Vote: How do you feel about how the Blues handled Petro?

[ChicagoBlues]

I initially was thinking that Alex should have backed away from some of his demands. But then I started reflecting on all of the teammates he has watched get shipped out over the years.

Chronologically, this includes Allen, Edmundson, Fabbri, Berglund, Sobotka, Stastny, Lehtera, Reaves, Shattenkirk, Elliott, Oshie, Cole, Polak, Stewart, Halak, Perron, Crombeen, Bishop, Boyes, Eric Johnson, Jay McClement, Eric Brewer (stopping here).

Maybe his concern for wanting full protection was justified give the Blues history.

I wonder how that compares to other teams.

I’m guessing it is about par for the course.

 

[Ranksu]

Everything what we've seen. Blues didn't want Pietro, if they would Pietro would be Bluenote. PIetro wanted to be Blues, but Blues didn't valued him as high as Pietro valued himself. Vegas value Pietro more than Blues.

You could also say that Blues are fine with not being Stanley Cup contender anymore. They are fine to break down Cup winning team. Play safe. Its imo sad to cheer for franchise which are satisfied to one cup when clearly their window is open and just like that its closed.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I wonder how that compares to other teams.

I’m guessing it is about par for the course.

Par for the course or not, it illustrates how much players get dealt by the Blues and potentially league-wide.

 

[tfriede2]

I initially was thinking that Alex should have backed away from some of his demands. But then I started reflecting on all of the teammates he has watched get shipped out over the years.

Chronologically, this includes Allen, Edmundson, Fabbri, Berglund, Sobotka, Stastny, Lehtera, Reaves, Shattenkirk, Elliott, Oshie, Cole, Polak, Stewart, Halak, Perron, Crombeen, Bishop, Boyes, Eric Johnson, Jay McClement, Eric Brewer (stopping here).

Maybe his concern for wanting full protection was justified give the Blues history.

And all of those were via trade (to my recollection), not buyout or via being sent down and then picked up on waivers, which could reinforce that the NMC isn’t that important, if we’re going to rely on recent Blues’ precedent.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I agree that he prefers ‘good’ talent all down the lineup rather than ‘star’ talent and then fill-in players. He’s been pretty open about the strategy. Boston hews toward the Armstrong approach too.

Boston has home-grown much of its roster, especially in key spots. The pieces they've got that came from elsewhere, they paid little to nothing for. Kuraly came over with San Jose's 1st for Martin Jones, who was acquired from LA with Colin Miller [who they lost to Vegas in the expansion draft] and a 1st for Milan Lucic who everyone already knew was breaking down. We have some home-grown talent, but when we've had to add someone we've paid for it with big pieces of the future.

A new thought that jumps to mind: 8x8 was too long for Pietrangelo, signing bonus was an issue, etc. but Armstrong supposedly made an exception and went beyond what he's normally willing to do. Armstrong had no problem forking over pieces 2 years ago for O'Reilly and taking on his remaining contract which had $32.5 million remaining on it but $28.5 million was in signing bonus, including $7.5 million due on July 1, 2018. Armstrong knew that payment was due, eventually decided he was willing to write that check because the upgrade to the team was worth it, and made the trade.

1. If O'Reilly was worth that $7.5 million SB + the $5 million SB he was due each of the next 4 years, what was wrong about Pietrangelo - whose accomplishments we've discussed too many times to count and who'd been part of the franchise for 10 years before O'Reilly came in - wanting a signing bonus in that range as well, or even say half of that?
2. What's going to be the negotiating position when O'Reilly's contract comes after in '22-23? If he's still producing at a pretty decent level, is Armstrong going to point to ROR's age (32) and say eh, thanks for everything but I'm not cutting you a fat check and tell him to eat a smaller contract and no signing bonus? And if he does, will ROR decide staying in St. Louis means more than collecting some signing bonus money elsewhere knowing some team will probably pay up?
3. Parayko will be 29 when his contract comes up. Barring some massive fall-off in his play and presuming he's really the 1D people think he's going to fully grow into shortly, he's going to be highly sought after if he hits the open market and will absolutely get 7 years and signing bonus money from interested teams. If Armstrong tries to play that one strong as well and only wants to go say 6 years with no signing bonus, does Parayko take it? Or, does he choose money and long-term security over some feeling of loyalty to the team that drafted him?
4. Schenn was taken out 8 years to almost 37, and there's a decent argument that for his physical style of play he'll be like Steen by 34. Why was that (going 8 years on him) still OK?

I guess it strikes me with that thought that, for the claims of Armstrong doesn't make exceptions he really does, and it's a matter of saying when that exception doesn't count and justifying why it doesn't.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

And all of those were via trade (to my recollection), not buyout or via being sent down and then picked up on waivers, which could reinforce that the NMC isn’t that important, if we’re going to rely on recent Blues’ precedent.

