Voracek & #8 rather than JJ?

[EspenK]

So Jake gets his first hat trick last night including the game winner. Courtier is a solid center who is only going to get better. Johnson is appreciated by most here as our best D-man. With apologies to those who will say why bring this up, it is a non-issue, given the sorry state of our forwards would you have made the trade directly for JJ in retrospect?

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[TaketheCannoli]

water under the bridge


As much as I like Voracek and Couturier, neither one is the cure for this team's problems.Voracek is a playmaker not a finisher and Couturier is a potential strong shut down 3rd line center.
JMFJ is the closest to what was needed after a #1 goaltender, and defensemen are the most difficult to acquire and long to develop.

Now about that 3rd round pick...

 

[JACKETfan]

Last night's Flyer-Pen game was the best and wildest hockey game I've seen all season. Voracek was everywhere. But I also saw him in person take the night off v. Tampa last month. So...

 

[InjuredChoker]

water under the bridge


As much as I like Voracek and Couturier, neither one is the cure for this team's problems.Voracek is a playmaker not a finisher and Couturier is a potential strong shut down 3rd line center.
JMFJ is the closest to what was needed after a #1 goaltender, and defensemen are the most difficult to acquire and long to develop.

Now about that 3rd round pick...

Couturier has potential to be more than that.

Columbus may not have picked Couturier either, Brodin and Hamilton were on the table too. Though I doubt they were after Brodin.

 

[Viqsi]

I'd prefer to have all three.

 

[Skraut]

would you have made the trade directly for JJ in retrospect?

In retrospect I would have made dramatically different career choices, but all I can do now is make the best of the decisions I have made and go forward.

Seems to be the same situation with this question as well.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

why bring this up, it is a non-issue,

I couldn't agree with you more, here, EK.

 

[Nanabijou]

I prefer to just ignore the Carter part of the Voracek trade.

If I was offered Jack Johnson for Voracek plus a 3rd in 2011, along with flipping first round picks with LA (our 2011 for their 2013) - I would have jumped for that. Johnson was a much better known commodity than Jake at that point. Who knows how the swapping of firsts will turn out?

I do find it weird that Howson banked on Brassard and Mason over Voracek. He rushed to re-sign the former two before they even hit their last year of RFA, while he let Jake twist in the wind until his RFA year was up. I'd take Jake over either Brassard or Mason in a heartbeat in 2011 or now.

 

[1857 Howitzer]

Title should be "Voracek & #8 rather than JJ & LA's 1st"

 

[Roadman]

Title should be "Voracek & #8 rather than JJ & LA's 1st"

This...

Let's see what the last piece to the puzzle is.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This...

Let's see what the last piece to the puzzle is.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1347219&highlight=

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Let's not forget that Jaromir Jagr is who taught Voracek how to be a pro athlete last season. Voracek's only claim to fame before the trade was being Mike Commodore's party buddy.

Voracek would not be playing the way he is not if he were still in Columbus.

 

[Doug19]

I'd still probably do the trade. Jake is my favorite player to ever but on union blue, but Johnson filled a huge need and is on a great contract. I think we are probably better off with Johnson and LA's first this year than Voracek 2011 1st and 3rd. Voracek is in a much more demanding and competitive environment, I think he will grow into a much better player in Philly than he would in Columbus.

 

[Robert]

THe Flyers are not exactly tearing up the league and Courtier is still young....

No

 

[IBleedUnionBlue]

The CBJ also drafted Legein and Weber that year in the 2nd round all before Simmonds was picked by LA. But you can't do anything about the past. There is new leadership in COlumbus, it will just take a couple years to right this franchise.

 

[KeithBWhittington]

We have no idea of several things regarding this:

If Voracek would have done a bit of an "about face" here (rumors he was "living it up" with Brass and Commodore) and rededicated himself to his craft and taken a leadership position within the club.

If Couturier would have still been at 8 if we kept the pick.

