News Article: Vezina candidate Tuukka Rask not satisfied

[VanIsle]

Rask is elite, and like above winning the Cup is extremely tough.

LA, Chicago are just as good as the Bruins. Anaheim, St Louis, Pittsburgh are very close. Throw them all into a hat with luck and a hot goalie your chances are 1in 6 not to mention Cinderella teams.

 

[David Krejci*]

You seem pretty selective about when you let mitigating factors enter the equation. In fact, your criticisms of Rask sound very unwelcoming of mitigations of any kind. Such as slagging him for the loss of the Philly series, after the team lost its best centre and a bunch of other mitigating circumstances.

Losing Krejci was the biggest thing that lost them that series. But losing Krejci didn't have anything to do with all of the soft ass goals Rask gave up after we went up 3-0 in Game 7.

Fact is, Rask won the Vezina for being the best goalie during the regular season. We all agree on that. Most of us seem to be able to find it in us to be happy about that while also being disappointed in the fact that the Bruins didn't win the Cup this year, which encompasses an acceptance that Rask didn't play his best all the time in the post-season this year - which is also something he had in common with virtually the entire roster. The latter being the real reason they lost, not solely because of the play of the goalie.

I agree, and I never once said it was solely because of the play of the goalie. But Rask winning the Vezina doesn't make him exempt from criticism for some of the bad goals he gave up in the playoffs. And just because I criticize Rask for those bad goals, does not mean I am putting the whole reason why the lost on him. In fact he is very far down the list of the reasons why they lost, but that doesn't mean he is off the hook.

I think most reasonable observers of the game recognize that reality, just as most NHL GMs recognize Tuukka Rask as the best goalie in this past NHL regular season. As they just did.

In the regular season, which as I've said, I don't care about. I don't put any stock whatsoever into individual awards in the regular season, and anyone who does has a loser's mentality, in my mind. Without a Cup, it's just a bunch of whipped cream on top of a **** milkshake.

I don't know what else to say to any Bruins fan who is unhappy about going for it again next season with a Vezina-winning goalie between the pipes.

Never once said I don't want him between the pipes.

People said the exact same things about Tim Thomas - until he won the Cup. One more reason I'll especially savour watching Tuukka raise Lord Stanley over his head.

And all of those criticisms of Thomas were fair. And I've already said that I believe Rask will win the Cup, because of his skills and because of his attitude.

Several things I need to understand here:

1) Discussing means criticizing? That explains a lot!

Yes, it does. Criticizing is a part of discussing.

2) You have a disdain for high horses but presume to tell other people what this is "a time and place for"?

I would not have brought that up if I wasn't just preached to about how I need to stop being so negative. If someone wants to be happy with a Vezina trophy, I'm not going to bash them. Unless they are telling me how I should act as a fan and how my values and things that I place emphasis on should be. Then, yes, I will do that.

3) You're calling out Rask for not coming up big when we needed him in the playoffs, but you're unwilling to praise Thomas for doing just that in 2011?

Where do you get that I am unwilling to praise Thomas for doing that? I said that it was a team win and that I hate when people put it all on Thomas, because it wasn't all Thomas. He was generationally good in those playoffs, and deserved the Conn Smythe. There is nothing about anything that I have said in here that suggests I am unwilling to praise Thomas for what he did in 2011.

You know, you just can't go changing your high horse in midstream.

I'm not.

I have addressed you point by point. And this is why HFBoards is the worst. Because you criticize even a little bit, make a perfectly fair analysis that Rask will always have the lack of a Cup looming over him until he wins it. And look at the words that have been put into my mouth, look at the twisting of the words. The "people had the same questions about Tim Thomas before 2011" as if Tim Thomas had done anything at all prior to 2011 to not deserve having those questions asked about him.

Even after I had stated multiple times that I believe that eventually Tuukka will win a Cup, we still get all of that ^. Kind of funny, actually.

 

[ODAAT]

For those not happy with Rask comment, Julien said the same thing in french on the radio. He said inexperienced D-men made it tough to win this year. Agree with it or not, it's an opinion.

wait, you telling me that the Bruins AREN`T the first team with a young D heading into the playoffs who have struggled???

 

[MetM]

Chad Johnson's stats were just as good as Rask's.

Yeah, you must wonder how come he didn't win the Vezina, right?

 

[Hali33]

I think what people are trying to get across to you is -- when you've watched the game long enough, you do realize that Vezina and Selke caliber players aren't exactly a dime a dozen. Further, not very easy to come by, or everyone would have one. Furthermore, having Thomas and Rask back to back is something this fan base should and will appreciate for a long, long time. But, in terms of goaltending, it's created some of the most spoiled rotten fans imaginable. Add to that a warped sense of expectations in regard to goaltending. Sadly, some just will not gain perspective until one day when we really do have a human goalie tutor between the pipes.