1. A number of those guys left with not even NTC protection because they weren't eligible for it. [Or, in the case of Berglund, he got his list in too late and Armstrong rejected it and so it no longer applied.]
2. Perron left in the expansion draft, which a NTC offered no protection for but a NMC would.
3. In the (unlikely?) event Armstrong ends up leaving and someone else takes over, they're not bound by any I give you my word guarantee that Armstrong might offer.
4. A NMC would almost certainly protect against any future draft where one team is eligible to take players from the others, or even some kind of re-allocation or (if it ever came back) waiver draft. It still wouldn't protect against buyouts, though.
5. Just because Armstrong hasn't done the waive-to-move thing doesn't mean he wouldn't in the future if the need came about.

 

[Bendak]

Cant wait GDT's when we might see some of these members hating Faulk or Krug deals, or why our defensive look bad suddenly. And if Krug + Faulk are amazing and bring Cup to Blues, hoist the Cup over their heads. I'm going to buy both Krug and Faulk jerseys.

You guys are on my list.

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You know what happens Ranksu?

You know what happens when you call out The Bendak?

When you try to flame me while giggling naked in your Finnish sauna?

Hmmm??? Do you???

When you go up against the like machine???

You know what happens?

YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS???!!!

 

[MissouriMook]

I initially was thinking that Alex should have backed away from some of his demands. But then I started reflecting on all of the teammates he has watched get shipped out over the years.

Chronologically, this includes Allen, Edmundson, Fabbri, Berglund, Sobotka, Stastny, Lehtera, Reaves, Shattenkirk, Elliott, Oshie, Cole, Polak, Stewart, Halak, Perron, Crombeen, Bishop, Boyes, Eric Johnson, Jay McClement, Eric Brewer (stopping here).

Maybe his concern for wanting full protection was justified give the Blues history.

That is 22 "teammates" (by your count) in 12 years in the organization. In that context, it doesn't seem like a lot. Several of these players were journeymen anyway, moving around quite a bit before and after their tenure here. A couple were moved to give them a better opportunity elsewhere. I think you would be hard pressed to find many people who think this franchise churns their roster more than a typical team, and the team he signed with is developing a pretty bad reputation with respect to shipping out "teammates" and they haven't even dropped the puck on their 4th season.

 

[MissouriMook]

Everything what we've seen. Blues didn't want Pietro, if they would Pietro would be Bluenote. PIetro wanted to be Blues, but Blues didn't valued him as high as Pietro valued himself. Vegas value Pietro more than Blues.

You could also say that Blues are fine with not being Stanley Cup contender anymore. They are fine to break down Cup winning team. Play safe. Its imo sad to cheer for franchise which are satisfied to one cup when clearly their window is open and just like that its closed.

The bolded is simply not true and you know it. The other side of this comment would be to say that Petro didn't want to be here or he would have taken whatever Army offered.

Can't we just say that Petro wanted certain terms the team was unwilling to give him and leave it at that? Why does everything have to be so black and white?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

You know what happens Ranksu?

You know what happens when you call out The Bendak?

When you try to flame me while giggling naked in your Finnish sauna?

Hmmm??? Do you???

When you go up against the like machine???

You know what happens?

YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS???!!!





View attachment 372918

I love you dude, hahahaha

 

[rumrokh]

When you try to flame me while giggling naked in your Finnish sauna?

I thought Ranksu was a Never Nude.

 

[MissouriMook]

And all of those were via trade (to my recollection), not buyout or via being sent down and then picked up on waivers, which could reinforce that the NMC isn’t that important, if we’re going to rely on recent Blues’ precedent.

The Blues have never bought out a player in the cap era, even when compliance buyouts were available. I'm not sure they have even buried a veteran player in the AHL (other than fringe guys like Thorburn and Brouwer, who knew what they were getting into when they signed), although my memory of the situation around Wade Redden is a little foggy. They might have sent him to the AHL until they moved him.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The Blues have never bought out a player in the cap era, even when compliance buyouts were available. I'm not sure they have even buried a veteran player in the AHL (other than fringe guys like Thorburn and Brouwer, who knew what they were getting into when they signed), although my memory of the situation around Wade Redden is a little foggy. They might have sent him to the AHL until they moved him.

The most recent buy-out I can recall was Jay McKee. I believe you are correct about AHL assignments, ignoring conditioning stints.

 

[WeWentBlues]

1. A number of those guys left with not even NTC protection because they weren't eligible for it. [Or, in the case of Berglund, he got his list in too late and Armstrong rejected it and so it no longer applied.]
2. Perron left in the expansion draft, which a NTC offered no protection for but a NMC would.
3. In the (unlikely?) event Armstrong ends up leaving and someone else takes over, they're not bound by any I give you my word guarantee that Armstrong might offer.
4. A NMC would almost certainly protect against any future draft where one team is eligible to take players from the others, or even some kind of re-allocation or (if it ever came back) waiver draft. It still wouldn't protect against buyouts, though.
5. Just because Armstrong hasn't done the waive-to-move thing doesn't mean he wouldn't in the future if the need came about.

Perron was traded to Edmonton.

 

[WeWentBlues]

That is 22 "teammates" (by your count) in 12 years in the organization. In that context, it doesn't seem like a lot. Several of these players were journeymen anyway, moving around quite a bit before and after their tenure here. A couple were moved to give them a better opportunity elsewhere. I think you would be hard pressed to find many people who think this franchise churns their roster more than a typical team, and the team he signed with is developing a pretty bad reputation with respect to shipping out "teammates" and they haven't even dropped the puck on their 4th season.

