Player Discussion Vincent Trocheck

[will1066]

I'll get it started. Does he put us over the top?

Yes.

Click to read more...

 

[GAGLine]

No. He's an upgrade on Strome, but we need a lot of other things to go right. The kids have to step up and we're going to need to add a dman or two at some point.

 

[Riche16]

No. He's an upgrade on Strome, but we need a lot of other things to go right. The kids have to step up and we're going to need to add a dman or two at some point.

I agree. It's honestly going to come down to the kids and them hitting some if not all of their potential. Not (just) Trocheck

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

Sounds like he is just gonna get the PP1 spot. I hope that works, but I really am not looking forward to reading the one million posts that are either:

THE KIDS CAN'T GET POINTS or THEY WOULD GET POINTS IF THEY GOT PP TIME.

That will get old fast.

 

[duhmetreE]

I'll get it started. Does he put us over the top?

View attachment 587217

Yes.

I think he puts us in the right direction.

If you only look at numbers it doesn’t seem like much. But he’s the exact type of player we need, especially with Panarin

 

[Riche16]

I think he puts us in the right direction.

If you only look at numbers it doesn’t seem like much. But he’s the exact type of player we need, especially with Panarin

I hope this is true.

I guess I'm scarred still from Jagr having zero chemistry w Drury or Gomez (or vice versa... not an indictment on Jagr) and Panarin "needing" Strome

 

[Calad]

If we were going to sign a C this offseason Trocheck was my top target. Plays all situations (scored a shorty vs us in the playoffs, plays net front and bumper on the PP) , plays on the edge (noted pest), familiar with Turk (from florida days, played his first 3 ful lseasons with him), and he can even hit open nets.

The team is better with him in Strome's place, but we need more things to go right than just him to be "put over the top"

 

[bleedblue94]

that contract is going to age very poorly, and we will be paying 5+ for a 3c in a couple years at the same time that zib starts slowing down and we are paying 8 for a 2c. i understand going for it in ways coming off of last year's run, but i think expectations are sorely out of whack for what kind of player vinny is and what he is going to be here, people talking about how vinny is going to make panarin a better player are out to lunch. add in the fact panarin is making 11+ and is going to be 31 next month and there is a lot of reason to be concerned after the next two years.

this team better take advantage of the opportunity in front of it right now...

 

[cwede]

that contract is going to age very poorly, and we will be paying 5+ for a 3c in a couple years at the same time that zib starts slowing down and we are paying 8 for a 2c. i understand going for it in ways coming off of last year's run, but i think expectations are sorely out of whack for what kind of player vinny is and what he is going to be here, people talking about how vinny is going to make panarin a better player are out to lunch. add in the fact panarin is making 11+ and is going to be 31 next month and there is a lot of reason to be concerned after the next two years.

this team better take advantage of the opportunity in front of it right now...

All high-profile mid-career contracts have a likelihood of aging badly. A way of the world in current pro sports world.

Just my opinion/experience, no offense intended, but i think it's wasting energy projecting beyond 2 years.So much changes w sports teams, gradually but more quickly than it seems.
'24-25 is like another dimension, no reliable way to project whats happening there til ya get there.

 

[bleedblue94]

All high-profile mid-career contracts have a likelihood of aging badly. A way of the world in current pro sports world.

Just my opinion/experience, no offense intended, but i think it's wasting energy projecting beyond 2 years.So much changes w sports teams, gradually but more quickly than it seems.
'24-25 is like another dimension, no reliable way to project whats happening there til ya get there.

i get that, but i think that is exactly why you cant stack a bunch of those kind of contracts with the players all taking a down turn around the same time. that is a big reason why i did not like the trocheck signing for what the terms were bc i expect he will be settling into a 3c role around here sooner than people think. honestly, panarin will become a pp specialist sooner than people think. his 5v5 production is starting to downturn and unfortunately i think this will be an evolving trend with him. 31 year old finese wingers dont tend to get better when they start playing perimeter games

 

[bhamill]

that contract is going to age very poorly, and we will be paying 5+ for a 3c in a couple years at the same time that zib starts slowing down and we are paying 8 for a 2c. i understand going for it in ways coming off of last year's run, but i think expectations are sorely out of whack for what kind of player vinny is and what he is going to be here, people talking about how vinny is going to make panarin a better player are out to lunch. add in the fact panarin is making 11+ and is going to be 31 next month and there is a lot of reason to be concerned after the next two years.

this team better take advantage of the opportunity in front of it right now...