And maybe the most unsure thing of the all of them:

What would Couturier have been had we drafted him? I'm not sure he comes in to Columbus and that mess is any better for him or for the team. He's likely sent back to junior before the season even starts. We can talk about "Look who was drafted after we picked so and so" but we really don't know how things would have fallen if we did.

 

[Nordique]

If my Aunt had a ....

Its hard to evaluate this situation in today's terms. I guess my personal thoughts are...

The Voracek/1st round trade for Carter was bad, simply because Carter was a bum that wanted nothing to do with Columbus.

The Carter for JJ/1st round trade was good, as it brought us a top pairing dman with a great attitude, and a 1st round pick in a deep draft.

 

[KeithBWhittington]

If my Aunt had a ....

Its hard to evaluate this situation in today's terms. I guess my personal thoughts are...

The Voracek/1st round trade for Carter was bad, simply because Carter was a bum that wanted nothing to do with Columbus.

The Carter for JJ/1st round trade was good, as it brought us a top pairing dman with a great attitude, and a 1st round pick in a deep draft.

The whole situation screams "two steps forward and two steps back".

 

[Nordique]

The whole situation screams "two steps forward and two steps back".

I agree, and honestly I think thats the way the game goes somtimes. Howson did a fine job recovering from the Carter move, I just wish he had not gotten us into that jam in the first place. I liked Voracek, I think generally speaking this whole fan base liked him. JJ has had a rough start, but I'm very happy to have him here.

The real kicker is LA's 1st round pick. I'd like to think they'll be starting threads like this on the Kings board is a couple seasons, bemoaning the loss of JJ and some young scoring machine that we snagged with their pick.

 

[Hello Johnny]

I think if LA's pick is within 5 spots of where Philly got Couturier we'll get an equal or better player. JJ and Voracek are about a wash for me. It really depends on what the final return is.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I've yet to be convinced that Couturier will be more than a prime Manny Malhotra was. Both were in the NHL at 18 on a good team, both immediately stepped in as excellent defensive forwards, and both teams hoped that their offensive game would eventually come around. If it did, that was a bonus, and if not, that was fine too.

If that's what Couturier's career peak actually ends up being, which is a guy who'll hit 20 goals a couple times and top out at 40 points, to what extent does that change the discussion? He's more hyped right now for three reasons:
1) He's young
2) He plays tough minutes (PK included) on a good team
3) There's a massive tendency to overhype such players

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Can we wait 3-4 years when we see who we pick and how peoples career turns out?

 

[Hockeypete49]

Flyers fan here and I come in peace. I just want to say I hope that the deal works out for both parties. Vorcek, Couturier and do not forget Nick Cousins, have worked out well for us. Sean is a kid who is still growing into his game and has tremendous potenial. Jake playing with Giroux has been nothing but lights out for us. Man can he skate and play the body. And Nick has a NHL future. I alway liked Jeff Carter but I cannot explain as to why it did not work out for you guys. But now you have a solid number 1 defensemen in JJ so good luck and I hope that the GM change will help you guys. Take Care and Good Luck

 

[tdfast]

Are either of these guys top line players? Maybe top six but I don't think they form a top 10 2nd line in the league. JJ has his problems but some things went wrong in between there to make it a Voracek and Couturier for JJ deal.

 

[major major]

Are either of these guys top line players? Maybe top six but I don't think they form a top 10 2nd line in the league. JJ has his problems but some things went wrong in between there to make it a Voracek and Couturier for JJ deal.

If Voracek keeps up his play of this year he is a top line winger.

Couturier was unexpectedly available at #8. He fell, if I remember correctly, because of concerns about his creativity and vision, but I think he has the tools to score, maybe even on a top line level. If that happens, then combined with his shutdown play that would make him the most valuable player involved in this set of deals. But he was never a Jacket pick, so its not like we "lost him".

I like JJ on the Jackets, but I don't know if he is that much of an asset.

These are just my musings on the value of the players, but I don't care about reassessing the deals, a lot happened in between, Couturier was never a Jacket, etc..