Confirmed Signing with Link: Vesey signs with the New York Rangers Part 2

[Riptide]

It's a dream come true to play for your favorite team.

Die-hard Bruins fan signing with the Rangers sounds kind of cowardly to me.
Is he afraid or something?
I would be kind of ashamed to do something like that.

It's also a dream come true for most kids to sign an NHL contract - wherever that is.

Maybe he's looking at this as trying to set himself up in the best possible situation to capitalize on his 2nd/3rd contract(s). While I don't think NYR is the place for that, neither do I think BOS is any better. Besides, his BFF Hayes plays there. Why not go sign somewhere and play with your buddy? And lastly, from what people tell me NYC is a city like no other.

 

[Riptide]

Ok, I'll bite, why is this "really dumb move" for the Rangers....?

Agreed. I think Vesey could have done better for a multitude of reasons, but this was a complete no brainer by the Rangers. A free 23 yr old prospect with size, skill and potential who's on an ELC. It doesn't get any easier to say yes to then that.

Maybe he flops or is only ever a middle 6 NHLer, or hell even just a bottom 6 guy. Free, cheap and young is still free, cheap and young.

 

[NYR713]

Agreed. I think Vesey could have done better for a multitude of reasons, but this was a complete no brainer by the Rangers. A free 23 yr old prospect with size, skill and potential who's on an ELC. It doesn't get any easier to say yes to then that.

Maybe he flops or is only ever a middle 6 NHLer, or hell even just a bottom 6 guy. Free, cheap and young is still free, cheap and young.

Exactly. Some people may have crazy expectations, but most fans I've communicated with are expecting a middle six 40-50 point ceiling guy after around 30pt rookie season. At 925k cap hit for two seasons, that's a win for NYR. If he can hit something like 15g-15a on an ELC, I'm happy. Anything above that is gravy and if it turns out he isn't an NHL player, they lost nothing.

 

[Levitate]

Wait, is there a debate going on regarding whether or not Lundqvist is a great goalie? The Rangers have their flaws, but those are all in front of the crease. The defense is aging and filled with some serious under performers who would be hard to pawn off. They are more or less stuck there unless they have some prospect explode into a top pairing role. The forward group is deep, but lacks elite goal scoring capability. They are basically the St Louis Blues without Vladimir Tarasenko up front.

Some people have been saying Lundqvist is declining because of last year. He's really not, the defense was just horrendous in front of him. A closer look at the stats pretty much bear that out.

As I said I don't really feel like the Rangers defense is aging so much as you just have the two guys making up way too much of the cap and taking up too many minutes. Klein is also over 30 but he plays well and is also moveable I believe. They really just need to find something to do with Girardi...we think McIlrath can probably handle a 2nd pairing role even if there are some growing pains and some searching around can probably result in a decent third pairing guy (maybe Clendening or Paliotta)

If we just pretend Girardi doesn't exist, and nothing else is done, I'd consider running something like this next season

McDonagh - Klein : not ideal with Klein on the top pairing but they do well enough together

Staal - Skjei : Skjei is left handed but has been being groomed to play the right. I'd at least give it a shot and see if he can help Staal's game and Staal has some life left in him to help steady a rookie.

Holden - McIlrath : Holden was overused in Colorado but should be just fine as a 3rd pairing guy and help McIlrath hold down a steady spot on the third pairing. McIlrath can actually move the puck pretty decently but needs more experience and not to have to jump into hard minutes right away.

Clendenning as the 7th

Girardi shot into space

It's not amazing or anything...again I'm not a huge fan of Klein on the top pairing but it's doable enough with McDonagh pulling him up. That defense would probably at least be pretty good, not great, but better.

More realistically we'll probably see Klein traded before Girardi since he has value, and Girardi in the 2nd or 3rd pairing spot, but maybe they get a young righty with potential back


edit: this is all to say, I don't think the Rangers D is as totally effed as some people think, it can be turned around into "decent" pretty quick, and a deep forward group filled with guys like (hopefully) Vesey who can put in 20 goals will make up for a lot of the lack of a real offensive defenseman. Enough for a cup run? Probably not unless Skjei really takes off on the right side along with McIlrath and Staal has a resurgence, but smart moves in the next year or so could make a difference and Lundqvist probably will still be good enough for another run

 

[Boruto]

When the "I don't understand why he picked NYR despite them getting younger, retooling, and working to reshape the defence within 1-2 years after having a few 100 point seasons" has been drawn out, the next salty complaint is vesey signing somewhere else other than his home town team? Why don't all UFAs just sign with their hometown teams then? What compelled Crosby toews Stamkos Benn to sign in American cities? Shameful! Ovi should have left for the KHL as soon as he could.