So IF you are correct about his early decline, we will be paying 5+ for a 3C when the cap explodes and he can be traded to 20 teams starting in 2025. But who is to say he wont still be an effective 2C in three or four years still? (If Chytil takes giant steps and makes him the 3C, that is a GOOD problem) And sorry, I don't see Zib declining significantly in two years either. Why should I just accept that? 32-33 is done now?
If this team plays it's cards wisely, and doesn't catch exclusively bad breaks, IMO they have a very long open window of opportunity.

 

[bleedblue94]

So IF you are correct about his early decline, we will be paying 5+ for a 3C when the cap explodes and he can be traded to 20 teams starting in 2025. But who is to say he wont still be an effective 2C in three or four years still? (If Chytil takes giant steps and makes him the 3C, that is a GOOD problem) And sorry, I don't see Zib declining significantly in two years either. Why should I just accept that? 32-33 is done now?
If this team plays it's cards wisely, and doesn't catch exclusively bad breaks, IMO they have a very long open window of opportunity.

You're right, when the cap goes up and other teams finally have money to go spend to get better players they're going to want to take our cap dump again to eat up their cap space.

At some point the strategy of sign guys to bad contracts so that we can dump the contract off on somebody else isn't going to remain all that intelligent. I think people have short memories about what that cost this team in the last decade in the midst of their runs.

 

[McRanger92]

The kids will put us over the top, but Trocheck raises the floor much more than Strome did

 

[bleedblue94]

The kids will put us over the top, but Trocheck raises the floor much more than Strome did

Vinny is definitely an upgrade for this team from what strome was, I don't think anybody's going to argue otherwise. That's not the point that's being raised though so it's kind of irrelevant.

 

[bhamill]

You're right, when the cap goes up and other teams finally have money to go spend to get better players they're going to want to take our cap dump again to eat up their cap space.

At some point the strategy of sign guys to bad contracts so that we can dump the contract off on somebody else isn't going to remain all that intelligent. I think people have short memories about what that cost this team in the last decade in the midst of their runs.

The point is that unless Trocheck falls off a cliff 5mil for him in a rising cap world in '25 is not going to be crazy. It may not even be a cap dump, but if it is it wont be much of one.

 

[bleedblue94]

The point is that unless Trocheck falls off a cliff 5mil for him in a rising cap world in '25 is not going to be crazy. It may not even be a cap dump, but if it is it wont be much of one.

I just struggled to see teams lining up to want to take on your $5 million third line center even when the cap goes up. I know right now he's going to be on the second line But I'm not talking about right now. I'm just not sure why another team would want to throw a lifeline to the rangers and take him on the back ends of that contract. I guess we'll see how this plays out, but I just don't think it's wise to have over 31 million tied up into four players in your top six that are all going to be on the downhill within the next 2 to 3 years.

 

[Levitate]

that contract is going to age very poorly, and we will be paying 5+ for a 3c in a couple years at the same time that zib starts slowing down and we are paying 8 for a 2c. i understand going for it in ways coming off of last year's run, but i think expectations are sorely out of whack for what kind of player vinny is and what he is going to be here, people talking about how vinny is going to make panarin a better player are out to lunch. add in the fact panarin is making 11+ and is going to be 31 next month and there is a lot of reason to be concerned after the next two years.

this team better take advantage of the opportunity in front of it right now...

If the cap shoots up as people have predicted I dont' think it'll be a huge deal

in 5 years if we're paying that for a 2 and 3 C it's probably normal prices

 

[bleedblue94]

If the cap shoots up as people have predicted I dont' think it'll be a huge deal

in 5 years if we're paying that for a 2 and 3 C it's probably normal prices

The cap is prob going up 10 ish million if they do it all in one shot or two years of 5 million. It's not as much money as many people think, especially when we should expect the trend of elite players eating all the cap money to continue. Middle of the road players arent getting paid and probably won't suddenly start getting paid when the cap jump happens. The elite guys around the league are going to soak up that money...

 

[bhamill]

I just struggled to see teams lining up to want to take on your $5 million third line center even when the cap goes up. I know right now he's going to be on the second line But I'm not talking about right now. I'm just not sure why another team would want to throw a lifeline to the rangers and take him on the back ends of that contract. I guess we'll see how this plays out, but I just don't think it's wise to have over 31 million tied up into four players in your top six that are all going to be on the downhill within the next 2 to 3 years.