Nah, the Vezina doesn't mean much. Unless you're a professional hockey goalie. Or a fan of a professional hockey team that's fortunate enough to have a Vezina caliber goalie. I'd say unlike many other good teams, we have that part of the puzzle pretty much solved. At least in contrast to things like making our first line faster and more effective. Or maintaining solid balanced D pairs while staying under the cap. Further, what we should do w/ a UFA HOF 30 goal scoring wing whose speed has taken a hit. Especially while your "top" center makes Jason Allison look "speedy". So, the Vezina could simply serve as a clue that the big "problem" w/ the Bruins was not, or isn't currently, goaltending in particular.

I thought the Chara thread was a real prize winner. But this one has some serious potential.

Carry on!

Great post.

 

[Neely08]

For the most part Rask was awesome last year and 99% of Bruin fans are happy we are moving forward with him but he did struggle against Montreal.The other factors you mention were just as important in our downfall and I agree I have more confidence in Rask playing well next year in comparison to a Krejci-Lucic-Iginla line catching fire[particularly against Montreal] but if we are trying to dissect the reasons why we lost how can you not factor Rask's substandard play into the equation?

Because through that whole series I can think of three, maybe four goals I'd of liked to have back. You can win a series and still have that. All you can ever ask of your goaltender is - did he give you a chance to win? They had 7 games to get it in gear, and didn't. Did our young D? Ask yourself which of those teams was supposed to be the superior defensive team in the first place. Were they? How a/b our offense? What happened to the three line attack? Krejci looked like a kid w/ pool floats on at a varsity swim meet. Soda went from a secondary scoring role to a primary one. Sorry, not good enough. Keeping that "1st" line together helped us squeak by in 2011, just barely. This time it was a monumental mistake. Worst part is you could smell that coming, and there was NO plan B. No thread this year of people who support CJ's every decision patting themselves on the back, is there? He was always proven right, this time he wasn't. Way too much to go around to be blaming the goalie.

Could Tuukka have been better? Yup. Does that negate that he's one of the elite goalies in the league? Nope. He's 26? Jesus H!!! Like TT, put a good enough team in front of him, Tuukka will take us all the way. People should be happy the Vezina is out of the way for him.

Why I say our fan base has a completely BBQ'd set of expectations in regard to what can be expected from your goalie. No one should EVER expect what TT delivered in 2011 in the first place. Once in a lifetime performance. That guy made saves only he could make. It could be decades before you see another performance like that. Nor will we ever see the "battle-fly" again. Go ask Lundqvist and Quick. Same people in here that wiped their ass w/ what TT gave them, will follow suit w/ Tuukka. Nothing new.

 

[qc]

Yes, but the Bruins "get up" for tough opponents, and may have letdowns against weaker opponents...so it evens out.

I'm confused.. what are you trying to say, that the difference between Rask and Johnson (as our long-term #1G) is negligible?

 

[jgatie]

I'm confused.. what are you trying to say, that the difference between Rask and Johnson (as our long-term #1G) is negligible?

Nobody knows what he's trying to say, including him. He spouts nothing but meaningless shtick. Ignore it.

 

[qc]

Nobody knows what he's trying to say, including him. He spouts nothing but meaningless shtick. Ignore it.

I can't ignore it, there's a special place in my heart for kytem.

 

[Caper Bruins fan]

Because through that whole series I can think of three, maybe four goals I'd of liked to have back. You can win a series and still have that. All you can ever ask of your goaltender is - did he give you a chance to win? They had 7 games to get it in gear, and didn't. Did our young D? Ask yourself which of those teams was supposed to be the superior defensive team in the first place. Were they? How a/b our offense? What happened to the three line attack? Krejci looked like a kid w/ pool floats on at a varsity swim meet. Soda went from a secondary scoring role to a primary one. Sorry, not good enough. Keeping that "1st" line together helped us squeak by in 2011, just barely. This time it was a monumental mistake. Worst part is you could smell that coming, and there was NO plan B. No thread this year of people who support CJ's every decision patting themselves on the back, is there? He was always proven right, this time he wasn't. Way too much to go around to be blaming the goalie.

Could Tuukka have been better? Yup. Does that negate that he's one of the elite goalies in the league? Nope. He's 26? Jesus H!!! Like TT, put a good enough team in front of him, Tuukka will take us all the way. People should be happy the Vezina is out of the way for him.

Why I say our fan base has a completely BBQ'd set of expectations in regard to what can be expected from your goalie. No one should EVER expect what TT delivered in 2011 in the first place. Once in a lifetime performance. That guy made saves only he could make. It could be decades before you see another performance like that. Nor will we ever see the "battle-fly" again. Go ask Lundqvist and Quick. Same people in here that wiped their ass w/ what TT gave them, will follow suit w/ Tuukka. Nothing new.

Yes,TT's performance was almost a miracle and something long time Bruin fans richly deserved after putting up with the likes of John Grahame,Byron Dafoe,etc.

 

[HumBucker]

I have addressed you point by point. And this is why HFBoards is the worst. Because you criticize even a little bit, make a perfectly fair analysis that Rask will always have the lack of a Cup looming over him until he wins it. And look at the words that have been put into my mouth, look at the twisting of the words. The "people had the same questions about Tim Thomas before 2011" as if Tim Thomas had done anything at all prior to 2011 to not deserve having those questions asked about him.

