Was Lucic the most idiotic thing Katz and his friends have done ?

[thadd]

Trying to sign David Clarkson was worse.

We outbid the Leafs but it wasn't enough.

 

[oXo Cube]

He signed the contract in July.

Guy should've never gotten that considering weeks before Langkow who was quite the comparable went for less years and dollars.

So he did. It was a long time ago now.

In any case point was the player we got on that contract was never the player Lowe wanted to sign.

 

[joestevens29]

So he did. It was a long time ago now.

In any case point was the player we got on that contract was never the player Lowe wanted to sign.

Hence why you probably should wait until after a guy has major surgery before locking him in long-term.

 

[Joey Moss]

Pretty much 95% of HFOil fans wanted Lucic at the time.

So no.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Pretty much 95% of HFOil fans wanted Lucic at the time.

So no.

So mistaken fan plurality absolves an org of getting rid of Hall and "replacing his points" with Lucic for the same contract cost?

People in Boston told us Lucic wasn't the same player he was. I knew that myself from watching his level of play dive for years.

Starting with the 2014 playoffs, where the Habs went at Lucic relentlessly, mocked him relentlessly, his moment in the sun was largely over. People should revisit the events of that series and how an upstart Habs team, and some upstart players on that team made Lucic look like a joke.

I'm not convinced Lucic ever really got over it. Then his dad dies and he hasn't been the same since. Its hard for anybody when you have some traumatic things like that occur. Harder for a person in the spotlight at the highest level of expectation in their endeavor. Some never get over it, and never function ideally again. Combine it with the medical challenges Lucic has with scheuermann's disease and the hill is too much to climb. This was a very risky signing from the word go. That Hall was gone made it always the worst because it left Milan with the feeling he had big huge boots to fill, and that he was making all this money and thinking about being worth it.

All the signs were there that this was going to be a brutal contract acquisition that was never going to be close to panning out. This being stated at the time. By several posters and pundits.

 

[Aceboogie]

Pretty much 95% of HFOil fans wanted Lucic at the time.

So no.

That doesnt excuse it. Majority fo fans will support basically whatever the team does. And there is also a pretty massive hive mindset for fans in any sport

There was ALOT of vocal disapproval of the contract. Or of any of the major contracts given out that summer. It was a terrible deal at the time, a fair amount of people were calling it that (and being called negative pessimists).

I would say that yes, this was one of the worst moves made by Katz and co. The Hall trade is up there. But the Hall trade was also made on the assumption Lucic could replace Hall (biggest LOL in history).

But overall, Katz has lost it as an owner. One of the worst in the league/sports. He has done great things off ice. But on ice, over the last 10 years, Katz has allowed/had a hand in, the worst run franchise in maybe all of sports

 

[Aceboogie]

Majority of people liked the Hall trade
A fair % supported the Reinhart/ Eberle trades

Its tough to admit, but its a hive mindset. Hockey fans grow up being influenced by the same small group of hockey analysts/media. They all form same evaluation processes. So just because a large majority "like" a move, doesnt mean its good. It just means it checks all the boxes that Don Cherry would like

 

[Drivesaitl]

Majority of people liked the Hall trade
A fair % supported the Reinhart/ Eberle trades

Its tough to admit, but its a hive mindset. Hockey fans grow up being influenced by the same small group of hockey analysts/media. They all form same evaluation processes. So just because a large majority "like" a move, doesnt mean its good. It just means it checks all the boxes that Don Cherry would like

That doesnt excuse it. Majority fo fans will support basically whatever the team does. And there is also a pretty massive hive mindset for fans in any sport

There was ALOT of vocal disapproval of the contract. Or of any of the major contracts given out that summer. It was a terrible deal at the time, a fair amount of people were calling it that (and being called negative pessimists).

I would say that yes, this was one of the worst moves made by Katz and co. The Hall trade is up there. But the Hall trade was also made on the assumption Lucic could replace Hall (biggest LOL in history).

But overall, Katz has lost it as an owner. One of the worst in the league/sports. He has done great things off ice. But on ice, over the last 10 years, Katz has allowed/had a hand in, the worst run franchise in maybe all of sports

These are excellent posts, encourage others to read, and I've said similar above. For years, if not decades its blatantly obvious the tendency is for fans to generally go with what the org does and approve of it, often times unconditionally. This is demonstrated more on this fanbase, than any other, due to the org futility and the fans basic blanket acceptance.

 

[Weitz]

Majority of people liked the Hall trade
A fair % supported the Reinhart/ Eberle trades

Its tough to admit, but its a hive mindset. Hockey fans grow up being influenced by the same small group of hockey analysts/media. They all form same evaluation processes. So just because a large majority "like" a move, doesnt mean its good. It just means it checks all the boxes that Don Cherry would like

Oilers fans always seem to back the managements decisions. Especially when the rest of hockey world sort of derides the decisions, it almost reinforces the mindset.

