Victoriaville Tigres Players Charged with Sexual Assault of a Minor

[BadgerBruce]

Just when we thought junior hockey players were getting their shite together …

“Two Victoriaville Tigres players will be formally charged on Tuesday with sexual assault on a minor and having filmed the victim.
Both players will appear in court today, according to RDS.”

Charges Coming Against Two Victoriaville Tigres Players

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[MatthewsMoustache]

We thought they were getting it together???

I don't know what to say anymore. Everything I want to say would just be repeating myself from the Mailloux incident, the Virtanen incident, the Mitchell Miller incident, etc. Some people just won't learn.

Yet there will still be people in here saying the world is too soft now and they're just kids and all the other enabling BS.

 

[Ferda11]

We thought they were getting it together???

I don't know what to say anymore. Everything I want to say would just be repeating myself from the Mailloux incident, the Virtanen incident, the Mitchell Miller incident, etc. Some people just won't learn.

Yet there will still be people in here saying the world is too soft now and they're just kids and all the other enabling BS.

This

There will always be people who think they will get away with it. Maybe they have before and maybe that's why this keeps happening and we keep hearing about it. There are people out there that much rather take the risk of being caught than to not commit the crime at all. That's the type of world we live in and there's plenty of people in it that will continue to do these things. This will never go away. It's the sad truth.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

We thought they were getting it together???

I don't know what to say anymore. Everything I want to say would just be repeating myself from the Mailloux incident, the Virtanen incident, the Mitchell Miller incident, etc. Some people just won't learn.

Yet there will still be people in here saying the world is too soft now and they're just kids and all the other enabling BS.

The problem is that fans and people put these guys on some sort of pedestal and along with the hockey culture being broken. You have a powder keg for kids to run amoke and like you said there will always be people out there enabling these kids praying at the alter of teenagers playing hockey.

 

[sudburydinnerjacket]

This is not a hockey culture issue. We know about this story because they play hockey. Crap like this happens with regular everyday teenagers too don’t kid yourself.

If all allegations are true I hope they get the punishment they deserve. That said don’t use this story as a reason to sh*t on the game and culture like every player/kid is doing this.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

This is not a hockey culture issue. We know about this story because they play hockey. Crap like this happens with regular everyday teenagers too don’t kid yourself.

If all allegations are true I hope they get the punishment they deserve. That said don’t use this story as a reason to sh*t on the game and culture like every player/kid is doing this.

No one said it doesn’t happen with other people. But the expectation for major junior hockey players is that they don’t carry themselves like an “everyday teenager” and they knew that when they signed up for this life. There is added responsibility to being a hockey player at this level and unfortunately some aren’t ready for that.

 

[BadgerBruce]

This is not a hockey culture issue. We know about this story because they play hockey. Crap like this happens with regular everyday teenagers too don’t kid yourself.

If all allegations are true I hope they get the punishment they deserve. That said don’t use this story as a reason to sh*t on the game and culture like every player/kid is doing this.

This is not a bad take in a general sense, but the facts of this particular situation do cast an unflattering light on “hockey culture.”

Here’s why:

The alleged crimes occurred at a team party held at the team hotel, an event organized/controlled solely by the Victoriaville Tigres management and ownership immediately following the club’s President’s Cup victory in June. The two players were arrested by the police at the hotel.

In other words, this isn’t a story about two players out on “their own time” committing summertime sex crimes. No, the alleged crimes took place solely within a hockey culture setting under the exclusive control of the hockey club.

 

[Generalsupdates]

This is not a hockey culture issue. We know about this story because they play hockey. Crap like this happens with regular everyday teenagers too don’t kid yourself.

If all allegations are true I hope they get the punishment they deserve. That said don’t use this story as a reason to sh*t on the game and culture like every player/kid is doing this.

It's a hockey culture issue. I don't think regular teenager friends are commonly sexually assaulting underage girls together and filming it, like what happened in this scenario.

I don't think regular teens are hooking up with a girl and then circulating the secret video to their work colleagues, like Logan Mailloux did. At some point you can't keep living with your head in the sand

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

This is not a bad take in a general sense, but the facts of this particular situation do cast an unflattering light on “hockey culture.”

Here’s why:

The alleged crimes occurred at a team party held at the team hotel, an event organized/controlled solely by the Victoriaville Tigres management and ownership immediately following the club’s President’s Cup victory in June. The two players were arrested by the police at the hotel.

