News Article: Vezina Trophy: Ben Bishop

[Ice-Tray]

Has anyone every seen that Nizzy or Margaret Trudeau trolls post anything positive anywhere? Good for a laugh I suppose.

There are few teams that could have traded Bishop away and still be happy given the season he's having, and we are one of them. This isn't a Philly and Bob situation.

Lehner is our up and comer, and Anderson is our vet. Both are excellent goalies for us. This is a set up for the future, and both players know it. Bishop and Lehner would not work as both are rookie tenders, no one has established themselves, and there is no hierarchy pre-established. Not to mention neither of them have any experience dealing with the ups and downs of personnel and team performances as this level. They also wouldn't have anything to learn form each other.

No, we made the right move. We kept our veteran star starter, and chose Lehner over Bishop. Doubt there is anyone on here would wishes we had Bishop over Lehner.

 

[Topside]

That's awesome news. Bishop is a heck of a goalie, good for him. It's a rare thing when a trade benefits everybody involved.

 

[Punchbowl]

xxxx

 

[Sens Rule]

That's awesome news. Bishop is a heck of a goalie, good for him. It's a rare thing when a trade benefits everybody involved.

Yup. Bishop helped us make the playoffs, dealt him for more then it cost to acquire him. Bishop has full time NHL gig. Conacher has full time gig too.

Who cares that Bishop is up for the vezina? It makes no difference with the deal we made. We had to trade him, we got the most quality possible. Former AHL MVP that is in our top 6 the last several games.

Win-win

 

[Xspyrit]

People quickly forget that we paid only a 2nd rounder to get Bishop and he helped us two years in a row to reach the playoffs. Not only he did that, but he served to acquire Conacher and Tobias Lindberg

 

[Tampacuseforever]

People quickly forget that we paid only a 2nd rounder to get Bishop and he helped us two years in a row to reach the playoffs. Not only he did that, but he served to acquire Conacher and Tobias Lindberg

Yzerman could of had Bishop from St.Louis for that second round pick. Instead he paid the price of two second round picks for Lindback, and then coughed up Conacher and a forth for Bishop a year later As they say **** happens

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

He also plays infront of a system thats very similar to what the Sens were rolling last season. He wouldn't be winning one here, this season.

Exactly.

When I look at Tampa, I'd say his success in nets this year is 50% Bishop, and 50% team system in Tampa. It also "helped" them to lose their top scorer in Stamkos for awhile to encourage the guys to tighten up defensively even more (like what happened to us last year).

I wouldn't pencil in Bishop as the next Roy or Brodeur...he has a lot more to prove.

 

[RedWhiteBlackGold]

Proud of Bishop and what he's achieved so far this year. Tampa has been playing really good this year and nobody has really been talking about them much.

It sucks because we've all seen the potential he had with us and it was just a matter of misfortune to him that he came in time where we finally have good goalies to compete against.

You can never get fair value in a trade for potential...and that's not a knock on Conacher because he's been a trooper for us, but Bishop's value looks pretty good with them right about now.

 

[Laphroaig]

Conacher was the best deal out there when we made it. We needed to trade a goalie. I just wish it had have been Anderson. That's not hindsight. I advocated for it last year and I was by no means alone on that. With Andy gone Bishop would have re-signed in a heartbeat.

It's a shame Bishop was snubbed for the American Olympic team. He's clearly outplayed all three goalies named.

 

[Margaret Trudeau*]

I'm just going to re-post what I said in the Bishop thread on the main board a while back:

Lehner waiting in the minors. You need just look at the rule of averages to know that Anderson was not going to continue at his pace. Not rocket science.

 

[SenzZen]

I swear some of you aren't even Sens fans.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Conacher was the best deal out there when we made it. We needed to trade a goalie. I just wish it had have been Anderson. That's not hindsight. I advocated for it last year and I was by no means alone on that. With Andy gone Bishop would have re-signed in a heartbeat.