It takes one team out of 20, or more depending on the year. Not a line of them. And why you are assuming he will be washed at 32 is beyond me. But if that is what you think, that is what you think. Of course your highest paid players will all be "on the downhill" eventually because it's usually guys in the last third of their 20's who have the leverage to get big contracts and term comes with that... but on the downhill does not mean they aren't still excellent NHLers...

 

[will1066]

that contract is going to age very poorly, and we will be paying 5+ for a 3c in a couple years at the same time that zib starts slowing down and we are paying 8 for a 2c. i understand going for it in ways coming off of last year's run, but i think expectations are sorely out of whack for what kind of player vinny is and what he is going to be here, people talking about how vinny is going to make panarin a better player are out to lunch. add in the fact panarin is making 11+ and is going to be 31 next month and there is a lot of reason to be concerned after the next two years.

this team better take advantage of the opportunity in front of it right now...

Not a Rangers-exclusive challenge. We're one of a bunch of teams bidding on players. We weren't going to nab Trocheck without committing years. It was his time to cash in.

The organization didn't have enough confidence in Fil to fill that role, which is too bad.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I think he puts us in the right direction.

If you only look at numbers it doesn’t seem like much. But he’s the exact type of player we need, especially with Panarin

He's exactly what we need in his slot as 2c. Everything that is different stylistically between him and Strome is why we needed to move on from Strome. Trocheck has wheels, he pushes the pace, he's a good forechecker and disruptor, he's solid defensively and he has a great motor. He also has the skill necessary to play with Panarin.

I don't want to be too rose colored glasses on it but I really feel like was the perfect player, style wise, to replace Strome.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

that contract is going to age very poorly, and we will be paying 5+ for a 3c in a couple years at the same time that zib starts slowing down and we are paying 8 for a 2c. i understand going for it in ways coming off of last year's run, but i think expectations are sorely out of whack for what kind of player vinny is and what he is going to be here, people talking about how vinny is going to make panarin a better player are out to lunch. add in the fact panarin is making 11+ and is going to be 31 next month and there is a lot of reason to be concerned after the next two years.

this team better take advantage of the opportunity in front of it right now...

Is there an alternative move Drury could have made you would be happier with or do you just want to complain?

 

[bleedblue94]

Is there an alternative move Drury could have made you would be happier with or do you just want to complain?

Sometimes cap space and patience is smarter than spending money just bc you can.

Not a Rangers-exclusive challenge. We're one of a bunch of teams bidding on players. We weren't going to nab Trocheck without committing years. It was his time to cash in.

The organization didn't have enough confidence in Fil to fill that role, which is too bad.

I'm well aware, but in saying that sometimes it is prudent to be patient and see what other options shake loose

 

[bleedblue94]

It takes one team out of 20, or more depending on the year. Not a line of them. And why you are assuming he will be washed at 32 is beyond me. But if that is what you think, that is what you think. Of course your highest paid players will all be "on the downhill" eventually because it's usually guys in the last third of their 20's who have the leverage to get big contracts and term comes with that... but on the downhill does not mean they aren't still excellent NHLers...

You're missing my point. I don't have an issue with having players on the roster that will downturn or that are older. My issue is having nearly half your cap tied up into a small group of them that very well may fall off within a year or two of each other rather than them being staggered out better. We've gone down that road before and it eventually led to the letter and a reboot of the organization bc there was no good way out of the mess.

 

[McRanger92]

i get that, but i think that is exactly why you cant stack a bunch of those kind of contracts with the players all taking a down turn around the same time. that is a big reason why i did not like the trocheck signing for what the terms were bc i expect he will be settling into a 3c role around here sooner than people think. honestly, panarin will become a pp specialist sooner than people think. his 5v5 production is starting to downturn and unfortunately i think this will be an evolving trend with him. 31 year old finese wingers dont tend to get better when they start playing perimeter games

Why is it assumed that the so called aging core (Mika/Kreider/Trouba/Panarin) is going to fall off a cliff all of a sudden? 3 are coming off excellent/career years and Panarin was off but still produced at an elite level. It’s not like we haven’t seen important players around the league succeed into their mid to late 30s.