In other words, this isn’t a story about two players out on “their own time” committing summertime sex crimes. No, the alleged crimes took place solely within a hockey culture setting under the exclusive control of the hockey club.

I hadn't read that it was a team event/hotel. Unbelievable that Victoriaville has these 2 back playing games with the team right now.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

This is not a hockey culture issue. We know about this story because they play hockey. Crap like this happens with regular everyday teenagers too don’t kid yourself.

If all allegations are true I hope they get the punishment they deserve. That said don’t use this story as a reason to sh*t on the game and culture like every player/kid is doing this.

I think I agree with you that it's not necessarily a hockey culture issue, and that "regular" teenagers do this type of stuff as well. I do think that being good at sports in general has skewed the perspectives of a lot of kids, where they have likely been given preferential treatment regularly and now they think they are invincible. It's like that teenaged stupidity where you think you can get away with everything, but also backed up by the fact that you've likely been able to get away with quite a bit because of your athletic abilities.

 

[BadgerBruce]

I hadn't read that it was a team event/hotel. Unbelievable that Victoriaville has these 2 back playing games with the team right now.

Yup. And while most reasonable people want the law enforcement and justice systems to properly deal with the alleged perpetrators, I’d like to hear directly from the Victoriaville Tigres’ organization. Their hotel, their party, their supervision. Is there a particular reason why two players who allegedly sexually assaulted a minor at an official team function were not punished by the team in any way? The whole thing happened under their watch.

 

[sudburydinnerjacket]

I think I agree with you that it's not necessarily a hockey culture issue, and that "regular" teenagers do this type of stuff as well. I do think that being good at sports in general has skewed the perspectives of a lot of kids, where they have likely been given preferential treatment regularly and now they think they are invincible. It's like that teenaged stupidity where you think you can get away with everything, but also backed up by the fact that you've likely been able to get away with quite a bit because of your athletic abilities.

great point. I agree with you.

 

[Ferda11]

It's a hockey culture issue. I don't think regular teenager friends are commonly sexually assaulting underage girls together and filming it, like what happened in this scenario.

I don't think regular teens are hooking up with a girl and then circulating the secret video to their work colleagues, like Logan Mailloux did. At some point you can't keep living with your head in the sand

No offence, but if you think "regular teens" aren't doing this exact same kind of thing, then it's you with your head under the sand. This is glorified because they play junior hockey. This type of stuff happens ALL the time in society. It's the same thing with people who pass away. Anyone that is slightly famous or well known or apart of a certain community, whether it's sports or whatever, we always will hear about it. When some random John Doe passes away, we know or hear nothing. It's all about the story and hockey players doing dumb shit is a hot topic right now.

Either way, there are no excuses for this behaviour, no matter who you are, how well known you are or aren't, how much money you have or don't have etc.

 

[Truthking]

No one said it doesn’t happen with other people. But the expectation for major junior hockey players is that they don’t carry themselves like an “everyday teenager” and they knew that when they signed up for this life. There is added responsibility to being a hockey player at this level and unfortunately some aren’t ready for that.

Just because these kids are good at hockey in no way means they’re more mature or smarter then other kids their age, in fact there is a decent chance they’re likely less mature and not bright at all. Teenagers do this stuff way too often, sports or no sports, the fact that these kids play hockey really should have nothing to do with the story. If 2 random guys who happened to work together at subway committed this same assault, would subway be blamed for their bad choices?

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Just because these kids are good at hockey in no way means they’re more mature or smarter then other kids their age, in fact there is a decent chance they’re likely less mature and not bright at all. Teenagers do this stuff way too often, sports or no sports, the fact that these kids play hockey really should have nothing to do with the story. If 2 random guys who happened to work together at subway committed this same assault, would subway be blamed for their bad choices?

They are expected to be more mature than the typical teenager. They aren't typical teenagers. They have moved away from home at 16 or 17 to play the highest level of hockey they can at their age in front of thousands of people every night. As I mentioned before, they knew this when they joined. If we just keep saying "oh they're teenagers they'll learn" nothing is going to change and nothing has yet.

And to the Subway point, I didn't blame the team, though knowing what I do now (that it was at a team event in a team hotel) I probably should have. And the fact that they were brought back and playing games to start this year is a God awful look on Victoriaville and the QMJHL.