I just did a quick summary of every player traded by the Blues from 2020 through about 2010 that was here for more than a cup of coffee. Wasn't a thorough analysis by any means.

The point I was trying to make is that Petro was at least justified to request a full NTC given the organization's and probably other teams too) propensity to trade.

Prior to AP and Backes, who was the first player of any significance that we let walk in FA? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Perron was traded to Edmonton.

The first time. The second time, he was taken by Vegas in the expansion draft.

Hockey Transactions Search Results

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Prior to AP and Backes, who was the first player of any significance that we let walk in FA? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

You may have to go all the way back to Pavol Demitra. [I'm ignoring anyone who was injured - Paul Kariya and Andy McDonald stand out.] Though, to be fair, for a long time we didn't have any significant free agents because we only had a few significant players, and even they were more semi-significant for the league but significant for us because we generally had crap or really young players around them.

The Blues have never bought out a player in the cap era, even when compliance buyouts were available.

Dallas Drake, 2007. He's the only one. And then he went to Detroit and won the Cup. Jerk.

I mean, I'm happy for him that he got to play for a Cup-winning team and has his name on the Cup, but still ... Detroit.

I'm not sure they have even buried a veteran player in the AHL (other than fringe guys like Thorburn and Brouwer, who knew what they were getting into when they signed), although my memory of the situation around Wade Redden is a little foggy. They might have sent him to the AHL until they moved him.

Redden was here the whole time. If you go way back to the first year of the cap era, Lalime got shipped down when he was shitting the bed. Otherwise, no one else immediately jumps out.

 

[WeWentBlues]

The first time. The second time, he was taken by Vegas in the expansion draft.

Hockey Transactions Search Results

Yes but I stated here are trades in chronological order. You quoted me and said he was taken in the expansion draft. I was discussing players traded and specifically Perron being traded to Edmonton

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Yes but I stated here are trades in chronological order. You quoted me and said he was taken in the expansion draft. I was discussing players traded and specifically Perron being traded to Edmonton

Actually, your comment was [the important piece of it as pertains to this discussion in bold]:

I initially was thinking that Alex should have backed away from some of his demands. But then I started reflecting on all of the teammates he has watched get shipped out over the years.

Chronologically, this includes Allen, Edmundson, Fabbri, Berglund, Sobotka, Stastny, Lehtera, Reaves, Shattenkirk, Elliott, Oshie, Cole, Polak, Stewart, Halak, Perron, Crombeen, Bishop, Boyes, Eric Johnson, Jay McClement, Eric Brewer (stopping here).

Maybe his concern for wanting full protection was justified give the Blues history.

"Get shipped out" does not exclusively mean "only traded" - even if you intended that to be the case - because, as I'm pointing out, Perron was "shipped out" by both trade and expansion draft claim. If you want to restrict that now to just guys who were traded, fine - but understand that in making that clarification, you're making the argument for why Pietrangelo would want a NTC, which (1) isn't what he wanted, and (2) even if Perron would have had in full [he had a 3-team no list] wouldn't have prevented him from being exposed in the expansion draft and taken by Vegas.

 

[Mike Liut]

“We are going to rally around Krug and Faulk and we are going to play good hockey with them.”

 

[BlueKnight]

“We are going to rally around Krug and Faulk and we are going to play good hockey with them.”

Nope sorry not me. I'm going to treat Faulk and Krug like Eric Brewer. They both costed us our best defenceman. Sorry not sorry.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

View attachment 372918

Bring the ultimate punishment.

Spoiler

Don't like any of his posts in any GDTs in the '20-21 season.

 

[Xerloris]

I initially was thinking that Alex should have backed away from some of his demands. But then I started reflecting on all of the teammates he has watched get shipped out over the years.

Chronologically, this includes Allen, Edmundson, Fabbri, Berglund, Sobotka, Stastny, Lehtera, Reaves, Shattenkirk, Elliott, Oshie, Cole, Polak, Stewart, Halak, Perron, Crombeen, Bishop, Boyes, Eric Johnson, Jay McClement, Eric Brewer (stopping here).

Maybe his concern for wanting full protection was justified give the Blues history.

Cole and Fabbri both requested trades.
Stastny waived his NTC.
Shattenkirk was not going to resign and waived his NTC.
Bishop was never a part of the team.

 

[simon IC]

“We are going to rally around Krug and Faulk and we are going to play good hockey with them.”

I am not sure where you got that quotation from, but if it is DA, it is just hype. In fact, it is cheerleading. I would say they will play entertaining hockey. Whether or not it is good is subjective. Again, they might play entertaining hockey. I doubt it will be successful hockey, especially in terms of the playoffs.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Nope sorry not me. I'm going to treat Faulk and Krug like Eric Brewer. They both costed us our best defenceman. Sorry not sorry.

Even if you feel like those moves cost Pietro, it’s Armstrong who did it, not Faulk or Krug. You’re going to boo them like Brewer? Ugh.