Was Kobe better than LeBron?

[maroon 6]

I'm still annoyed LeBron choked in 2009 and 2010 and we didn't get Kobe vs LeBron finals

Choked?

 

[Voight]

Lebron is not in the same category as Kobe. LeBron should be compared to Magic.

He doesn't have what Kobe and Jordan had.

Kobe & Jordan were better scorers than LeBron, both insanely competitive and had the ability to "turn it on and turn it off" at will.

The Magic/Bron comparison is good, I remember when the Lakers signed him, one of the reason was that James likens himself to Magic and tries to model parts of his game after him. Its also not the first time I've heard the two be compared.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Kobe never had a season like LeBron did last year when his focus was on Hollywood and not on basketball even in the years between Shaq and pau Kobe's focus was still on basketball.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Kobe & Jordan were better scorers than LeBron, both insanely competitive and had the ability to "turn it on and turn it off" at will.

The Magic/Bron comparison is good, I remember when the Lakers signed him, one of the reason was that James likens himself to Magic and tries to model parts of his game after him. Its also not the first time I've heard the two be compared.

Kobe wasn't a better scorer than Lebron. He was a better jump shooter and made difficult shots at a higher rate. Lebron's superior physical tools allowed him to get to the rim far more often though: 36% of his field goal attempts as opposed to 22% of Kobe's were within 3 feet of the basket. In both regular season and postseason, his career scoring rates per possession are higher than Kobe's, and he did it on better efficiency.

 

[HisIceness]

I'm still annoyed LeBron choked in 2009 and 2010 and we didn't get Kobe vs LeBron finals

Shouldn't the blame go more towards the Cavaliers front office for not getting LeBron more/better help? Because those rosters w/o LeBron were just, I don't know, 'okay' at best, maybe? At some point it gets tiring dragging the rest of the team on your back.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I'm still annoyed LeBron choked in 2009 and 2010 and we didn't get Kobe vs LeBron finals

LeBron had one of the greatest series in NBA history against Orlando in 09. It is a team sport.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

This myth about Kobe being a "better scorer" than LeBron needs to die. LeBron matched Kobe's career pt total taking 2,000 less shots.. 2,000! All Kobe could do was score by chucking up 50 shots a game, yet LeBron still has a better PPG while being way more efficient. Add in LeBron being a better passer, smarter, bigger, stronger.. Better PPG, APG, RPG, SPG, BPG, FG%, 3pt%, 3 more MVPs, 1 more finals MVP, more 1st team all NBA... Kobe has the most blind fanboy army who refuse to accept facts. The dude is behind in literally every individual measure. LeBron is way better.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Shouldn't the blame go more towards the Cavaliers front office for not getting LeBron more/better help? Because those rosters w/o LeBron were just, I don't know, 'okay' at best, maybe? At some point it gets tiring dragging the rest of the team on your back.

Those rosters were definitely not "okay" lol. They won the draft lottery before LeBron showed up. As soon as he leaves, they go back to winning it. Absolutely terrible teams.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Kobe never had a season like LeBron did last year when his focus was on Hollywood and not on basketball even in the years between Shaq and pau Kobe's focus was still on basketball.

LeBron last season: 27-8-8. Wasn't focusing on basketball but still a better season than anyone in the league lol.

Btw, I don't remember any 3 year stretch of LeBron's career where he won zero playoff series. You know, like peak Kobe from 04/05-06/07 (missed the playoffs completely at 25 right at his peak)?

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Why wasn't LeBron focusing on basketball last year? Didn't Space Jam film this year?

I don't think Kobe was better btw...but he did seem more loved

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Why wasn't LeBron focusing on basketball last year? Didn't Space Jam film this year?

I don't think Kobe was better btw...but he did seem more loved

He spent the whole season attending Hollywood meetings and doing entertainment projects while having his agent pulling the strings to try to get AD to the Lakers. He could have easily played more games even with the groin injury to try to make a playoff push but he chose not to.

 

[Cassano]

He spent the whole season attending Hollywood meetings and doing entertainment projects while having his agent pulling the strings to try to get AD to the Lakers. He could have easily played more games even with the groin injury to try to make a playoff push but he chose not to.

If anything, this should be used against him. His defensive workrate last season was embarassing to watch. (It has been for the prior 3-4 years, until he tried again this season)

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Those rosters were definitely not "okay" lol. They won the draft lottery before LeBron showed up. As soon as he leaves, they go back to winning it. Absolutely terrible teams.

Year before Lebron: Worst record in NBA
Year after Lebron leaves: 2nd worst record in league

That team was abysmal besides #23, and he still was able to lead them to the NBA finals.

 

[bobbyking]

dam you're not even close

 

[Deficient Mode]

If anything, this should be used against him. His defensive workrate last season was embarassing to watch. (It has been for the prior 3-4 years, until he tried again this season)

Hard to think of a player whose motor to play both ends of the floor didn't decline through their mid 30s. Wouldn't call it embarrassing at all.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

He spent the whole season attending Hollywood meetings and doing entertainment projects while having his agent pulling the strings to try to get AD to the Lakers. He could have easily played more games even with the groin injury to try to make a playoff push but he chose not to.

