Vlasic's scoring

[WantonAbandon]

But that's not offense, that's defense. Even with all his faults, old Boyle >> Vlasic offensively.

Of course it is offense. Teams go on the forecheck when they don't have the puck and are the ones playing defense. Vlasic maintains possession and breaks through the defense.

Players who can "control a game" typically do it by controlling all three zones of the ice.

Vlasic can do it in all three zones. What he does have trouble with is getting the handle on a hard pass to the point.


Another thing I read, regarding LA: The Kings didn't really play in the playoffs like they did in the regular seasons. Sutter rolled his lines during the regular season and focused heavily on matchups during the playoffs. Also what helped the Kings offense was the Gabo trade and the emergence of Toffoli. Without those two, I don't think they would have gotten past the first round.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Of course it is offense. Teams go on the forecheck when they don't have the puck and are the ones playing defense. Vlasic maintains possession and breaks through the defense.


Vlasic can do it in all three zones. What he does have trouble with is getting the handle on a hard pass to the point.

Vlasic doesn't have the hockey sense. He doesn't have the skating. He doesn't have the shot. He simply does not have the offensive instincts.

Another thing I read, regarding LA: The Kings didn't really play in the playoffs like they did in the regular seasons. Sutter rolled his lines during the regular season and focused heavily on matchups during the playoffs. Also what helped the Kings offense was the Gabo trade and the emergence of Toffoli. Without those two, I don't think they would have gotten past the first round.

Point being?

 

[hohosaregood]

If only Vlasic would put up 45-50 points a season with some consistency, he'd be a lock for the HOF.

He'll start doing that next year.

 

[Linkster]

He'll start doing that next year.

If DW threatens Vlasic with the NTC, he could win the Norris.

It's like magic.

 

[do0glas]

I'm laughing at this thread simply because the lengths we can go to convince ourselves we have a #1 D. Vlasic is simple and safe personified. His shot is just okay and his ability to jump in the play is really good, but he doesn't do it as often as he should. He can't break his team out on his own and he can't qb a PP.

Hopefully he and burns create a really dynamic pair but I think we need to accept vlasics offensive limitations.

 

[hockeyball]

Vlasic doesn't have the hockey sense. He doesn't have the skating. He doesn't have the shot. He simply does not have the offensive instincts.




Point being?

You realize Vlasic is one of the fastest skaters on the team right? He's developed elite level speed in recent years. He won last years fastest skater for the defensive group.

And to say Vlasic doesn't have hockey sense... rofl

 

[hockeyball]

I'm laughing at this thread simply because the lengths we can go to convince ourselves we have a #1 D. Vlasic is simple and safe personified. His shot is just okay and his ability to jump in the play is really good, but he doesn't do it as often as he should. He can't break his team out on his own and he can't qb a PP.

Hopefully he and burns create a really dynamic pair but I think we need to accept vlasics offensive limitations.

Vlasic is an elite #2, and he's only not a true #1 because he doesn't have a great shot. If Vlasic had a bomb from the point, he'd be a clear cut #1, and a Norris candidate. He's that close to being an elite #1.

 

[sr228]

I'm laughing at this thread simply because the lengths we can go to convince ourselves we have a #1 D. Vlasic is simple and safe personified. His shot is just okay and his ability to jump in the play is really good, but he doesn't do it as often as he should. He can't break his team out on his own and he can't qb a PP.

Hopefully he and burns create a really dynamic pair but I think we need to accept vlasics offensive limitations.

There are different ways to break out of the d-zone and Vlasic is very, very good at it.

And no, he won't be a PPQB.

The difference between Doughty and Vlasic is pucks skills, and offensive instincts. Doughty's are elite, Vlasics aren't though his instincts in the o-zone improved a lot last last season.

 

[boredatwork]

Not 5vs5 he's not.

Moving the puck up ice is offense, Vlasic does that better now than Boyle. 5vs5 Vlasic is actually one of the best at moving the puck up the ice in the league.

Vlasic is productive because he gets the puck up the ice and on net faster than the opposing D can set up. It's not flashy, but it is very effective and players who can do that produce offense more consistently. It's exactly why Boyle is struggling so bad now, he can't move the puck anymore so by the time he gets to the offensive zone the D is setup and he has a much harder job.

Given the situation where the D is setup which player is more likely to score? Boyle. Which is basically what your getting at. That's why good teams can shut us down though, if we wait till they setup, we are basically punching a brick wall.

