Was moving to Brooklyn a mistake for the Islanders?

[Fenway]

The Islanders after 5 home games in Brooklyn are dead last in attendance. Only the opener against Chicago was a sellout.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

15,795 - Chicago
11,183 - Winnipeg
10,542 - Nashville
11,577 - San Jose
13,113 - Boston

I was at the game in Brooklyn last night and while I knew the building had issues concerning hockey it was much worse than I thought.

Now Islanders ownership from all accounts is doing quite nicely with this deal as it has been reported the team is getting $50 million a year from Barclays to play there and in return gave Barclays control of marketing and ticket sales. Throw in the TV deal with MSG and team is looking profitable again which has not been the case the last 20 years in Uniondale.

Last night frankly felt like a Boston home game, even more than in recent years in Uniondale. The late night Amtrak to Boston was packed with hockey fans and the railroad even put an extra train on to handle the overflow.

You can hear the crowd on this clip.

[NHL]2015020101-X-a[/NHL]

There is the Mets factor to consider and there have been head to head conflicts and the Islanders and Mets share the same fanbase.

That said, I met up with a long time friend who is an Islanders STH from Lindenhurst who in 20 years only missed 4 games in Uniondale and this year has already missed 2 and had to eat the tickets as there was no demand on the secondary market.

He told me driving simply isn't an option anymore as parking in Brooklyn is limited and quite expensive. He tells me the LIRR has been a horror show as he has to change trains at Jamaica and as of now the railroad can not meet demand. His theory is that while the Nets have been in Brooklyn for 4 years now they don't have that many fans on Long Island.

Obviously the Islanders have few options here. It is probably too late to rethink the renovations at the Nassau Coliseum and it is doubtful that Barclays will spend any major money to correct seating flaws for hockey.

Most telling for me was what our server at Junior's ( a famous Brooklyn restaurant ) told us. She said concerts and Nets games we see an upsurge is business but so far there is no bump from the Islanders. That tells her that there is little interest in the team from Brooklyn residents at this point.

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[Iceman]

Too early to tell but some of these issues is mind boggling how they passed until opening night.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Just anecdotally from living in North Brooklyn - people with established roots in Brooklyn who like hockey are already Rangers fans. The newer transient/yuppie/hipster crowd who would be willing to bandwagon anything Brooklyn generally can't afford good seats, and who would want to pay anything for those obstructed views?

 

[Fenway]

Too early to tell but some of these issues is mind boggling how they passed until opening night.

Then you have the mystery of the car

It would seem that Barclays could generate more revenue from seats there over the season instead of a car being parked there.

Assuming the reports that the Islanders are getting $50 million a season from Barclays is true their HRR is going way up. I am concerned the fanbase is going to be destroyed long term.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

By a longshot yes. But it was the only choice.

 

[Killion]

^^^ This is obviously not good, not good at all. 5yrs, barring a serious uptick, they could well be on the move again.

 

[cutchemist42]

I know some Barclay skeptics got derided here by some overtly defensice posters, but some of their predictions are being proven right. This arena/situation sounds bad, and its why Im glad Seattle in Key West was not shoe-horned in a few years back.

 

[Fenway]

^^^ This is obviously not good, not good at all. 5yrs, barring a serious uptick, they could well be on the move again.

I thought they would easily sell out every game in Brooklyn and 4 games in that is obviously not the case.

I estimated there were at least 3,000 Bruins fans at the game and to only draw 13,000 on a Friday night against a O6 team must be setting off alarm bells.

The key to this is how much Baclays gets back on their 41 games plus playoffs investment of $50M and over the longterm would they be better off booking other events into the arena. If the reports that Barclays has an opt out after 5 years what would the Islanders go if the arena decides this isn't working?

 

[madhi19]

I thought they would easily sell out every game in Brooklyn and 4 games in that is obviously not the case.

I estimated there were at least 3,000 Bruins fans at the game and to only draw 13,000 on a Friday night against a O6 team must be setting off alarm bells.

The key to this is how much Baclays gets back on their 41 games plus playoffs investment of $50M and over the longterm would they be better off booking other events into the arena. If the reports that Barclays has an opt out after 5 years what would the Islanders go if the arena decides this isn't working?

I figure they know if it working or not well before the five years is up. This leave the Islanders with some time to figure out a more permanent solution.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Then you have the mystery of the car

The car reminds me of going to games in Finland...it makes things feel cheap for some reason. It's one thing when it's in a ~4,000 seat arena in a horseshoe shape, it's another when it's in an arena in the highest level of the sport.

 

[Killion]

If the reports that Barclays has an opt out after 5 years what would the Islanders go if the arena decides this isn't working?

I figure they know if it working or not well before the five years is up. This leave the Islanders with some time to figure out a more permanent solution.