The hockey world was laughing at the Oilers after those deals, so people took the "well you just wait!" approach in hopes it would work out.

 

[CupofOil]

Majority of people liked the Hall trade
A fair % supported the Reinhart/ Eberle trades

Its tough to admit, but its a hive mindset. Hockey fans grow up being influenced by the same small group of hockey analysts/media. They all form same evaluation processes. So just because a large majority "like" a move, doesnt mean its good. It just means it checks all the boxes that Don Cherry would like

This is absolutely, positively 100% untrue.
There were some Oil King fans who were ok with the Reinhart deal (why is beyond me) but by and large, this place and Oilers social media were appalled by the Hall and Eberle trades, the Hall trade in particular which was armageddon around here when it happened.

The Lucic signing was another story, most people were on board with it even though they knew the term was troublesome including this guy.

 

[Aceboogie]

Oilers fans always seem to back the managements decisions. Especially when the rest of hockey world sort of derides the decisions, it almost reinforces the mindset.

The hockey world was laughing at the Oilers after those deals, so people took the "well you just wait!" approach in hopes it would work out.

Its not just limited to Oiler fans, even look at Calgary fan now after the Lucic trade. Most fans now would probably say they support the trade right now, 4 days after the trade. Or a lot of fans likely convinced themselves they liked the Eriksson/Okposo/Backes etc contracts. Fans tend to just support whatever move was made. Myself included, after a draft I look up our recently drafted prospects (whom most I havent heard of) and compare them to successful NHLers and think they have a much better chance than they actually do

 

[oXo Cube]

We're doing this again? This board rioted for an entire summer when Chia traded Taylor Hall.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Majority of people liked the Hall trade
A fair % supported the Reinhart/ Eberle trades

Its tough to admit, but its a hive mindset. Hockey fans grow up being influenced by the same small group of hockey analysts/media. They all form same evaluation processes. So just because a large majority "like" a move, doesnt mean its good. It just means it checks all the boxes that Don Cherry would like

this is untrue...most people HATED the Hall trade
some people might have agreed with the idea of trading Hall...most agreed Chiarelli didn't get near enough back for him

 

[Aceboogie]

This is absolutely, positively 100% untrue.
There were some Oil King fans who were ok with the Reinhart deal (why is beyond me) but by and large, this place and Oilers social media were appalled by the Hall and Eberle trades, the Hall trade in particular which was armageddon around here when it happened.

The Lucic signing was another story, most people were on board with it even though they knew the term was troublesome including this guy.

Few things:
-HFOil should start doing polls after big moves and close them a month after. That way we could actually see who was in favour of what at the time
-Our memory of the past gets shaded by current events, mine included.
-Oiler fans were hard against the Hall trade like the day it happened. But in the months and year after started to do a 180 since we made the playoffs and tried to attribute alot of the success to Larsson. I dont think anyone can disagree that after the 16/17 season, there was way, way, way too much "hey this deal made sense because we made the playoffs talk"
-Eberle trade was more indifference or support than Hall trade

Maybe its personally the Oiler fans I interact with in everyday life, because a shocking amount of them supported such deals. Maybe others associate with more level headed ones.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

I mean, trying to purchase the services of an actress wasn't a great look.

 

[CupofOil]

Few things:
-HFOil should start doing polls after big moves and close them a month after. That way we could actually see who was in favour of what at the time
-Our memory of the past gets shaded by current events, mine included.
-Oiler fans were hard against the Hall trade like the day it happened. But in the months and year after started to do a 180 since we made the playoffs and tried to attribute alot of the success to Larsson. I dont think anyone can disagree that after the 16/17 season, there was way, way, way too much "hey this deal made sense because we made the playoffs talk"
-Eberle trade was more indifference or support than Hall trade

Maybe its personally the Oiler fans I interact with in everyday life, because a shocking amount of them supported such deals. Maybe others associate with more level headed ones.

Of course people started to come around on the Hall trade a year after it happened. The Oilers just had a wildly successful season, Larsson played very well on a top pairing while Hall had a pedestrian season on a non-playoff team. Obviously it swayed back the other way again when Hall won the MVP and Larsson struggled.

The Eberle trade was more indifference mainly because some people were waiting to see what Chia did with the cap space then when he did nothing, people were left wondering WTF? Very few thought that the value was acceptable straight up.

 

[grego]

I only stayed less vocal about losing hall because we had won mcdavid. And I totally hadn't seen that coming so I accepting losing my favorite oiler at the time for a dman I knew next to nothing about.

The biggest issue I have with Lucic deal was how badly it was made. All the signing bonus is the issue not just the contract amount or length.

Had it been a pure six mill at seven years and all signing bonus in the first year or two it wouldn't be so bad.