 

[Truthking]

They are expected to be more mature than the typical teenager. They aren't typical teenagers. They have moved away from home at 16 or 17 to play the highest level of hockey they can at their age in front of thousands of people every night. As I mentioned before, they knew this when they joined. If we just keep saying "oh they're teenagers they'll learn" nothing is going to change and nothing has yet.

And to the Subway point, I didn't blame the team, though knowing what I do now (that it was at a team event in a team hotel) I probably should have. And the fact that they were brought back and playing games to start this year is a God awful look on Victoriaville and the QMJHL.

Expected to be, and actually being that way are very different things. Professional athletes are expected to behave a certain way and be role models, we know that for a fact that often doesn’t happen. If everyone behaved the way they were expected the world would be a much nicer place.
As for the teams actions, I would certainly hope they didn’t know about it and continue like it never happened. I can’t imagine they were assaulting her in the middle of a team dinner, so not sure what they would have done to prevent it happening.
I’m not saying I excuse their actions because they’re “just teenagers” I’m saying them being in the CHL has no bearing on those actions.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Expected to be, and actually being that way are very different things. Professional athletes are expected to behave a certain way and be role models, we know that for a fact that often doesn’t happen. If everyone behaved the way they were expected the world would be a much nicer place.
As for the teams actions, I would certainly hope they didn’t know about it and continue like it never happened. I can’t imagine they were assaulting her in the middle of a team dinner, so not sure what they would have done to prevent it happening.
I’m not saying I excuse their actions because they’re “just teenagers” I’m saying them being in the CHL has no bearing on those actions.

For sure. But since we have a clear example of players not being role models in any way shape or form, there needs to be action taken to actually show that this is unacceptable and not just say it in a media release.

The players were arrested at the hotel. So that rules out Victoriaville and the Q not knowing about this incident.

Even worse, Nicolas Daigle was invited to the Anaheim Ducks rookie camp a month and a half later. It's things like this where it becomes a problem in hockey. These 2 were brought back to play after being arrested for sexual assault in a team hotel and one of them was invited to a National Hockey League camp.

It sends a horrible message that if you're good enough, you can do whatever you want and will never be out of a job. Mailloux's draft stock didn't fall a bit, Mitchell Miller had to sit out one COVID-shortened season in the USHL before being signed back, DeAngelo keeps getting signed, KHL teams are lining up for the likes of Jake Virtanen, Brendan Leipsic and Jeremy Bracco. I know it happens in other sports too, but if you're goal is to be as ethical as the NFL, you need to take a look in the mirror.

 

[Purple Phart]

Ok, let me play the devil's advocate here. There is a culture involving Junior-aged hockey players and that's a phenomena known as "puck bunnies". These are usually composed of sexually precocious teen-aged girls who are actively looking to score...specifically with hockey players. Every team has them, and many of the players quickly become acquainted with just who the "party girls" are. Some avail themselves of whatever is offered, and I do suspect that some of the "veteran players" coherse the rookies into social interaction with these girls, as a rite of passage, or a form of hazing. I highly suspect that some of these girls are 16 going on 20 and aren't exactly angels.

So, given that culture lurking on the fringe of Junior hockey clubs, and the fact that most of these young men are post pubescent, and posessing high levels of testosterone, is it any wonder that some secumb to temptation. Some may say that I'm engaging in "victim blaming", but I have to seriously question just who the victims are in such situations ???

 

[StormWatcher]

Ok, let me play the devil's advocate here. There is a culture involving Junior-aged hockey players and that's a phenomena known as "puck bunnies". These are usually composed of sexually precocious teen-aged girls who are actively looking to score...specifically with hockey players. Every team has them, and many of the players quickly become acquainted with just who the "party girls" are. Some avail themselves of whatever is offered, and I do suspect that some of the "veteran players" coherse the rookies into social interaction with these girls, as a rite of passage, or a form of hazing. I highly suspect that some of these girls are 16 going on 20 and aren't exactly angels.

So, given that culture lurking on the fringe of Junior hockey clubs, and the fact that most of these young men are post pubescent, and posessing high levels of testosterone, is it any wonder that some secumb to temptation. Some may say that I'm engaging in "victim blaming", but I have to seriously question just who the victims are in such situations ???

Wow. O.K. There is a HUGE difference between consentual sex between teenagers "partying" and non-consentual sex and then video taping it and sending it to your buddies. Even if you consented to sex, would you be cool with someone photographing or videoing it and sending it around? It's now out in the world, posted who knows where.