Yeah. Their Local TV Contract brings in $27M per annum and it doesnt expire until the end of the 2030/31 season. Barclays cant be jackhammered & dynamited into shape so thats out, and unless there is a significant increase in attendance, demand, I dont see them continuing to pay $50M to the club after year 5..... So indeed, where would or could they go and still retain the broadcast contract without having to build yet another arena? Two choices: they could if MSG & the Rangers/NHL are willing, play out of MSG and I really dont see that as practible or... and Im not entirely sure how it would affect
the local broadcast contract, move to Connecticut. Hartford.

 

[Heretic]

personally I'll answer no as rangers tickets are insane, and i can usually go see an islanders game for much less than i would my hometown sabres! I will say that the seats aren't terrible, even high up, as long as you don't sit on the obstructed view side.

 

[GF]

That car probably brings in more revenue than empty seats no?

 

[Lame Lambert]

As a season ticket holder, the place has been empty in the lower bowl. Incredibly disappointing.

 

[Fenway]

I figure they know if it working or not well before the five years is up. This leave the Islanders with some time to figure out a more permanent solution.

I do not know if it is too late to rethink Nassau Coliseum as I believe the renovations have started.

If that is off the table you could see Madison Square Garden as a last ditch option only for MSG Network to protect their TV contract.

It is also possible the Mets may take another look at building an arena at Citi Field but that would be risky as they would be competing with a renovated Nassau Coliseum and Barclays for non-hockey events.

I don't know how much the LIRR can tweak the Jamaica/Brooklyn shuttle to increase capacity.

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/LIRR_Flatbush_Avenue_Line

 

[Fenway]

As a season ticket holder, the place has been empty in the lower bowl. Incredibly disappointing.

I didn't meet a single Islanders fan last night who is happy with the move. The understand Wang was backed into a corner by local politics and at least for all the warts in Brooklyn the team is not in Kansas City or Quebec City.

The only reason the opener sold out was because they were playing Chicago.

 

[Killion]

Most telling for me was what our server at Junior's ( a famous Brooklyn restaurant ) told us....

... oh? and before taking your order, she also tell you you havent really lived until youve had cheesecake at Juniors Fenway?

 

[Cacciaguida]

maybe they should bring back the icegirls and sparky the dragon.

In all seriousness, the Devils are doing just as bad with their new arena as well.

Maybe they should price tickets properly instead of pricing tickets as high as possible and making the atmosphere a corporate borefest.

 

[Fenway]

... oh? and before taking your order, she also tell you you havent really lived until youve had cheesecake at Juniors Fenway?

I dined quite well after the game thank you.

Next to us were 4 women from Ontario who were weeping as the Jays were eliminated.

 

[Killion]

^^^ Err m'Garrrd. Thats looks delicious!.... You would take pictures.

 

[Fenway]

^^^ Err m'Garrrd. Thats looks delicious!.... You would take pictures.

Let's just say postgame options in Brooklyn far exceed Uniondale

In a couple of weeks I will send you pics from Charcuterie Hébraïque de Montréal

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Short term, I think that the Isles are happy with their guaranteed payday.

Long term, I think that they'll regret it. Barclays isn't going to want to sink cash into a sinkhole for long and I believe that they have a five year out clause and might very well exercise the option once it comes up. If that happens, the Isles will be in a tricky situation where they have to likely go back to Nassau and deal with a situation where their core Long Island fanbase feels like they've been abandoned for a few years while the supposed new fanbase in the city itself never developed. Either that, or Barclays will renogitiate a deal where the Isles continue playing in Brooklyn for significantly less money.

 

[powerstuck]

Hey as long as the team makes money, who cares about the paying fans.

 

[Lame Lambert]

I didn't meet a single Islanders fan last night who is happy with the move. The understand Wang was backed into a corner by local politics and at least for all the warts in Brooklyn the team is not in Kansas City or Quebec City.

The only reason the opener sold out was because they were playing Chicago.

The opener was not "sold out", the seats were paid for but no one showed up. Some are happy about the move, but most are not. I was ready to embrace it this year, but it's clear that the fan base has not bought in and no one from Brooklyn really cares. I said it in the other thread that I'm really worried this team will move in 5 years because the arena isn't viable. If the arena was built for hockey I don't think people would be as upset about it. Yes it's inconvenient compared to Nassau (I used to just walk from my dorm right to the games in 5 mins), but I think the arena issues are more of a problem than the inconvenience.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Short term, I think that the Isles are happy with their guaranteed payday.

Long term, I think that they'll regret it. Barclays isn't going to want to sink cash into a sinkhole for long and I believe that they have a five year out clause and might very well exercise the option once it comes up. If that happens, the Isles will be in a tricky situation where they have to likely go back to Nassau and deal with a situation where their core Long Island fanbase feels like they've been abandoned for a few years while the supposed new fanbase in the city itself never developed. Either that, or Barclays will renogitiate a deal where the Isles continue playing in Brooklyn for significantly less money.

Agreed, but I just can't see them moving back to Nassau. The renovation plans will not be able to accommodate them, and the project hasn't even started yet. I drive by it everyday and they are doing absolutely nothing. The team actually just moved out of the Coliseum offices yesterday. No way they can change the renovation plans, get it approved by these idiotic politicians, and build it in 5 years.