Even after I had stated multiple times that I believe that eventually Tuukka will win a Cup, we still get all of that ^. Kind of funny, actually.

The way you worded it, you made it sound like discussion was ALL about criticism, not just part of it.

It's your prerogative to live in a black-and-white world where the 2 options are win the Cup or complete failure. Obviously we all wish they could win the Cup every year. How likely do you think that is? Right. And knowing that, how reasonable is it to have such bipolar expectations?

Some of us "loser mentality" types would like to at least be able to take some modicum of solace from the fact that we still have a team that can contend for the Cup with elite players, especially a goalie like Rask.

What makes this place "the worst" is when an occasion for at least some small celebration of this team after a disappointing season brings out the negative nancies to point out stuff that goes without saying.

We know Rask hasn't won the Cup yet, but there's nothing wrong with taking a moment to be happy that we have an excellent goaltender as we continue on that journey.

Now, about TT. This is what you said:

I do agree with you about your point with the misconception that Thomas won the Cup for us, though. That was as much of a team championship run as I've ever seen in any sport. From the top of the roster on down, EVERYBODY contributed to that, even Kaberle. It irks me when people say that Thomas was the only reason they won. He was iconically good on that run, but we also scored a tone of timely, clutch goals and played great defense.

Now, I agree that he wasn't the only reason they won, and that it was a team effort, obviously. But it seems to me if Rask's team this year against the habs had similarly scored just a few timely, clutch goals and played great defence, we would have at least gone to the ECF and quite probably beat the Rangers to get to the Cup finals.

And if that had happened, we'd have a goalie who played well enough to get his team to the Cup final two years in a row. Would that be good enough for you?

Your Thomas comments suggest that you realize it's a team effort, no matter how well a goalie plays, yet on the other side of the coin you seem unwilling to allow Tuukka any accolades until he wins a Cup - which he can't do on his own.

The goalie is either the God or the Goat.

 

[David Krejci*]

Now, about TT. This is what you said:


Now, I agree that he wasn't the only reason they won, and that it was a team effort, obviously. But it seems to me if Rask's team this year against the habs had similarly scored just a few timely, clutch goals and played great defence, we would have at least gone to the ECF and quite probably beat the Rangers to get to the Cup finals.

And if that had happened, we'd have a goalie who played well enough to get his team to the Cup final two years in a row. Would that be good enough for you?

Your Thomas comments suggest that you realize it's a team effort, no matter how well a goalie plays, yet on the other side of the coin you seem unwilling to allow Tuukka any accolades until he wins a Cup - which he can't do on his own.

The goalie is either the God or the Goat.

The thing is though, you can play that game with any goalie, who has ever lost, ever. You can always say "if they scored a few timely clutch goals and played better D", but they didn't, and as the highest paid goalie in the league, it was Rask's job to stand on his head and steal those games, and he didn't.

Getting to the Cup and winning the Cup are two different things, so no, it wouldn't have been good enough. I am not questioning Rask's skill level. I believe he is very much skilled enough to win a Stanley Cup, and I have already said that I do inherently believe that he will eventually win one.

What I'm saying is, that until he does it, there will be that question of "Can he come up big when it matters most, and make the necessary saves to win?" and that is fair. It's not always the best goalie that wins, but it is always the goalie that makes enough saves at the right time, to keep his team in it. Will Rask ever do that? We know he can put up good numbers consistently, that isn't the issue. He has kept them in games, even stood on his head at some points. Honestly I don't even know what we're talking about here, because my main point from the jump is that until he wins it, there will always be the question of can he win it or not, which I don't think is arguable. He has the ability, but he also has what has become sort of a detailed history of giving up awful goals at awful times.

I'm not going to go goal by goal and break them all down, but that Pacioretty goal that was the back breaker in Game 6 (?), was an awful goal to give up. It was a partial breakaway, but with Chara being on one side of Pacioretty, Pacioretty's ONLY option was to go 5 hole, and Rask let him. It's little stuff like that, that adds up, that leads to losing games and series. I'm not asking him to pitch a shutout every game, but it seems like in every series, there are goals that he gives up that you look at and say "You have to have that if you want to win a Cup. You have to." The Weise goal in Game 3 was an awful goal to give up. I think Rask (and probably the Bruins in general) have a Montreal problem.

Obviously I know we aren't going to win the Cup every year. But I refuse to take solace in individual regular season awards. I don't care that someone can shut out a team in November, like I said. That stuff is worthless to me, and it's especially worthless to a team like the Bruins that can sleepwalk through the regular season and still end up with a 3 seed.

Maybe I just have too much of a player's mentality. I want us to be the best, and I feel like if you take any solace whatsoever in a season where you don't accomplish your ultimate goal, then you are selling yourself short. If that's too intense for some people as fans, I understand, but I am not going to change my expectations or goals for what I believe this team has the ability and character to achieve.