Cowardly for not signing in Boston despite better career prospects and more suitable lifestyle as Jimmy Vesey and his agents see it? Shame! Why don't the salty posters all quit their stable salary jobs and uproot their lifestyle to pursue their heartfelt passion that doesn't guarantee the same salary and requires a difficult adjustment? Jimmy vesey even considered Toronto, a Canadian city? Deport him on grounds of being cowardly and dishonourable!

 

[eco's bones]

Nice post... and I agree with most.

I think one thing that can completely change the outlook of NYR defense, that many outside the direct fans don't realize, is if AV wakes the **** up and comes to the realization that the guys he has on the back end cannot play strict man to man D in the defensive zone.

If he simplifies his defensive system, guys like Girardi and Staal are going to be much better. It's no coincidence that both immediately declined in play going to AV's system from Torts' system where they were all stars. Age and injuries have also played a part but nothing as big as the change in play style. Due to AV's system, there is also lack of structure on breakouts, which if simplified would also help these guys to not be turnover machines.

But, that's the big problems and there is a way to temper them if AV get's his head out of his ass. That is to be seen though. I can't imagine that nobody in the organization isn't in his ear telling him enough is enough in trying to fit the triangle piece in the square hole.

With the lack of traditional PMD's, McDonagh has to reach his full potential this season and be even more of a puck mover, no doubt. Klein is a solid top 4 guy who can move the puck and has an underrated shot, Skjei is going to turn heads this year as a McDonagh-lite type and has worked on the right side enough that they'll probably look to pair them up early to see how it works. McIlrath will hopefully step up and take his spot in the lineup because he looked perfectly capable of 3rd pairing minutes last season and was surprisingly mobile, more so than Girardi. Graves is another 6'4" 220 dman with a bomb of a shot and was an AHL all star as a rookie last season. He should get his cup of coffee this season too if there are injuries. No idea about Holden...haha

Good post. At least half the Rangers defense struggled mightily in AV's man on man defensive scheme. Part of the problem as well was the Rangers depth at forward wasn't nearly as good as the two years previous and it showed particularly in how they back checked and how they left points open way to much when killing penalties. Losing Carl Hagelin was a huge blow and Dominic Moore took a step back and it's why the Rangers brought in guys like Grabner, Jooris and Gerbe.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Ok, I'll bite, why is this "really dumb move" for the Rangers....?

because it doesn't address their needs. their money should be going to Dmen not another forward.

 

[Pfranz94]

because it doesn't address their needs. their money should be going to Dmen not another forward.

So, they should have ignored gaining a young player with a lot of potential without giving up any assets, just because their d-core was a bigger need??

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

because it doesn't address their needs. their money should be going to Dmen not another forward.

They can easily trade Vesey or Hayes (or any of their other young forward depth) for help on D


When there's a free asset available at any position you take it. How is this even a discussion..

 

[93LEAFS]

I can understand fans disappointment, but I think for most it'd be hard to turn down living in New York City with good money at the age of 23. Especially considering where he went to school, he probably also has a bunch of friends in the area. I wanted him on the Leafs as a free asset, but I can't get too mad over it.

 

[Levitate]

because it doesn't address their needs. their money should be going to Dmen not another forward.

They've still got plenty of cap space for help on D. The issue is more about who's available and can they make roster room.

 

[Shootertooter]

Ok, I'll bite, why is this "really dumb move" for the Rangers....?

Considering the Rangers haven't had a 1st rd pick in like 4 drafts, snagging Hayes 2 years ago and now Vesey is actually quite brilliant.....albeit lucky to recoup quality young, highly touted guys that they failed to be able to draft. So I get that anyone who is upset their team didn't land Vesey is displaying sour grapes.....but lets not kid ourselves, any team who was told Vesey had an interest in playing there.....foamed at the mouth at the prospect of signing him. At the very least, the Rangers got a free, highly touted prospect......any gm that could do it, would show interest or they would simply be bad at their job.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

because it doesn't address their needs. their money should be going to Dmen not another forward.

The money we have to pay him, $925k a year, is not going to limit us in any way. We can demote Glass and save $950k just like that.

If this was us signing Hudler for 4m AAV, I'd agree with you but when you have the chance to add Vesey, you do it. It's an entry level contract which you can bury in the AHL if necessary

 

[Beacon]

Up and coming teams are like "developing" countries: crap holes that think building a road or getting a top 5 draftee will make them great suddenly. Then over and over, it turns out that life in the greying Germany or France is better than in Brazil, India, Mozambique and all the other "developing" nations.