It's a shame Bishop was snubbed for the American Olympic team. He's clearly outplayed all three goalies named.

I was sayign trade anderson as well. His return would have been much larger. he had the best numbers in the league at a very reasonable contract. Bishop and Lehner this year would have been fine and if bishop played the same way he has been playing this year his return when we needed to trade him would have been much more than conacher+ a fourth.

 

[EatPrayHockey]

He also plays infront of a system thats very similar to what the Sens were rolling last season. He wouldn't be winning one here, this season.

This.

Bishop is a big part of why Tampa is so good this year, but he's not the only part. If you put Lehner behind a squad playing as well as the Lightning are this season I have a sneaking suspicion that all this trade regret goes away.

If Bishop (or the vast majority of the league's goalies, really) was getting hung out to dry with the frequency Lehner's been seeing, there'd be no Vezina talk.

 

[Human Megaphone]

I was sayign trade anderson as well. His return would have been much larger. he had the best numbers in the league at a very reasonable contract. Bishop and Lehner this year would have been fine and if bishop played the same way he has been playing this year his return when we needed to trade him would have been much more than conacher+ a fourth.

Trading your starting goaltender when you are about to make the playoffs and he is having a statistical year for the ages is ridiculous.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Lehner waiting in the minors. You need just look at the rule of averages to know that Anderson was not going to continue at his pace. Not rocket science.

Couldn't the same be said about Bishop continuing at his pace?

 

[Sens Rule]

Couldn't the same be said about Bishop continuing at his pace?

I think that all 3 are great goalies. All 3 are going to be great goalies for at least the next 5 years. We had to move one. Bishop was the only choice at the time. No point in looking back now. Though everytime we are in a shootout I kinda wish Bishop was in nets for us!

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Right now, Conacher is a 20+goal/60+ point player in the right spot. He's got possible potential to be a 30 goal/70-80 point player. (Key word, potential).

It looks like Ottawa has finally found a fit for him this season.

If both Bishop and Conacher meet their potential, it's a win/win trade. One team eventually gets a top 6 20-30 goal scorer, the other gets a long term top 10 goalie.

The team in front of Ottawa's goalies this year hasn't been great, so had Bishop stayed, he might put up Lehner numbers or slightly better, but he wouldn't be seen as a Vezina level goalie.

 

[Tkachuk27]

Has anyone every seen that Nizzy or Margaret Trudeau trolls post anything positive anywhere? Good for a laugh I suppose.

There are few teams that could have traded Bishop away and still be happy given the season he's having, and we are one of them. This isn't a Philly and Bob situation.

Lehner is our up and comer, and Anderson is our vet. Both are excellent goalies for us. This is a set up for the future, and both players know it. Bishop and Lehner would not work as both are rookie tenders, no one has established themselves, and there is no hierarchy pre-established. Not to mention neither of them have any experience dealing with the ups and downs of personnel and team performances as this level. They also wouldn't have anything to learn form each other.

No, we made the right move. We kept our veteran star starter, and chose Lehner over Bishop. Doubt there is anyone on here would wishes we had Bishop over Lehner.

Troll lol **** ..The trade was horrible you obviously drink the Kool Aid.

So your saying Bishop and Lehner wouldnt work lol ..did you see that in your crystal ball lol
I blame the coaching staff as much as I blame Murray for not realizing the potential Bishop had but it would have taken a genius GM to hold onto Bishop.But Murray is a loyalty guy thats why he never won in Det or Anaheim

 

[SilverSeven]

I'm just going to re-post what I said in the Bishop thread on the main board a while back:

Bishop was better than Lehner last year

Lehner had the same issue last year that he has this year...great numbers...inability to translate that into wins.

