Vlasic's scoring

Mayo8898 · Jul 17, 2014

So I'm new to hockey future's board (please don't bash me :shakehead

) but i saw this comment on a fearthefin article and it put a huge smile on my face (but I'm not sure if it's true), and seeing how sad other sharks fans on this board seem to be (totally justifiable), I guess I thought I should share it. So basically, the guy said that Vlasic not only had more points than Doughty, but had more ES-points than him :yo:

. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks :handclap:

sr228 · Jul 17, 2014

Vlasic had more even strength points and ES P/60 then Doughty, yes.

He didn't have more points though.

WantonAbandon · Jul 17, 2014

Essentially Vlasic, at the very least is as good as Doughty 5V5.

Vlasic is not as good as Doughty 5v4, however...

If the Sharks decided to speed up their power play, Vlasic could play a critical role there as well.

OrrNumber4 · Jul 17, 2014

Doughty can also take over a game like few others can. That is something Vlasic is missing.

At his best, Vlasic is a great complementary defenseman. At his best, Doughty is a franchise-caliber defenseman.

WantonAbandon · Jul 17, 2014

OrrNumber4 said:
Doughty can also take over a game like few others can. That is something Vlasic is missing.

At his best, Vlasic is a great complementary defenseman. At his best, Doughty is a franchise-caliber defenseman.

I think the only thing that separates them at this point is the PP.

hockeyball · Jul 17, 2014

WantonAbandon said:
I think the only thing that separates them at this point is the PP.

Vlasic can absolutely control a game. He's one of the best defensemen int he league, that's a pretty common belief among the hockey world at this point. You don't get to be one of the best d-men in the sport and NOT be able to control a game.

I'd put it like this: (1-5, 5 being best)

Doughty:
Defensively = 4
5vs5 = 4
Powerplay = 5

Vlasic:
Defensively = 5
5vs5 = 4
Powerplay = 3

Hold the Pickles · Jul 17, 2014

heh, and here I thought "Vlasic Scoring" was an oxymoron

hohosaregood · Jul 17, 2014

He could probably do end to end rushes if he really tried.

Gene Parmesan · Jul 17, 2014

Vlasic can control a game because he can essentially neutralize one side of the ice with his skating, positioning and stick work. He's just getting recognition due to his performance at the Olympics.

Mattb124 · Jul 18, 2014

Vlasic basically gets no PP time. Not saying he would have the same scoring as Doughty if he did, but they would be a lot closer. With Boyle gone, we may see some degree of this.

magic school bus · Jul 18, 2014

Vlasic is a terrible offensive player. This one does not pass the eye test

WantonAbandon · Jul 18, 2014

magic school bus said:
Vlasic is a terrible offensive player. This one does not pass the eye test

The rush/counter attack typically starts with Vlasic

magic school bus · Jul 18, 2014

WantonAbandon said:
The rush/counter attack typically starts with Vlasic

A lot of people can pass. That doesn't make him a good offensive player

WantonAbandon · Jul 18, 2014

magic school bus said:
A lot of people can pass. That doesn't make him a good offensive player

Not a lot of players can neutralize a forecheck and start the attack like he can. Boyle couldn't do it...

magic school bus · Jul 18, 2014

WantonAbandon said:
Not a lot of players can neutralize a forecheck and start the attack like he can. Boyle couldn't do it...

But that's not offense, that's defense. Even with all his faults, old Boyle >> Vlasic offensively.

hockeyball · Jul 18, 2014

magic school bus said:
But that's not offense, that's defense. Even with all his faults, old Boyle >> Vlasic offensively.

Not 5vs5 he's not.

Moving the puck up ice is offense, Vlasic does that better now than Boyle. 5vs5 Vlasic is actually one of the best at moving the puck up the ice in the league.

Vlasic is productive because he gets the puck up the ice and on net faster than the opposing D can set up. It's not flashy, but it is very effective and players who can do that produce offense more consistently. It's exactly why Boyle is struggling so bad now, he can't move the puck anymore so by the time he gets to the offensive zone the D is setup and he has a much harder job.

Given the situation where the D is setup which player is more likely to score? Boyle. Which is basically what your getting at. That's why good teams can shut us down though, if we wait till they setup, we are basically punching a brick wall.

OrrNumber4 · Jul 18, 2014

Gene Parmesan said:
Vlasic can control a game because he can essentially neutralize one side of the ice with his skating, positioning and stick work. He's just getting recognition due to his performance at the Olympics.

Players who can "control a game" typically do it by controlling all three zones of the ice.

Linkster · Jul 18, 2014

In TMac's system, I think offense starts with the breakout pass.

In terms of current Sharks D, I think Vlasic does it best followed by Braun. Burns needs a lot of work this season to beat Braun.

hohosaregood · Jul 18, 2014

Remember when Vlasic sucked at breakouts? That was only like 2 years ago.

magic school bus · Jul 18, 2014

hockeyball said:
Not 5vs5 he's not.

Moving the puck up ice is offense, Vlasic does that better now than Boyle. 5vs5 Vlasic is actually one of the best at moving the puck up the ice in the league.

Vlasic is productive because he gets the puck up the ice and on net faster than the opposing D can set up. It's not flashy, but it is very effective and players who can do that produce offense more consistently. It's exactly why Boyle is struggling so bad now, he can't move the puck anymore so by the time he gets to the offensive zone the D is setup and he has a much harder job.

Given the situation where the D is setup which player is more likely to score? Boyle. Which is basically what your getting at. That's why good teams can shut us down though, if we wait till they setup, we are basically punching a brick wall.

Vlasic's offensive stats look good because he's so good at defense that the puck's in the offensive zone more often than not, which allows the actually talented offensive players on this team to put up points (boosting his 5on5 rates). He's not actually driving any of the play inside the offensive zone, he's just there.

do0glas · Jul 18, 2014

ES scoring comparisons are fine but LA vs. SJ at ES changes things IMO. LA was one of the lowest and SJ one of the highest, and yet vlasic only put up 5 more points at ES.

Doesn't mean anything. Vlasic doesn't control games offensively. Doughty does.

magic school bus · Jul 18, 2014

do0glas said:
ES scoring comparisons are fine but LA vs. SJ at ES changes things IMO. LA was one of the lowest and SJ one of the highest, and yet vlasic only put up 5 more points at ES.

Doesn't mean anything. Vlasic doesn't control games offensively. Doughty does.

And isn't LA notoriously unlucky offensively (during the regular season)?

do0glas · Jul 18, 2014

magic school bus said:
And isn't LA notoriously unlucky offensively (during the regular season)?

Yep. Almost lowest sh% in the league.

At first glance we may be tempted to just say they weren't good at shooting. But think about the players on that team. Kopitar, carter, Williams, doughty etc. they are a good shooting team and are not low event like NJ. So it's unlucky shooting IMO.

Juxtaposer · Jul 18, 2014

"Vlasic has plateaued!!!!"

#Postsfrom2011

Bizz · Jul 18, 2014

If only Vlasic would put up 45-50 points a season with some consistency, he'd be a lock for the HOF.

Vlasic's scoring

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