Ahh I see, but yeah I think that should be a knock against him not giving it his all

 

[Cassano]

Hard to think of a player whose motor to play both ends of the floor didn't decline through their mid 30s. Wouldn't call it embarrassing at all.

Tim Duncan, who had years of mileage upon him never openly gave up on plays like LBJ did.



And his improvement in defensive play this season shows that he had the talent/ability to play elite defense the past 5 yrs, but rather chose to conserve himself for his 27-7-7 totals.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Tim Duncan, who had years of mileage upon him never openly gave up on plays like LBJ did.

Duncan's motor absolutely declined at the same point of his career as Lebron's did. His minutes went way down in season 13+. He became a ~29 minutes/game player instead of the ~34 minutes/game or more player he was earlier in his career. He carried a far smaller offensive burden at that point of his career (and he never did as much on offense as Lebron is doing at age 35), allowing him to focus on defense. Lebron is still playing 35 minutes a game. On top of that, big man defense especially 5+ years ago is much less physically taxing than perimeter defense, as a big man didn't have to move around nearly as much. The notion that Lebron's decline in defensive effort weakens his case compared to any other all-time great falls apart once you look at what every other player was doing after 15 years in the NBA. It's way more impressive that he's still this good, and his longevity is already a major advantage over the few players whose peak level could be compared to his.

 

[rent free]

LeBron is the 2nd best ever. Kobe ain't close to LeBron.

 

[Stylizer1]

Hard to think of a player whose motor to play both ends of the floor didn't decline through their mid 30s. Wouldn't call it embarrassing at all.

Jordan was NBA All-Defensive First Team his last 9 seasons and was 35 when he retired and also won the scoring title each season.

 

[clydesdale line]

LeBron is the 2nd best ever.

.... nah. Kareem, Wilt, maybe Magic I would put ahead of him.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Jordan was NBA All-Defensive First Team his last 9 seasons and was 35 when he retired and also won the scoring title each season.

97-98 was Jordan's 12th full season in the NBA. He had played significantly less basketball at that point than Lebron even if you include college. And his defensive impact had definitely declined from where it was 5-10 years earlier.

 

[Cassano]

Duncan's motor absolutely declined at the same point of his career as Lebron's did. His minutes went way down in season 13+. He became a ~29 minutes/game player instead of the ~34 minutes/game or more player he was earlier in his career. He carried a far smaller offensive burden at that point of his career (and he never did as much on offense as Lebron is doing at age 35), allowing him to focus on defense. Lebron is still playing 35 minutes a game. On top of that, big man defense especially 5+ years ago is much less physically taxing than perimeter defense, as a big man didn't have to move around nearly as much. The notion that Lebron's decline in defensive effort weakens his case compared to any other all-time great falls apart once you look at what every other player was doing after 15 years in the NBA. It's way more impressive that he's still this good, and his longevity is already a major advantage over the few players whose peak level could be compared to his.

Duncan's per 36 numbers were actually quite similar to his career numbers, except his very last season. And his role changed offensively when they signed Aldridge. Would Duncan not have produced at same efficiency if he played significant minutes - probably. But the scenario with LeBron is very different. Duncan got less touches offensively because of other key players around him, but his defensive game stayed elite and so was his offensive game (Albeit in limited spurts). LeBron on the other hand basically quit playing defense for a 3-4 year period, despite having the elite talent level to do so (As we are seeing this year where's he's a top 5-10 defensive player).

 

[Deficient Mode]

Duncan's per 36 numbers were actually quite similar to his career numbers, except his very last season. And his role changed offensively when they signed Aldridge. Would Duncan not have produced at same efficiency if he played significant minutes - probably. But the scenario with LeBron is very different. Duncan got less touches offensively because of other key players around him, but his defensive game stayed elite and so was his offensive game (Albeit in limited spurts). LeBron on the other hand basically quit playing defense for a 3-4 year period, despite having the elite talent level to do so (As we are seeing this year where's he's a top 5-10 defensive player).

Yes, the point is that Popovich prepared for Duncan's loss of energy as he aged by playing him less so he could remain effective while playing, whereas Lebron took it easy on some defensive possessions in the regular season as a result of his declining motor and speed as he aged, so he could continue to play on offense. Lebron's foot speed and energy have definitely declined noticeably from where he was 10 years ago. You're wildly overselling the change in his defense from last year to this year. He was still an effective defender last year despite the lapses, and he's not a top 10 defensive player this year.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

L

97-98 was Jordan's 12th full season in the NBA. He had played significantly less basketball at that point than Lebron even if you include college. And his defensive impact had definitely declined from where it was 5-10 years earlier.

I know this ain't a Jordan thread but man just think how much larger his trophy case would be if he went all out