think, assuming one of the Staal brothers doesn't break their collarbone riding a jetski or some ridiculous BS over the summer.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I think some of the incessant line juggling comes from the fact that Peters (and pretty well everybody) knew from the get-go that this season was lost. He essentially has 82 extra preseason games to tinker, might as well try out any idea you can come up with and see what works. Next year will be much more telling I think, assuming one of the Staal brothers doesn't break their collarbone riding a jetski or some ridiculous BS over the summer.

That's all well and good, but if you switch as quickly as he has at some times, you don't really know whether or not it could have worked.

 

[What the Faulk]

I think some of the incessant line juggling comes from the fact that Peters (and pretty well everybody) knew from the get-go that this season was lost. He essentially has 82 extra preseason games to tinker, might as well try out any idea you can come up with and see what works. Next year will be much more telling I think, assuming one of the Staal brothers doesn't break their collarbone riding a jetski or some ridiculous BS over the summer.

That's not really a thing coaches should be thinking. Fans, sure. Coaches, no.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

That's not really a thing coaches should be thinking. Fans, sure. Coaches, no.

Every indication is that neither the coach nor the team gave up after October. The post-game quotes all talked about how Peters was keeping the morale high, despite the 0-6-2 record. How they still believed they could make it, despite needing 94 points in 74 games.

After November, it was a bit easier to push that agenda as well. They had won a few games, and gone .500 on the month, so it wasn't a total loss. They still needed 79 points in 59 games though.

It wasn't until after December that there was an indication that the players knew the season was lost. Hainsey said after the Christmas break that the players "knew they weren't going to win 34 out of the remaining 38 games", but "still wanted to win as much as they could."

Of course, the team had a 10-23-4 record, so I'd say it was fair to call the season a lost cause by that point.

 

[AD Skinner]

We can argue "should"s forever, and while I agree that his priority should be to win as many games as he can, he doesn't do so in a vacuum. Whether Francis told him when JStaal went down that he wasn't going to do anything about it and just do the best you can or Peters had to draw his own conclusions from the GM's inaction, the message was clear from before the season even started in my opinion that there was no plan to be competitive this year.

 

[What the Faulk]

We can argue "should"s forever, and while I agree that his priority should be to win as many games as he can, he doesn't do so in a vacuum. Whether Francis told him when JStaal went down that he wasn't going to do anything about it and just do the best you can or Peters had to draw his own conclusions from the GM's inaction, the message was clear from before the season even started in my opinion that there was no plan to be competitive this year.

Goes for Francis too. Guarantee no team goes into the season planning to fail.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Goes for Francis too. Guarantee no team goes into the season planning to fail.

 

[tarheelhockey]

There are many reasons to fire a coach in the NHL.

Failure to make Alex Semin and Jeff Skinner play great hockey is not one of them.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

1.) Things feel palpably better with Peters (and Francis) than under Maurice or Lavy or Maurice (part 2) or Muller and Rutherford. Different...like there's an organizational philosophy and a plan at work. A roadmap rather than short-sightedness.

2.) That said...I expect that if Peters can't make it work by mid-season of next year with guys like Semin and Skinner that haven't yet clicked here under him...he's going to be fired. You can't stick with a coach that can't make it work with the best players you have (and can't move except at a loss of value) and won't adapt to do so. Organizational accountability and roadmaps are nice...but the plans have to fit the tools in the toolbox.

I like Peters and his system but I do not believe he has a long leash. He was given a year to implement his system, if the Canes are a bottom-5 team again next year he is gone.

Canes need to make money and the only way they can do it is in the Playoffs. This isn't a 5-year rebuild, this is crunch time before the Canes become the next Coyotes.

Personally I think the Canes will be a bubble team next year after a half-decent Free Agency where some depth is brought in. That and a well-deserved Karma Draft lottery win.

I don't agree with the bolded statements at all.

Through multiple coaches, the "talent" on this team has finished in the bottom 8 of the league for four of the last five seasons, and are currently looking at a finish of 25th or 26th this year. 13/14: 24th; 12/13: 26th; 11/12: 23rd; 10/11: 19th; 09/10: 24th. At some point, you have to acknowledge that the ingredients are bad, and it's not the chef. IMO, it isn't simply the coaching, it's 1) a lack of talent 2) a very sub par defense (which will only get worse). 3) Star (highly paid) players not playing up to their potential (or salary) on a regular basis and 4) a serious lack of drafting / developing of players (meaning we rarely get guys making significant contributions on the cheap unless they are a top pick and come straight in).

From everything I've heard in the press, from Waddell (reference the email GP got), from RF...they are putting a system/roadmap in place for long term success, that includes drafting/developing and Peters is a key part of that long term plan. Unless he totally loses the locker room, I would be shocked if he is fired, even if they are a bottom dweller again next year.

I honestly don't see them doing any better next season. Sekera is gone and I don't see them signing any significant free agents due to budget and because very few "good" free agents would want to come here. Their defense will likely be brutal. And I agree with others, they have already tried to move Semin so if Semin doesn't perform better next year, I doubt the Canes will keep Semin and fire Peters. Same, but to a lesser degree will apply to Skinner.

 

[AD Skinner]

Francis and Waddell have said over and over that they are planning longterm, that we all need to be patient, etc. I don't know how you can translate anything but "we are tanking for draft picks" out of that. Of course they can't come out and say that in so many words, but that is what is going on. Maybe not to the degree of Buffalo but it is happening.

 

[What the Faulk]

That's not the same thing.

 

[sheriff bart]

Remember that time something bad happened and Muller stood behind the bench looking like he ran his car in the ditch and didn't know how? That was awesome.

Muller inspired no confidence in me. It had to affect his players when they would look to the bench for guidance and Muller was looking lost (as usual). Even though the record is worse, I think the coaching staff has done a better job in all areas except for scoring goals. Look at the stats on special teams, shots against, and shots for. They are all where they need to be and better than last year. These guys couldn't score in a women's prison with a pocket full of pardons.

After 4 coaches, it has to come down to the core group of players.

Oh yeah, Semin sucks.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Remember that time something bad happened and Muller stood behind the bench looking like he ran his car in the ditch and didn't know how? That was awesome.

Muller inspired no confidence in me. It had to affect his players when they would look to the bench for guidance and Muller was looking lost (as usual). Even though the record is worse, I think the coaching staff has done a better job in all areas except for scoring goals. Look at the stats on special teams, shots against, and shots for. They are all where they need to be and better than last year. These guys couldn't score in a women's prison with a pocket full of pardons.

After 4 coaches, it has to come down to the core group of players.

Oh yeah, Semin sucks.

Which Muller look do you mean?

There were so many to choose from!

 

[sheriff bart]

I cooked up this gem on Muller a while back...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I see a lack of talent on the blue line. But I feel our top 6 was/is pretty talented from the past 3 years. I am not impressed with Skinner. How many turn overs does he have per shift? It's at least 2.

The numbers don't really agree with that assessment though. Other than the strike shortened year where Semin, Staal, Tlusty were on fire for about 30 games, our top 6 hasn't really been very impressive on a consistent basis.

Our top 6 last season:

E. Staal: 21 goals, 61 points
Skinner: 33 goals, 54 points
Semin: 22 goals, 42 points
J. Staal: 15 goals, 40 point
N. Gerbe: 16 goals, 31 points
J. Tlusty: 16 goals, 30 points

And this season, it's not any better. Let's face it, when we pay these guys so much money, that's not enough production.