Player Discussion Vincent Desharnais

[Jimmi McJenkins]

What is all this talk about Vinny signing a long term deal at a low cap? Lol

People want to keep him around because he's home grown and quite effective.

 

[Captain Controversy]

People want to keep him around because he's home grown and quite effective.

I get it but why on earth would he sign a deal for 6 to 8 years....making 2 million...especially since he is growing.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I get it but why on earth would he sign a deal for 6 to 8 years....making 2 million...especially since he is growing.

Security, bottom end players do this all the time. And he’s almost 28 or something, not like he’s a super young player

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I get it but why on earth would he sign a deal for 6 to 8 years....making 2 million...especially since he is growing.

Toby covers it, it's to entice him to stay if the team wants. Things can swing for a player through no fault of their own.

 

[ManOfSteelI]

I get it but why on earth would he sign a deal for 6 to 8 years....making 2 million...especially since he is growing.

It's something Stauffer threw out there, so that's what got the long term talk going

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

It's something Stauffer threw out there, so that's what got the long term talk going

I didn't realize Stauff mentioned it, we've been dancing around it for a while.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Vinny, I really want the team to keep him, but I cannot fault him going somewhere to get paid.

 

[ManOfSteelI]

I didn't realize Stauff mentioned it, we've been dancing around it for a while.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Vinny, I really want the team to keep him, but I cannot fault him going somewhere to get paid.

I recall someone else making a comparison to the Kostin situation. In my view, he's further along in terms of trust factor than Kostin was.

He has a seemingly strong emotional connection to the locker room and the Org in general. They gave him a chance, so that establishes a level of thankfulness on his end.

Because of that, I think the odds of him taking less money to stay here are higher. How much of a discount? Hard to say at this point.

 

[alanschu]

People are basing Desharnais play based on playing Kings who generally had one player on a heater coming into playoffs. The test will be when we play real offensive teams like Colorado, Dallas, or whoever advances in East. Desharnais struggles with speed and top offensive opponents. Kings aren't really that and Kempe the only gun.

I don't think it's entirely uncalled for given I feel Desharnais still had some gaffes against the Kings last year in the playoffs.

Agreed that it'll be tougher against tougher opponents, but trendline is positive.

 

[The Nuge]

What is all this talk about Vinny signing a long term deal at a low cap? Lol

How many 28 year olds with 114 career games play 6+ more seasons in the NHL? If he takes a shorter deal for more money, and things don’t go well, his career could be over. The idea is to offer him long term security with a solid payday to stay somewhere he loves, and fits in.

It's something Stauffer threw out there, so that's what got the long term talk going

I’ve been pushing it for months. The Isles have done it a couple times with great success

 

[K1984]

How many 28 year olds with 114 career games play 6+ more seasons in the NHL? If he takes a shorter deal for more money, and things don’t go well, his career could be over. The idea is to offer him long term security with a solid payday to stay somewhere he loves, and fits in.



I’ve been pushing it for months. The Isles have done it a couple times with great success

For Vinny this is almost a likely outcome. He is best suited playing bottom pair defensive minutes on a really good team. Only teams that will offer him a higher AAV will be shitty, which will result in his outcomes on the ice probably being shitty, which cascades into a shorter career as you mentioned.

If we got him a longer deal that paid him heavily up front in bonuses it probably puts more money in his pocket today than he would get anywhere else, keeps him in a place where he's playing well, and extends his career out longer than it would probably ever go elsewhere.

 

[Okanagan]

I'm not a fan of signing bottom pairing D or 4th line forwards to longer than 3 years. Most of the GM's would agree with this.

 

[The Nuge]

For Vinny this is almost a likely outcome. He is best suited playing bottom pair defensive minutes on a really good team. Only teams that will offer him a higher AAV will be shitty, which will result in his outcomes on the ice probably being shitty, which cascades into a shorter career as you mentioned.

If we got him a longer deal that paid him heavily up front in bonuses it probably puts more money in his pocket today than he would get anywhere else, keeps him in a place where he's playing well, and extends his career out longer than it would probably ever go elsewhere.

Thats a good point. It also means if we need to dump his contract down the line, it’s less actual money that a rebuilding team would need to spend to hit the cap floor, making him more appealing to take

I'm not a fan of signing bottom pairing D or 4th line forwards to longer than 3 years. Most of the GM's would agree with this.

Depends on AAV. I’d rather give Vinny 8x1.8 than 3x3

 

[Fourier]

How many 28 year olds with 114 career games play 6+ more seasons in the NHL? If he takes a shorter deal for more money, and things don’t go well, his career could be over. The idea is to offer him long term security with a solid payday to stay somewhere he loves, and fits in.



I’ve been pushing it for months. The Isles have done it a couple times with great success

The answer to the bolded...Very few. Especially if they have little offense in their game.

Most purely defensive defenseman get paid on their 4th or 5th contract if they ever do. The Oilers could front load the contract with some generous signing bonuses to make it more palatable.

 

[joestevens29]

Thats a good point. It also means if we need to dump his contract down the line, it’s less actual money that a rebuilding team would need to spend to hit the cap floor, making him more appealing to take



Depends on AAV. I’d rather give Vinny 8x1.8 than 3x3

If you are only paying him 1.8mil even if you have to bury his cap it's not going to all that much of an impact. Especially considering you want those next few years to be as low as possible. Definitely worth the potential long-term minor headache. Or as you say you trade the guy to someone that can use his cap

 

[Okanagan]

Thats a good point. It also means if we need to dump his contract down the line, it’s less actual money that a rebuilding team would need to spend to hit the cap floor, making him more appealing to take



Depends on AAV. I’d rather give Vinny 8x1.8 than 3x3

I'm not advocating for a 3x3 either. Simon Benoit just signed for 3x1.35 and is just as good, if not better than Vinny. Anything more than $2m is a gross overpay IMO (unless you can justify playing VD in the second pairing = Ceci gone).