The fact that you called your post "playing devil's advocate" just proves that this is a huge cultural issue and not just a case of a few bad apples.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Ok, let me play the devil's advocate here. There is a culture involving Junior-aged hockey players and that's a phenomena known as "puck bunnies". These are usually composed of sexually precocious teen-aged girls who are actively looking to score...specifically with hockey players. Every team has them, and many of the players quickly become acquainted with just who the "party girls" are. Some avail themselves of whatever is offered, and I do suspect that some of the "veteran players" coherse the rookies into social interaction with these girls, as a rite of passage, or a form of hazing. I highly suspect that some of these girls are 16 going on 20 and aren't exactly angels.

So, given that culture lurking on the fringe of Junior hockey clubs, and the fact that most of these young men are post pubescent, and posessing high levels of testosterone, is it any wonder that some secumb to temptation. Some may say that I'm engaging in "victim blaming", but I have to seriously question just who the victims are in such situations ???

The 2 players are charged with sexual assault. That means non-consensual. No means No and is not contingent on one’s background.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Wow. O.K. There is a HUGE difference between consentual sex between teenagers "partying" and non-consentual sex and then video taping it and sending it to your buddies. Even if you consented to sex, would you be cool with someone photographing or videoing it and sending it around? It's now out in the world, posted who knows where.

The fact that you called your post "playing devil's advocate" just proves that this is a huge cultural issue and not just a case of a few bad apples.

Right and playing devils advocate and bringing up puck bunnies is pretty much victim blaming. Video taping it, incident happening in June, party held by the team. I am sure these organizations bring in guest speakers and counsellors to talk to them about this stuff but it still does not resonate with these kids. Yes this stuff happens in a lot of places look at the cesspool University of Western Ontario and their orientation week.

 

[Purple Phart]

The 2 players are charged with sexual assault. That means non-consensual. No means No and is not contingent on one’s background.

A charge of sexual assault doesn't necessarily mean there was the absence of consent. The charge can be laid if the female(s) in question were under the age of consent.

As to "victim blaming",,,,I raised the possibility that there were and are situations where these supposed "victims" are on the more-than-willing side, and serve as the primer for the so-called "hockey culture" involving consensual sex among teenagers. Interesting that consensual seems to be acceptable....but crossing the line and getting caught in doing so becomes the unacceptable norm.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

A charge of sexual assault doesn't necessarily mean there was the absence of consent. The charge can be laid if the female(s) in question were under the age of consent.

As to "victim blaming",,,,I raised the possibility that there were and are situations where these supposed "victims" are on the more-than-willing side, and serve as the primer for the so-called "hockey culture" involving consensual sex among teenagers. Interesting that consensual seems to be acceptable....but crossing the line and getting caught in doing so becomes the unacceptable norm.

Let's keep the perspective that the crown prosecutor is not going to lay charges if he does not believe there is a good chance of conviction. That does not mean they could be found not guilty, or a some type of resolution was made. At the very least we know for a fact these two players used poor judgment, made a bad decision and now have to face possible consequences.

 

[BadgerBruce]

A charge of sexual assault doesn't necessarily mean there was the absence of consent. The charge can be laid if the female(s) in question were under the age of consent.

As to "victim blaming",,,,I raised the possibility that there were and are situations where these supposed "victims" are on the more-than-willing side, and serve as the primer for the so-called "hockey culture" involving consensual sex among teenagers. Interesting that consensual seems to be acceptable....but crossing the line and getting caught in doing so becomes the unacceptable norm.

The QMJHL, which reviewed the court filings, would seem to hold a different view:

“These are charges that the QMJHL takes very seriously. The respect and the integrity of individuals are at the core of the league's values and violent sexual behaviour of any sort has no place in a sports environment like ours. We feel great sympathy for the victims of physical and sexual violence and the league stands by its zero-tolerance policy in that regard.”

https://www.oursportscentral.com/se...nd-siciliano-suspended-indefinitely/n-5753047

 

[Purple Phart]

I do agree that these players exercised poor judgement, and have to face the consequences for their decisions. I still am of the opinion that there are 2 sides to any story, and that there are possibly mitigating circumstances. Are any of you familiar with the term "jailbait" ??
It's been around for quite a while, and this might be applicable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jailbait