As for the trade...unfortunate necessity. I have said from the beginning I wish we could have kept all 3 this year and see where another year of development leaves Bishop/Lehner, but I dont think that was a very realistic situation with Lehner apparently being upset with being in the AHL... For a team that has searched for goaltending its entire existence this fanbase (well actually just this board really) has for some reason latched onto Lehner and deemed everyone else expendable. All the talk last year was how Bishop should have never been acquired and should have been gone yesterday, and this year everyone has wanted Andy out. Sucks that we had to get rid of him, but that we got someone as good as Conacher is unbelievable IMO. Goalies dont usually fetch much.

Too bad the Oilers didnt jump on him though. They needed Bishop more than anyone, he wouldnt be in division, and god knows what they would have given us.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Trading your starting goaltender when you are about to make the playoffs and he is having a statistical year for the ages is ridiculous.

Yeah, but it's really easy to look like a genius armchair GM when you have the hind sight that being almost a year into the future provides.

The Bishop trade was good. Conacher is very likely going to be a top 6 player for Ottawa. I'd bet money that he'll be a 30+ goal scorer.

Bishop probably would not have struggled as much as Anderson, but he wasn't going to be a Vezina goalie in front of THIS Ottawa defense. Last year, Ottawa's goalies had inflated numbers partly due to only having to face Eastern Conference teams.

Conacher may bust, who knows, but it's not likely. Odds are, it becomes the definition of a win/win trade. The alternative wasn't moving Anderson, it was moving Lehner, which if that happened, this board might have imploded. Ottawa made the right choice. It was good asset management, and it made the team better.

Troll lol **** ..The trade was horrible you obviously drink the Kool Aid.

So your saying Bishop and Lehner wouldnt work lol ..did you see that in your crystal ball lol
I blame the coaching staff as much as I blame Murray for not realizing the potential Bishop had but it would have taken a genius GM to hold onto Bishop.But Murray is a loyalty guy thats why he never won in Det or Anaheim

I'm not saying Lehner is better or worse than Bishop, but in 19 games, he's put up a .922 save percentage behind this mostly bad Ottawa defense.

I don't know enough about Tampa to judge their defense, but going on an assumption that they are a better team defensively than Ottawa, is it hard to believe that Bishop might not put up a .935 if he were Ottawa's starter this season, and Lehner might put up slightly better numbers than .922 had he been the one to go to Tampa Bay?

The reality of the situation is that Ottawa had to give up Bishop or Lehner. They were going to get a similar return regardless of which one they chose to give up. Ottawa got a young guy who was on pace for 25 goals and 56 points for Ben Bishop. When you look at what Vancouver got for a much more proven Cory Schneider, Ottawa worked out a very good return.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Bishop was better than Lehner last year

Lehner had the same issue last year that he has this year...great numbers...inability to translate that into wins.

As for the trade...unfortunate necessity. I have said from the beginning I wish we could have kept all 3 this year and see where another year of development leaves Bishop/Lehner, but I dont think that was a very realistic situation with Lehner apparently being upset with being in the AHL... For a team that has searched for goaltending its entire existence this fanbase (well actually just this board really) has for some reason latched onto Lehner and deemed everyone else expendable. All the talk last year was how Bishop should have never been acquired and should have been gone yesterday, and this year everyone has wanted Andy out. Sucks that we had to get rid of him, but that we got someone as good as Conacher is unbelievable IMO. Goalies dont usually fetch much.

Too bad the Oilers didnt jump on him though. They needed Bishop more than anyone, he wouldnt be in division, and god knows what they would have given us.

Wait, what? Wins are as stupid in hockey as they are in baseball

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Bishop was better than Lehner last year

Lehner had the same issue last year that he has this year...great numbers...inability to translate that into wins.

As for the trade...unfortunate necessity. I have said from the beginning I wish we could have kept all 3 this year and see where another year of development leaves Bishop/Lehner, but I dont think that was a very realistic situation with Lehner apparently being upset with being in the AHL... For a team that has searched for goaltending its entire existence this fanbase (well actually just this board really) has for some reason latched onto Lehner and deemed everyone else expendable. All the talk last year was how Bishop should have never been acquired and should have been gone yesterday, and this year everyone has wanted Andy out. Sucks that we had to get rid of him, but that we got someone as good as Conacher is unbelievable IMO. Goalies dont usually fetch much.

