Was Kobe better than LeBron?

[Bertuzzzi44]

The Black Mamba RIP. Legend.

LeBron is a great all around basketball player but is he better than prime Kobe? Kobe was one of the best isolation scorers of all time and shut down who ever he was guarding. His relentlessness, tenacity and will to win was incredible, he was also more clutch than LeBron. Both had great stats but the difference for me was in the last 3 minutes of the game, Kobe simply took over, double team-didn’t matter, he was coming for the kill, Mamba mentality. 5/7 in the finals and 5 championships. Who you guys got?

Personally I have Jordan as the GOAT followed by Kareem, Wilt & Russell, but Kobe vs Lebron makes for a great debate!

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[Terry Yake]

i'm one of the biggest kobe fans out there. he's my all time favorite athlete and i've never followed any athlete as closely throughout their careers as i did kobe. it's been 3 days now and i'm still in complete shock over the fact that he's no longer with us and i don't think i'll get over it anytime soon

but i'm putting lebron ahead of kobe on any top 10 list

 

[Neutrinos]

It could be argued LeBron has surpassed Jordan as the best player ever

Nobody is making that argument for Kobe

 

[Neutrinos]

The Black Mamba RIP. Legend.

LeBron is a great all around basketball player but he’s not at Kobe’s level. He doesn’t have the Clutch gene that MJ & Kobe had. Kobe & LeBron both had great stats but the difference was in the last 3 minutes of the game, Kobe took over, double team-didn’t matter, he was coming for the kill, Mamba mentality. 5 championships. LeBron needed Wade, Allen & Kyrie to hit the clutch shot. Kobe would finish the job, had the heart of a champion and greatness in his DNA.

Personally I have Jordan as the GOAT followed by Kareem & Wilt, but Kobe vs Lebron makes for a great debate.

 

[CBJFan19*]

Lebron was way ahead of kobe. Way way ahead.

 

[Halladay]

Rofl, not at all. Not even close. There is no case at all for this.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

LeBron is the 2nd best player of all time. And may end up 1b.

So no, he wasn't.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Better footwork. Better FT shooter. That's about it.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

LeBron is one of the best athletes ever...not just in basketball. An absolute freak of nature with very few flaws in his game.

 

[Cassano]

The argument ended after LeBron won the Championship.

 

[Live in the Now]

I don't really understand why people gotta argue about this stuff. I never have and I really never will. Both guys are in that group of the best players you will ever see play their sport. Kobe was (not gonna get used to was. f*** this) less naturally talented, made up for that by working harder than everyone to play the game. I read a story about how he read the officials handbook in order to manipulate the rules to his advantage. I don't think anyone else would do this kind of stuff.

When I was a kid playing organized basketball in school, all everyone wanted to do was to be Kobe. I wanted to be Kobe. He was the hero of a generation of basketball players.

That's what Kobe's legacy is, that he did things in order to get better that nobody else would do. And he wasn't better than LeBron, but we don't need to argue about that. Kobe was the MJ of this generation, the guy that everyone growing up wanted to reach the level of and to play against, and that says all that needs to be said. He was the best player in his prime in a defense-first league, in his own era. Nobody in his era won more than him or did more than him. Then LeBron's era came, and he showed that players can do even more than score and play defense.

 

[tony d]

Kobe had a great career. For many years it was him vs. Lebron for the best player in the game. That said all time Lebron is better than Kobe was.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Gimme Kobe in the playoffs and Lebron during the regular season.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Nah

 

[Neutrinos]

Gimme Kobe in the playoffs and Lebron during the regular season.

Statistically, LeBron is clearly superior to Kobe in the playoffs


From the age of 21 - 33, here are their playoff stats:

Kobe in 170 games:
28 PPG, .45 FG%, 5.5 rebounds, 5 assists, 1.5 steals, 3 turnovers

LeBron in 239 games:
29 PPG, .49 FG%, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, 1.8 steals, 3.5 turnovers


From the age of 21 - 33, here are their advanced playoff stats:

Kobe in 170 games:
23 PER, 54 TS%, Win Share 27.5, Box Plus/Minus 4.8, Victory Over Replacement Player 13.7

LeBron in 239 games:
28.3 PER, 58 TS%. Win Share 51, Box Plus/Minus 11.1, Victory Over Replacement Player 33.1

 

[Hammettf2b]

Statistically, LeBron is clearly superior to Kobe in the playoffs


From the age of 21 - 33, here are their playoff stats:

Kobe in 170 games:
28 PPG, .45 FG%, 5.5 rebounds, 5 assists, 1.5 steals, 3 turnovers

LeBron in 239 games:
29 PPG, .49 FG%, 9 rebounds, 7 assists, 1.8 steals, 3.5 turnovers


From the age of 21 - 33, here are their advanced playoff stats:

Kobe in 170 games:
23 PER, 54 TS%, Win Share 27.5, Box Plus/Minus 4.8, Victory Over Replacement Player 13.7

LeBron in 239 games:
28.3 PER, 58 TS%. Win Share 51, Box Plus/Minus 11.1, Victory Over Replacement Player 33.1

Ya, I'm not denying any numbers. It comes down to feeling in my case. I personally would want Kobe leading my team in the playoffs over Lebron. Not saying Kobe is better in the playoffs over Lebron or visa versa, just a personal feeling about certain players. In this case, I like Kobe's drive over Lebrons.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

 

[Hammettf2b]

View attachment 314107

I think the updated numbers are Kobe with 25 and Lebron with 15. Also, only 4 teams ever had to face 4 50 win teams in 1 playoff run and Kobe was on 3 of them.