But Chiarelli accepted a horribly designed contract that made the amount not the problem but that you can't buy it out affordably

 

[SK13]

"Katz and friends" is an interesting way to say Peter Chiarelli.

I mean, I get it, to some degree ownership is going to be complicit in every single thing the organization does: but c'mon, bruhs. This was his Bruin power forward enforcer at a time when Chia's all in on big and heavy. We know who authored that.

 

[rboomercat90]

This should be interesting reading on Lucic, and to look at it years later. the Lucic hoopla was all people in love with the thought of who Lucic was rather than the player, he actually was. Smelled this from the beginning and broke it down.

This is just one of the threads, and what people were saying;

Player Discussion - Milan Lucic

My only consolation in this is reading Calgary Flames boards and seeing the same type of posts there three years later. We aren’t the only ones being fooled.

 

[rboomercat90]

this is untrue...most people HATED the Hall trade
some people might have agreed with the idea of trading Hall...most agreed Chiarelli didn't get near enough back for him

This is the camp I fell into.

 

[CanmoreMike]

It isn't even top ten and I can't grasp how anyone would even think it was close.

It isn't like the Lucic contract was even that out of the ordinary. Eriksson, Okposo and Ladd all signed for similar regrettable deals that same day. Let's not re-write history here.

Hiring Eakins, the Koskinen extension, trading for Erik Cole and not realizing until training camp that he can't play left wing, signing Andrew Ference, MacT as GM are all way, way worse.

I agree with so much of this.

Taylor Hall scores 2 more points than Lucic in 2017. Lucic changed so much of the mindset and brought a solid veteran presence to this team. And in his second year he was still on pace for 50 points until his season went off the rails. He scored something like 23 points in 28 games before the Christmas break. What happened after is a huge mystery.

If we are talking about bad moves what about how badly MacT misplayed the defence before Chiarelli got here? We had a similar player in Jeff Petry as we eventually got in Adam Larsson. We had a puck moving RHS dman in Justin Schultz and MAC screwed up with both by over paying Schultz and underpaying Petry as he headed into UFA. Reverse both those moves and keep them long term and maybe the Hall trade isn’t necessary. Or you have other pieces to offer up. Petry and a 2017 2nd round pick for Larsson. Something along those lines.

Chiarelli ultimately deserved to be fired for this season but when he came here he was given a gun with no bullets as MacT and the boys had been outback using them for target practice.

Worst move by Katz and friends: being friends.

 

[nabob]

So mistaken fan plurality absolves an org of getting rid of Hall and "replacing his points" with Lucic for the same contract cost?

People in Boston told us Lucic wasn't the same player he was. I knew that myself from watching his level of play dive for years.

Starting with the 2014 playoffs, where the Habs went at Lucic relentlessly, mocked him relentlessly, his moment in the sun was largely over. People should revisit the events of that series and how an upstart Habs team, and some upstart players on that team made Lucic look like a joke.

I'm not convinced Lucic ever really got over it. Then his dad dies and he hasn't been the same since. Its hard for anybody when you have some traumatic things like that occur. Harder for a person in the spotlight at the highest level of expectation in their endeavor. Some never get over it, and never function ideally again. Combine it with the medical challenges Lucic has with scheuermann's disease and the hill is too much to climb. This was a very risky signing from the word go. That Hall was gone made it always the worst because it left Milan with the feeling he had big huge boots to fill, and that he was making all this money and thinking about being worth it.

All the signs were there that this was going to be a brutal contract acquisition that was never going to be close to panning out. This being stated at the time. By several posters and pundits.

This is so very true. I was actually quite surprised at how decent he was in his first season. I know a lot of those points were mooched off MCDavid and Drai, but he wasn’t as bad as I thought he would be. As soon as the club wasn’t looking good in his second season though his play and effort level fell off a cliff. Don’t think he’ll ever be even the shadow of the player he was as a Bruin.

As for worst move it has to be hiring Chia. If we simply would not have made a single trade during Chia’s time and drafted the BPA, we would be easily a playoff team and likely poised to make a cup run. Instead it will be a miracle if the Oilers don’t finish bottom 10 again.

 

[CanmoreMike]

I mean, trying to purchase the services of an actress wasn't a great look.

I wish Katz got busted with that today and there was some audio tape backing up her claims.

We got the arena. We got McDavid. We are keeping the team. Now leave Katz.

 

[Dan Kelly]

Biggest mistake Katz made was hiring buddies to run the Oilers, a practice he continues to this day and what continues to drag this franchise down!

 

[Jumptheshark]

Pretty much 95% of HFOil fans wanted Lucic at the time.

So no.

when Hall was traded we knew we were getting Lucic--his first year here Lucic was great--but things went sideways afterwards

we had McDavid and we thought we were set for several playoff runs and we knew the contract would bite us in the ass--just not after one year