Prospects are 90% overrated by the fans. A player teams project to be middle-6 will get a lot of praise because he can dominate the AHL and the Juniors, so fans think they have a future first liner. A good Junior player will probably be a minor leaguer or a garbage NHLer, but for now fans project him as at least a good third liner. A guy drafted at #5 is as likely to be a scrub NHLer as a quality top-6 player, but first now fans are going bonkers over having a top-5 draftee who surely will turn around the team. By the time the truth becomes obvious, the fans move on to the next group of "future stars" who got drafted at #5 or scored 100 Junior points.

Ultimately a team is better off with McDonagh, Stepan, Zibanejad, Kreider, Miller than a half a dozen players that got drafted between #3 and #10, or who scored 100-115 junior points. But no fan ever wants to admit this.

That's why Vesey chose the Rangers: good core of young veterans, and with Nash, Glass and likely Staal heading out within a year, there will be plenty of cap room to sign or trade for a star.

 

[Beacon]

lol What??? Vesey is just a guy. He was drafted in the third round and is 23 entering the league.

Calling him a top prospect is what a rangers fan would value him at.

Elite prospect would be top 1-5 in the first round of a draft. top prospect would be 5-15 at best....

Nobody cares about the draft. Lundqvist was taken in the last round, Dipietro went first overall in the same draft, who became better? Lundqvist wasn't even the first goalie the Rangers drafted that year, taking Brandon Snee ahead of him. He wasn't the first member of his family: Joel Lundqvist was taken 4 rounds earlier. Hell, he wasn't even the top "Lundqvist" in the Rangers farm: Stefan Lundqvist was drafted much earlier a year before and was seen as a superior prospect.

As far as being 23, the Predators admitted that they wanted Vesey to turn pro at 21, even guaranteeing him an NHL spot. He wrote a big article saying he loves college and wants to finish it.

 

[Beacon]

People just think it's funny considering the Rangers have nothing for prospects (aside from Buch and Skjei, who probably wont be anything better than second liners/pairing dmen).

That's because people repeat dumb $--t, not knowing what they're talking.

Shesterkin was spectacular in Russia and in the WJC.

Graves is a 6-foot-5 230 pound monster who shot the puck at near NHL record speed, harder than all by 3 NHLers in history. Made the AHL All Stars Game as a 20 year old rookie. Can skate ridiculously well for a huge monster. But he's not a prospect because you never heard of him.

There are other good prospects that you are clueless about.

 

[Riptide]

because it doesn't address their needs. their money should be going to Dmen not another forward.

Doesn't matter - it's a 925k contract. Regardless of their needs, you still do not turn down a FA prospect like Vesey if he wants to sign with your club. I mean you could have the deepest LW prospect group in the league, and if he wants to sign with your team, you sign him - needs be damned.

It would be different if he was a FA looking to get paid a couple million or so. Then yeah, one could make an easy argument that perhaps that money could be better spent... but 925k? That's nothing - either at the NHL level or in the minors.

Again, I've been pretty vocal about how I think him going to NYR was a mistake on his part... but from NYR's POV, it's a slam dunk no brainier move that you do every single time it's an option. There's zero downside and potentially massive upside to signing him.

 

[Beacon]

Come on, Matt Gilroy won a Hobey Baker and played more than 200 NHL games and he really wasn't that good. I think Vesey is pretty talented and a lot of teams were in on him for that reason. You don't think Drury had a successful career?

Gilroy was 2 years older and at the end of his development years by the time he won the Hobey Baker. Vesey played the full season as a 22 year old when he won. He was the best NCAA player after Eichel as a 21 year old. Big difference.

 

[Rebels57]

That's because people repeat dumb $--t, not knowing what they're talking.

Shesterkin was spectacular in Russia and in the WJC.

Graves is a 6-foot-5 230 pound monster who shot the puck at near NHL record speed, harder than all by 3 NHLers in history. Made the AHL All Stars Game as a 20 year old rookie. Can skate ridiculously well for a huge monster. But he's not a prospect because you never heard of him.

There are other good prospects that you are clueless about.

All 30 teams in the NHL have a handful of good prospects. New York just happens to have less than almost every other team. That happens when you go all in for contending for a few years. Its nothing to be ashamed of, but it stings if you dont win a Cup.

 

[One Winged Angel]

All 30 teams in the NHL have a handful of good prospects. New York just happens to have less than almost every other team. That happens when you go all in for contending for a few years. Its nothing to be ashamed of, but it stings if you dont win a Cup.