 

[Neutrinos]

View attachment 314107

How many 70+ win teams did Kobe beat in the playoffs?

 

[82Ninety42011]

It could be argued LeBron has surpassed Jordan as the best player ever

Nobody is making that argument for Kobe

You can argue all you want Jordan is way ahead of Lebron. Lebron =Kobe sure Kobe better scorer Lebron better all around player. Jordan played in era where players were mobbed with no foul and made plays with players hanging off him. Lebron is nowhere near Jordan for me. Lebron had a cake walk to finals playing in east and made it sure 9 times also lost it 6 times?? Lebron when up against a good western teams failed and the 2 wins with Heat he didn't do it alone. The one with Cleveland yes he was the man for sure but Jordan would have had 8 straight championships if didn't retire for the 2 seasons. Jordan also played against much better teams but that's subjective.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Kobe was less talented. Vs 50 win teams:

Jordan 20-7
Kobe 25-10
Lebron 11-6

 

[Neutrinos]

You can argue all you want Jordan is way ahead of Lebron. Lebron =Kobe sure Kobe better scorer Lebron better all around player. Jordan played in era where players were mobbed with no foul and made plays with players hanging off him. Lebron is nowhere near Jordan for me. Lebron had a cake walk to finals playing in east and made it sure 9 times also lost it 6 times?? Lebron when up against a good western teams failed and the 2 wins with Heat he didn't do it alone. The one with Cleveland yes he was the man for sure but Jordan would have had 8 straight championships if didn't retire for the 2 seasons. Jordan also played against much better teams but that's subjective.

Team accomplishments have no place in a discussion comparing individual players

The only thing that's relevant is how the player performed

 

[Maestro84]

LeBron is clearly superior but that doesn't take away any of Kobe's achievements and what he meant to the game

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

You can argue all you want Jordan is way ahead of Lebron. Lebron =Kobe sure Kobe better scorer Lebron better all around player. Jordan played in era where players were mobbed with no foul and made plays with players hanging off him. Lebron is nowhere near Jordan for me. Lebron had a cake walk to finals playing in east and made it sure 9 times also lost it 6 times?? Lebron when up against a good western teams failed and the 2 wins with Heat he didn't do it alone. The one with Cleveland yes he was the man for sure but Jordan would have had 8 straight championships if didn't retire for the 2 seasons. Jordan also played against much better teams but that's subjective.

Jordan shouldn’t even be mentioned in this thread, he’s so far ahead of LeBron it’s insulting to his greatness. MJ was the most talented and gifted player to ever play the game, the Best Ever & the undisputed GOAT. Kareem, Wilt & Russell are still clearly ahead of LeBron on the the goat list. Kobe vs LeBron is at least a close comparison.

 

[FiveTacos]

LeBron is clearly superior but that doesn't take away any of Kobe's achievements and what he meant to the game

I'm not sure "clearly superior" is right, because are we talking peak value, overall longevity, etc.?

The thing with Lebron is, once he put it all together he probably does have it over Kobe. But it took him a while to get that "killer instinct" aspect to his game. Guys like Bird, Magic, MJ, etc. were pretty much stone cold assassins right out of the gate, and Kobe was pretty much the best clutch player in the league by the time he was 21. Lebron had to learn it.

In recent years, Lebron has essentially become an MJ-Magic hybrid, and it's pretty amazing (though I'd probably still take peak MJ). But while I'd easily take a 29+ year old Lebron over a 29+ year old Kobe, I'd take a 21-26 year old Kobe over 21-26 year old Lebron and it's really not close. As great as LBJ has been, Kobe had "it" a lot sooner than Lebron did. Kobe's years of superior clutchness may not outweigh Lebron's overall sustained dominance, but it's not a no-brainer either.

IMO, Shaq may have won a bunch of Finals MVPs, but Kobe was more often than not the difference in the key series that got the Lakers to the Finals in the first place. Frankly, if the playoff MVP award had gone to the best player in the "real Finals" from '00 through '02 (vs. Portland, SA, or Sac), Kobe probably wins all 3. You just kind of knew that if it was a close game, the Lakers were most likely going to win, and that wasn't because of Shaq.

Everyone talks about the Indiana OT game where Kobe took over on a bum ankle with Shaq fouled out, but that game never even gets played if Kobe doesn't have an all-around performance for the ages in game 7 against Portland (25 pts, 11 reb, 7 ast, 4 blk) ... a game in which Shaq was completely invisible, and it was Kobe who brought the Lakers back from oblivion (and saved Shaq from yet another year of being labeled the league's biggest choker). And he did that as a 21 year old kid. Lebron wouldn't turn in a performance like that under such immense pressure until he was significantly older.