This is why I think that the Sharks D is going to surprise a lot of people this year. Everyone moves the puck well or skates it out of trouble. Hannah paired with a PMD is great as 6/7. The Sharks finally have a D corps built for the new NHL.

 

[do0glas]

There are different ways to break out of the d-zone and Vlasic is very, very good at it.

And no, he won't be a PPQB.

The difference between Doughty and Vlasic is pucks skills, and offensive instincts. Doughty's are elite, Vlasics aren't though his instincts in the o-zone improved a lot last last season.

But an indication of that elite ability is being able to split the D and skate it out yourself. Doughty and Keith can both do it, vlasic either can't or won't. But if you have the skill but it's not in your nature it's the same difference.

He doesn't have the handles or close in skating along the blue line to make plays. His main offensive tool is to jump in during the play, but that's dependabt on others creating a situation for him to take advantage of. A guy like subban or Keith or even doughty will have plays start with them and others are able to take advantage.

Voynov scored more than vlasic at ES btw. Is he better than vlasic?

 

[sr228]

But an indication of that elite ability is being able to split the D and skate it out yourself. Doughty and Keith can both do it, vlasic either can't or won't. But if you have the skill but it's not in your nature it's the same difference.

He doesn't have the handles or close in skating along the blue line to make plays. His main offensive tool is to jump in during the play, but that's dependabt on others creating a situation for him to take advantage of. A guy like subban or Keith or even doughty will have plays start with them and others are able to take advantage.

Voynov scored more than vlasic at ES btw. Is he better than vlasic?

You can choose to cherry pick how a d-man breaks out of the zone if you want to. Vlasic is more then capable of carrying the puck out of the zone and up the ice but it hasn't been in his 'nature' up until this past season. He was often the puck carrier when he was paired with Braun, not so much when he was paired with Demers.

Was there something confusing about me saying Doughty is better then Vlasic in the offensive zone? Vlasic isn't on Doughty's level and I never said he was nor did I say that ES scoring means anything.

 

[one2gamble]

Vlasic is an elite #2, and he's only not a true #1 because he doesn't have a great shot. If Vlasic had a bomb from the point, he'd be a clear cut #1, and a Norris candidate. He's that close to being an elite #1.

I dont know if his puck skills are there either but in his own end, he is one of the best at control the play. He just does it in such a clinical nature its a bit harder to appreciate over say someone more physical or flashy with his skates.

 

[do0glas]

You can choose to cherry pick how a d-man breaks out of the zone if you want to. Vlasic is more then capable of carrying the puck out of the zone and up the ice but it hasn't been in his 'nature' up until this past season. He was often the puck carrier when he was paired with Braun, not so much when he was paired with Demers.

Was there something confusing about me saying Doughty is better then Vlasic in the offensive zone? Vlasic isn't on Doughty's level and I never said he was nor did I say that ES scoring means anything.

This whole thread started with inferring vlasic is on doughtys level offensively.

We can try to justify how vlasics rushes or breakout passes have the same effect offensively as doughty but it's pointless IMO. Vlasic just isn't that good offensively. He's not bad though and that's why he'd be the best #2 in the league if we had someone like doughty next to him.

Maybe burns can replicate a bit and they could form the best 5v5 pairing in the league.

I just see this discussion pop up all the time and I would give up vlasic for doughty subban Keith hedman and I'd seriously think about pietrangelo. There are others like mcdonagh OEL and yes even niskanen that I would watch closely and consider a decent trade offer.

If you would do the same this conversation is moot.

 

[sr228]

This whole thread started with inferring vlasic is on doughtys level offensively.

We can try to justify how vlasics rushes or breakout passes have the same effect offensively as doughty but it's pointless IMO. Vlasic just isn't that good offensively. He's not bad though and that's why he'd be the best #2 in the league if we had someone like doughty next to him.

Maybe burns can replicate a bit and they could form the best 5v5 pairing in the league.

I just see this discussion pop up all the time and I would give up vlasic for doughty subban Keith hedman and I'd seriously think about pietrangelo. There are others like mcdonagh OEL and yes even niskanen that I would watch closely and consider a decent trade offer.

If you would do the same this conversation is moot.

Vlasic was probably the best #2 with Demers next to him.

No one thinks Vlasic is the best d-man in the league.

 

[Mattb124]

Vlasic doesn't have the hockey sense. He doesn't have the skating. He doesn't have the shot. He simply does not have the offensive instincts.

You should have led with the offensive instincts part.

