Confirmed with Link: Velluci parting ways

[DougieSmash]

I'll take Brindy over MV easily

 

[Peat]

@WreckingCrew is probably your best bet to answer. Most of us only watched a handful of regular season games, then the playoffs. But I want to say the organization was very much on the same page coaching wise, so Brindy and him are/were very similar: skating, skating and more skating with hard forechecking/backchecking based around puck possession/puck support. Vellucci might change it up a bit more to his liking in a new organization though.

That said, that seemed to be what Sullivan was all about during the back to back Cups, so I'm not sure how much Vellucci would change given the same players. Granted, some coaches have a short shelf life so who knows.

Thanks for the answers. That definitely sounds like Sullivan wants to play, so it's nice to have some continuity on that front, be it either in WBS or as his successor.

 

[A Star is Burns]

He may be a great coach, but I'm still not convinced we know that.

He won with a very talented roster as a coach of a team where the parent club spent years accumulating young talent.

A lot of his best success stories for call ups were overage nobodies like McKegg, Maenalanen, and Brown. Many of the prospects we called up have been forgettable at best. We have not been that impressed with Roy, Kuokkanen, Bishop, Fleury, Zykov, Saarela and maybe more when called up.

Again, I'm not saying he's bad. He won us a Calder Cup and he got results at that level even after a lot of turnover from one year to the next and even within the season. I think fostering a winning culture down there is great, but I'm not sure that's all him, and we'll see if some of the prospects he developed leave their mark on the big club.

 

[HisIceness]

Damn it! I could have handled him taking an NHL job but f*** this.

 

[tarheelhockey]

That’s... uh... not how I imagined this would play out.



Article essentially says Pittsburgh offers him a better opportunity for advancement (because RBA isn’t going anywhere).

 

[bleedgreen]

Wow.

 

[A Star is Burns]

So, pretty much what we speculated. Cool. Still not that worried about it.

 

[cptjeff]

No opportunity to move up here so he goes to be the AHL coach for a team where everyone expects the NHL head coach to lose his job within the calendar year, working for the the GM he's worked for the vast majority of his career. Yeah, not exactly a mystery.

 

[My Special Purpose]

It's like some people just *have* to see the worst in *every* *freakin'* *move* just to feel good about themselves. Personally, I'm pretty upset at how Vellucci has handled this, and I'm glad he moved on.

I don't care if Vellucci benefited from an overwhelmingly-talented team to win the AHL championship, or if he was the key to winning the title. It matters zero to me. It's the freakin' AHL. It's a developmental league for players and coaches. It's completely not the same as winning at the highest level. It's nice, but it's based on so many thousands of factors, it's really more random than anything. Regardless, Vellucci's star is on the rise. We all know this. But he had hit a ceiling in Carolina.

This is 100 percent, completely and totally about an employee wanting -- and deserving -- a promotion and that promotion not being available to him, so he looked elsewhere. If Vellucci wants to play himself as the victim, that's fine. But why would Carolina try to keep him around when they know they can't offer him the job he wants, and has probably earned? Did Vellucci need validation *that* badly? You were great. We love you. But you still can't have the head coaching job in Carolina, so what exactly do you want? Do you want us to offer you a big raise to stay in Charlotte, so you can turn it down because there's no chance for advancement? Do you really need to be validated in that way?

Obviously, the guy's goal is to be an NHL head coach. If he wanted to be in management, or scouting, he wouldn't have taken the job at WBS. Obviously, he wants to coach, and obviously, he wants to coach at the NHL level. That job will not be available in Carolina for a long time, so it was best for coach and organization to move on. Now, he'll probably get his shot. Win-win, no?

But Vellucci doesn't seem to want to play it that way. This could be a coach and organization looking for the best spot for the employee. But instead, he would rather throw DW under the bus. Why?

Are you guys trying to tell me that Vellucci would have stayed if we had offered him more money? An assistant coach position in the NHL? *Anything* else?

No. He was leaving this summer, no matter what. But he's grumpy because the Canes didn't fawn all over him and offer him the world -- save for the job he really wanted -- and give him the opportunity to reject them?