No one is arguing that the Rangers farm system is amazing. What we're saying is that they have better prospects than what people are giving credit for.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Up and coming teams are like "developing" countries: crap holes that think building a road or getting a top 5 draftee will make them great suddenly. Then over and over, it turns out that life in the greying Germany or France is better than in Brazil, India, Mozambique and all the other "developing" nations.

Prospects are 90% overrated by the fans. A player teams project to be middle-6 will get a lot of praise because he can dominate the AHL and the Juniors, so fans think they have a future first liner. A good Junior player will probably be a minor leaguer or a garbage NHLer, but for now fans project him as at least a good third liner. A guy drafted at #5 is as likely to be a scrub NHLer as a quality top-6 player, but first now fans are going bonkers over having a top-5 draftee who surely will turn around the team. By the time the truth becomes obvious, the fans move on to the next group of "future stars" who got drafted at #5 or scored 100 Junior points.

Ultimately a team is better off with McDonagh, Stepan, Zibanejad, Kreider, Miller than a half a dozen players that got drafted between #3 and #10, or who scored 100-115 junior points. But no fan ever wants to admit this.

That's why Vesey chose the Rangers: good core of young veterans, and with Nash, Glass and likely Staal heading out within a year, there will be plenty of cap room to sign or trade for a star.

Interesting.

How does a team become "up and coming" in the NHL? It's not by having prospects. It's by having those prospects get to the NHL and do something. Remember 2007-2008? Chicago finished three points behind Nashville for the final playoff spot. But Toews and Kane produced, and you could see what was coming. Kane and Toews were rookies, and each put away 20 goals in their rookie seasons.

Reconcile that with a team Vesey turned down: Buffalo. No one is calling them up-and-coming because of Alex Nylander, Hudson Fasching, Justin Bailey, or Branden Guhle. They're up-and-coming because Jack Eichel, Sam Reinhart, and Rasmus Ristolainen (the players the Sabres tanked for) had pretty good seasons. Reinhart and Eichel put away 20 goals each as rookies.

Your theory, as described, is bunk. Up-and-coming teams are considered such because they're a lot like the 2007-2008 Blackhawks: the big name, top of the draft prospects you're trashing actually came in and produced.

 

[Tripod]

All 30 teams in the NHL have a handful of good prospects. New York just happens to have less than almost every other team. That happens when you go all in for contending for a few years. Its nothing to be ashamed of, but it stings if you dont win a Cup.

And Philly would know having little left after trying to win a cup with Pronger. But as we have also seen, it can turn around quickly.

Anyone saying this was a bad signing doesn't get it. It was a FREE, young, cheap asset they just added. It's ALWAYS worth it. And if they need D, having an extra F prospect allows them to make a trade from depth at F.

I expect him to be a middle 6 guy....30-50 point guy.

 

[Beacon]

Rangers were 7th in goals scored last year and had the 2nd highest shooting percentage. Where is this top5 offense talk coming from? They lost Brass and Yandle while getting Zib and Vesey.

If anything, the offense will take a step back between loss of talent and sky high shooting %

The words were "forward group" and not offense. They were #7 last year and #3 in GF the year before despite having ano defense without much mobility, relying overwhelmingly on forwards. Zibanejad is almost equal to Brassard, Vesey is better than Glass, ergo the forward group is even better. Top 5 easily. Now defense is a different story because of the loss of Yandle.

 

[Beacon]

Exactly. Some people may have crazy expectations, but most fans I've communicated with are expecting a middle six 40-50 point ceiling guy after around 30pt rookie season. At 925k cap hit for two seasons, that's a win for NYR. If he can hit something like 15g-15a on an ELC, I'm happy. Anything above that is gravy and if it turns out he isn't an NHL player, they lost nothing.

People try so hard to prove they are not overestimating him, they underestimate him. I read all the posts on Vesey and its like a competition between people on who estimates him less.

Hayes scored 45 points as a rookie and Vesey is a better prospect, so why is his career ceiling only 40 points? As a 23 year old, Kreider also scored 46 points and he was not viewed as a better prospect when he was in college than Vesey is now.

Why not Vesey? He can easily get 40-50 points as a rookie, 60-70 at his peak. Maybe he wont reach his ceiling, but thats his potential. Let's be very clear here: the odds of him being a top-6 guy in his prime are a hell of a lot better than the odds of him peaking as a role player.

 

[Riptide]

The words were "forward group" and not offense. They were #7 last year and #3 in GF the year before despite having ano defense without much mobility, relying overwhelmingly on forwards. Zibanejad is almost equal to Brassard, Vesey is better than Glass, ergo the forward group is even better. Top 5 easily. Now defense is a different story because of the loss of Yandle.

Rose colored glasses.