Too bad the Oilers didnt jump on him though. They needed Bishop more than anyone, he wouldnt be in division, and god knows what they would have given us.

They offered Randy Jones and a 2nd...pass!

On Oil Change, they had Lowe and Tambo discussing acquiring Bishop and when they hear what Tampa gave up...they act astonished at what they paid.

 

[Spezza]

The Bishop trade was good. Conacher is very likely going to be a top 6 player for Ottawa. I'd bet money that he'll be a 30+ goal scorer.

While Conacher's play has picked up recently; I think the stars would have to align for him to pot 30+ goals - especially in this era. He's only got 4 this year...

As to the trade itself, sucks that no one wanted to pay more, but dem the breaks.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

While Conacher's play has picked up recently; I think the stars would have to align for him to pot 30+ goals - especially in this era. He's only got 4 this year...

As to the trade itself, sucks that no one wanted to pay more, but dem the breaks.

He would have scored a prorated 24 goals last year had it been a full season. So the idea that he could peak at 30 goals with the right place on the team, and the right development is not that farfetched.

They just need to find him the right fit, which looks to be on a line with Z-bad at center.

Odds are, if he doesn't find a fit in Ottawa, and he gets moved elsewhere, he eventually gets on a team who uses him right, has a few strong seasons, and then we make threads about why we got such a bad return for Conacher when he's a top six guy else where.

He's a lot more likely to be a career 20-25 goal scorer, but he could peak as a legit 30 goal top six guy. He could also bust and be out of the NHL in a few years, but I find the odds of that to not be very likely.

While Conacher's play has picked up recently; I think the stars would have to align for him to pot 30+ goals - especially in this era. He's only got 4 this year...

As to the trade itself, sucks that no one wanted to pay more, but dem the breaks.

I'm not sure why people are acting like Conacher was a bad return. To put things into context, Vancouver got the 9th overall pick for Schneider. Bishop has higher value now, but at the time, Schneider was a proven number one goalie with playoff experience, Bishop was a guy with great AHL numbers, and a good streak of games relieving Anderson in Ottawa.

Ottawa got a guy who was putting up what would have been a 20 goal, almost 60 point season in his rookie year (had it been over a full season) for what at the time was seen as an inferior goalie to Schneider.

People are basing the return off of what both guys are doing now. Ottawa got a very good return at the time for Bishop.

Bishop got two million from Tampa. Ottawa would not have been able to afford him at 2 million this year. What compensation does Ottawa get for a 2 million dollar offer sheet? It's either a 2nd or a 3rd. Conacher+a 4th is a better return.

 

[NyQuil]

With respect to the trade return, Bishop was an unproven goalie and you just don't get a lot for that.

My only issue with the Bishop trade is that he's in the division. Aside from that, I don't really have an issue.

You can't have two goalies of the same age and at around the same stage in their careers in the organization.

It was either Lehner or Bishop.

Personally, I'm still high on Lehner, but time may prove that wrong. But I'll bet there would be a lot more hand-wringing and agony on this board if it was Lehner who was sent packing.

The Bishop trade was good. Conacher is very likely going to be a top 6 player for Ottawa. I'd bet money that he'll be a 30+ goal scorer.

Do you realize how rare it is for a Senator to score 30 goals?

I'm not talking paces, I'm talking actually scoring 30.

There was Michalek and Spezza two years ago, and then you have to go back to Dany Heatley (and Spezza again that year).

People are basing the return off of what both guys are doing now. Ottawa got a very good return at the time for Bishop.

And you are basing your analysis on what he did with Stamkos and St. Louis:

Ottawa got a guy who was putting up what would have been a 20 goal, almost 60 point season in his rookie year (had it been over a full season) for what at the time was seen as an inferior goalie to Schneider.

I like Conacher, but I think you may want to tone down your expectations a little.