By all accounts, last summer the decision on the coaching gig in Carolina came down to Brindy and Vellucci. Brindy got the job, and Vellucci went down to Charlotte, like a good soldier. Lots of guys would have resigned then, after coming in second in a two-horse race to a guy with no coaching experience at any level. But Vellucci stuck around, partly out of loyalty and partly because part of him probably felt like we did, that Brindy may not be ready, and he may get a shot sooner than later. But now, it's clear he'll never get the job, so it's time to go.

Does this really feel to anyone like a co-coaching situation? Brindy got the NHL job and made the ECF. Vellucci stayed in the AHL and won the title. So let's make them Head/Associate Head Coach at the NHL level (which is truly a demotion for Brindy, who already made his feelings known about an assistant having to defer to the head coach). Does that sound like a good idea to anyone? That sounds like a good way to get one of Brindy or Vellucci to knife the other, to me.

These guys both wanted -- and competed for -- the same job. Brindy got it and was successful. It was time for Vellucci to move on. I don't get why this is hard.

I have no idea why Vellucci wouldn't just come out and say that. There's *no way* he wanted to go back to Charlotte. The last thing he feels is that he needs to prove anything else. After nearly getting an NHL job and then winning an AHL championship, he knows he deserves a shot. We all do. I don't know why he felt the need to twist the knife in the back of Dundon/Waddell when everybody knows he deserves a shot in the NHL.

Dundon/Waddell knew and they let him explore his options. They could have been dicks about this, but they weren't. I don't know why Vellucci feels the need to leave them hanging in the breeze on this, but IMO, it's on him, not Waddell/Dundon.

Basically, I can sum up Vellucci's actions since the end of the season like this: "I'm really confused that Carolina didn't try really hard to keep me, despite the fact that I don't really want to stay and everybody knows I'm going to have to leave the organization to get a head coaching gig in the NHL. I was really hoping to be able to reject them, but they took small bit of joy that away from me, so I'm going on the talk-show circuit to make me feel better."

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

A friend just told me this:

Listening to a radio cast, that guy from the 4th period, David Pagnotta said the canes AHL coach wanted more money and the canes said no, so he left.

Great reporting on the canes, as always.

 

[geehaad]

Maybe we’re all just a bit disappointed that he’s gone.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I’m a bit disappointed he’s gone, but also not overly upset. Coaches, even the best ones, never have a very long shelf life in the NHL. He got a chance to reunite with JR in s job that likely has a better path to the NHL so it makes perfect sense.

I do think Vellucci is a good coach though. In addition to his time in Charlotte, he’s had two very successful stints in Plymouth where IIRC, every one of his teams made the playoffs, almost always finished 1st or 2nd in his division and even won a championship. Doesn’t mean that will translate to the NHL, but I think he’s a good coach.

 

[emptyNedder]

Personally, I'm pretty upset at how Vellucci has handled this, and I'm glad he moved on.

I am disappointed that the organization didn't keep Vellucci. But "seeing the worst" to me is thinking Vellucci is somehow bad for honestly answering a question. The only quotes from Vellucci I have seen are in Sara's tweet. I don't subscribe to the Athletic, so if there is more that is damning of Vellucci, please share. Did Vellucci specifically mention "co-coaching?" What further quote indicates that he twisted a "knife in the back of Dundon/Waddell?"
Seriously, you wrote one of the more extensive posts. I would appreciate to see why you are this upset with Vellucci.

 

[sheriff bart]

One of the hurdles a well run professional sports franchise has to deal with is losing good coaches in the system. Success will do that. I see Vellucci moving as that exact thing.

I'm sure Vellucci wanted a hefty raise. I'm sure Vellucci wanted to be a NHL head coach.

 

[My Special Purpose]

This sucks. I feel like the best coach in the organization just left. I love what Rod did this year as much as any of you did, but I’m not convinced of the longevity.

I hope it is purely because of the opportunity to rise and not because he didn’t want to work for the new regime. Or didn’t like the paycheck.