 

[alanschu]

Most purely defensive defenseman get paid on their 4th or 5th contract if they ever do. The Oilers could front load the contract with some generous signing bonuses to make it more palatable.

I always forget that that is a thing. IIRC there are some limitations on how much a contract can change year over year, but like going like 5m -> 2.5m -> 1.25m -> 1m * 5years = an AAV of 1.7m

Numbers just illustrative and he and his agent would probably like it to slide down a bit less, but a contract like that would probably be pretty convincing over a 3x3 deal as he'd almost come out with the same dollar value. It'd be an examination of the remaining 5 years in assessing the value.

 

[Fourier]

I always forget that that is a thing. IIRC there are some limitations on how much a contract can change year over year, but like going like 5m -> 2.5m -> 1.25m -> 1m * 5years = an AAV of 1.7m

Numbers just illustrative and he and his agent would probably like it to slide down a bit less, but a contract like that would probably be pretty convincing over a 3x3 deal as he'd almost come out with the same dollar value. It'd be an examination of the remaining 5 years in assessing the value.

FYI the rule is that front a front loaded deal the variance from year to year cannot be more than 25% of the first year and the lowest year cannot be any less than 50% of the highest year. So this contract is not legal as stated. The idea is a good one though.

 

[Drivesaitl]

How many 28 year olds with 114 career games play 6+ more seasons in the NHL? If he takes a shorter deal for more money, and things don’t go well, his career could be over. The idea is to offer him long term security with a solid payday to stay somewhere he loves, and fits in.



I’ve been pushing it for months. The Isles have done it a couple times with great success

See it differently. Paying longterm for a player that has only found NHL game in his prime spells trouble.

Desharnais has tons of support now on D and plays for a team that tends to own puck meaning he see's a lot less ozone pressure than he would normally see in NHL. Desharnais would want a security longterm contract but why would the Oilers want that?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I'm not advocating for a 3x3 either. Simon Benoit just signed for 3x1.35 and is just as good, if not better than Vinny. Anything more than $2m is a gross overpay IMO (unless you can justify playing VD in the second pairing = Ceci gone).

Simon Benoit isn’t as good as VD.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Thats a good point. It also means if we need to dump his contract down the line, it’s less actual money that a rebuilding team would need to spend to hit the cap floor, making him more appealing to take



Depends on AAV. I’d rather give Vinny 8x1.8 than 3x3

Again I just can't fathom this. You would sign a 28yr old D that has hardly been in the league long to an 8yr contract? A player that isn't a good skater even in his prime and who gets by on size and wingspan? If Desharnais loses even a step from where he is now which is a given at age 30 then he looks like not even NHL caliber the last half of the contract.

 

[joestevens29]

FYI the rule is that front a front loaded deal the variance from year to year cannot be more than 25% of the first year and the lowest year cannot be any less than 50% of the highest year. So this contract is not legal as stated. The idea is a good one though.

I thought it was 50%, but few places are saying 60%. Now confused lol

 

[tiger_80]

I agree with you about Desharnais.
If he is willing to sign for $2M then you absolutely do it even if it means a 6 year contract.

Moving forward though I just dont see any way the team can justify keeping Nurse after next season.
Thats when Bouchards next contract comes up and he is going to demand big money.
Bouchard appears like he will actually be worth his contract.

i think Nurse's contract will hurt the Oilers for a long time. Not sure if they can keep Desharnais too if he continues to develop. I guess he signs a bridge deal this summer, and may walk next year as a UFA.

P.S. Never mind. he's an unrestricted free agent already this summer. Will be interesting to see what they do with Desharnais now.

 

[Porkleaker]

Again I just can't fathom this. You would sign a 28yr old D that has hardly been in the league long to an 8yr contract? A player that isn't a good skater even in his prime and who gets by on size and wingspan? If Desharnais loses even a step from where he is now which is a given at age 30 then he looks like not even NHL caliber the last half of the contract.

Sounds like Nurse with extra steps.

 

[Porkleaker]

I have been watching vinny closely the last couple of games. Sometimes he looks like he's just floating and then dives into a shot block or suddenly reacts with his big stick. He enjoys his role and his been better than most. LET's GO VD! oh wat...venereal disease.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I was reading someone on the HockeyWriters say that Stauffer was quoted as saying they are going 6-7 years on him since it will lower AAV and he'd still only be 33 or 34 when expiring... basically the only way to keep him is to commit big time.

I'm ok, in fact very supportive, of that in principle, but the number they threw around was "to keep it below $2.5M because on a shorter deal someone will certainly give him more". That has me a bit frightened.

If we can get him 6 x 1.8M or something like that we should be happy... this guy is very good at what he does, and what he does quietly helps win you hockey games.

Yes, it will be interesting. Financially, I think Vinnie's contract value becomes more clear as these playoffs go on and the competition level, pressure, and style of game evolves with differing opponents. This will help to calibrate his pricing as a UFA.

Woodcroft gave him an NHL opportunity that Desharnais seized and has continued to build upon. But can't forget he always fought for his contracts with initial minor league deals and hard playing miles through ECHL and AHL competition. Cap Friendly shows him with career earning of $513,000 so this is now about a peak career player with distinguishing characteristics and attributes that include elite size, hard grinding style, right-handedness, a growing and maturing game at NHL level with PK and game close-out deployment. He's going to get paid and common sense suggests at his age that term length will have to be longer. The range I think could be $2 million to $2.5 but maybe $1.8 as you suggest.

Desharnais bet on himself for over a decade and countless leagues and teams going back to minor midget to be in this position of now controlling his financial destiny. Looks as well like there's more latent potential as his game calms with experience.