Vlasic's point production primarily comes 5v5 because he makes a quality outlet pass (hockey sense) and is an excellent skater so he can join the rush.

 

[Mattb124]

voynov scored more than vlasic at es btw. Is he better than vlasic?

21<21?

 

[do0glas]

Vlasic was probably the best #2 with Demers next to him.

No one thinks Vlasic is the best d-man in the league.

I could make solid cases for seabrook, spurgeon, and to lesser extents markov, Morris, Josi and bouwmeester

Granted there are arguments that would go both ways and it would be back and forth, the point is it's not clear cut. When vlasic gets a full season with someone like burns it may be though. Hard to say at this point.

@mattb, I'm using stats.hockeyanalysis and focusing primarily on 5v5. Regular ES could include 6v5 I think. Voynov had 19 5v5 and vlasic had 18.

 

[Mattb124]

I could make solid cases for seabrook, spurgeon, and to lesser extents markov, Morris, Josi and bouwmeester

Granted there are arguments that would go both ways and it would be back and forth, the point is it's not clear cut. When vlasic gets a full season with someone like burns it may be though. Hard to say at this point.

@mattb, I'm using stats.hockeyanalysis and focusing primarily on 5v5. Regular ES could include 6v5 I think. Voynov had 19 5v5 and vlasic had 18.

NHL stats show 21 ES pts. for each, which was my source. That splits out ES, PP and SH pts, not sure what it does with empty net situations. The funny thing about Vlasic is it reflects only 1 PP pt but 2 SH points - there are not many players who show more offfensive prowess on the PK than the PP.

 

[OrrNumber4]

You realize Vlasic is one of the fastest skaters on the team right? He's developed elite level speed in recent years. He won last years fastest skater for the defensive group.

And to say Vlasic doesn't have hockey sense... rofl

You should have led with the offensive instincts part.

Vlasic's point production primarily comes 5v5 because he makes a quality outlet pass (hockey sense) and is an excellent skater so he can join the rush.

I am not comparing Vlasic to John Scott. I am comparing him to the Doughtys, Subbans, and Karlssons of the league.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I could make solid cases for seabrook, spurgeon, and to lesser extents markov, Morris, Josi and bouwmeester

Granted there are arguments that would go both ways and it would be back and forth, the point is it's not clear cut. When vlasic gets a full season with someone like burns it may be though. Hard to say at this point.

@mattb, I'm using stats.hockeyanalysis and focusing primarily on 5v5. Regular ES could include 6v5 I think. Voynov had 19 5v5 and vlasic had 18.

NHL stats show 21 ES pts. for each, which was my source. That splits out ES, PP and SH pts, not sure what it does with empty net situations. The funny thing about Vlasic is it reflects only 1 PP pt but 2 SH points - there are not many players who show more offfensive prowess on the PK than the PP.

The discrepancy is probably within 4 on 4 situations.

 

[Mayo8898]

This whole thread started with inferring vlasic is on doughtys level offensively.

I made this thread to show that Vlasic has offensive capabilities (though limited). I just felt that some people under appreciate that facet of his game and unjustly brand him as a "defensive d-man". 30 points per season is pretty good for a defensive d-man IMO

 

[SJeasy]

Srox,
Thanks for noting the differences with different Vlasic partners. I did watch his puck rushing this past season. On a few events, he was fast and he could elude quite well. I was pleased.

IMO, Vlasic doesn't have the offensive vision and shot that the top offensive guys do. He still plays a bit too safe on breakouts but he is no longer uniformly going up the boards to the neutral zone with no recipient in mind. That used to drive me nuts as it was passing defensive responsibility to the next shift/dpair. Good for one's own +/-, but not so good for the team.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Vlasic doesn't have the hockey sense. He doesn't have the skating. He doesn't have the shot. He simply does not have the offensive instincts.




Point being?

Skating... You vastly under rate Vlasic as at the very least he is the second best skater on the team.

On another note. His shot has gotten a lot better and he has been willing to join the rush lately.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://kuklaskorner.com/psh/comments/marc-edouard-vlasics-puck-possession

KK's pundit on Vlasic ranked as #2 in Corsi (in league)

 

[magic school bus]

http://kuklaskorner.com/psh/comments/marc-edouard-vlasics-puck-possession

KK's pundit on Vlasic ranked as #2 in Corsi (in league)

I'm sorry, but did he even watch the Olympics?

Vlasic was more of a depth defenceman in the Olympics, but given the depth of players available to Canada this is impressive.