Anyways, thank you for the good work and all the best in PA.

If you truly think he's the best coach in the org, then it should be obvious to you why he left. Even if he were the highest-paid coach in the AHL, if he's the best coach in the org, and his ceiling is AHL head coach, how long before this guy wants out?

I am disappointed that the organization didn't keep Vellucci. But "seeing the worst" to me is thinking Vellucci is somehow bad for honestly answering a question. The only quotes from Vellucci I have seen are in Sara's tweet. I don't subscribe to the Athletic, so if there is more that is damning of Vellucci, please share. Did Vellucci specifically mention "co-coaching?" What further quote indicates that he twisted a "knife in the back of Dundon/Waddell?"
Seriously, you wrote one of the more extensive posts. I would appreciate to see why you are this upset with Vellucci.

I am mad at Vellucci, and I'll tell you why. Last year in this space, a lot of folks wondered if Vellucci would be back after he lost out on the Canes job to Brind'Amour. He did come back, and that was cool, but virtually everyone involved with the team knew he was probably going to leave sooner than later. He was just too good a coach to stay in the AHL indefinitely. He's not exactly old at 52, but the trend is clearly toward younger coaches in the NHL, and the guy in front of him in Carolina is 48. So the writing was on the wall.

Then he won an AHL championship. And all through the season, the narrative was that we'll probably lose Vellucci. He was too good, and he'd never be a head coach here. Again, the writing was on the wall, in permanent marker.

So then we get to the offseason, knowing full well Vellucci is probably going to leave. We had accepted it, because we understood it. And honestly, nobody would begrudge him one bit if he were to switch organizations to try to get his shot in the NHL.

But instead of saying this -- which we all already knew -- on his way out the door, he intentionally made it seem that he was wronged by the organization for absolutely no reason, other than to paint himself as a victim and -- carefully and intentionally -- perpetuate the narrative that Dundon is cheap. Instead of standing up and saying "thanks" to the organization that helped make him who he is, and got him to this point where he'll very likely coach in the NHL very soon, he decided to leave the organization to twist in the wind, and it was totally unnecessary.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's everyone else who's seeing the worst in everything to make themselves feel better. Not you doing it by taking one interview answer and overreacting to it. And throwing someone else under the bus to push a narrative is exclusive to Vellucci, not like the team did the exact same thing to Hanifin and Lindholm, claiming 2 guys who signed fair value contracts wanted too much money instead of just admitting they wanted a shake up. And they definitely didn't trot out Erik Cole for the sole purpose of throwing Skinner under the bus at the time of his trade, for no reason other than to shift the focus of the fans.

And you have no idea that Vellucci wouldn't have stayed or not if offered a raise. For all we know, he wanted to stay and was hurt the organization barely bothered to negotiate with him. If Bales could leave the organization over money then there's no reason Vellucci couldn't as well.

 

[Chrispy]

He said nothing in the Athletic article about being "wronged" by the organization.

He said he didn't feel like the negotiations were going anywhere with Waddell.

“I talked to Don a few times and didn’t feel like it was really going anywhere, so I had my agent put some feelers out with other organizations and had a few opportunities and met with them. This one came about really quick and was too good of an opportunity to pass up.”

He talked about having been with Karmanos 27 years and that it was hard to leave. That's not a shot, that's him talking about human nature and his appreciation for the franchise in general.

If he wouldn't have been willing to hear offers to stay in Charlotte, he wouldn't have talked to Waddell a few times about the contract, especially after being given permission to talk to other teams.

I certainly would have given him a good raise to keep him in Charlotte and given him an out clause for an NHL job. The players called up after playing in Charlotte generally did well, and we saw improvement from the players in Charlotte over the course of the season. Getting good play out of the develping players is one of the best ways to save money on the NHL payroll. A good AHL coach will help with that.

 

[My Special Purpose]

And you have no idea that Vellucci wouldn't have stayed or not if offered a raise. For all we know, he wanted to stay and was hurt the organization barely bothered to negotiate with him. If Bales could leave the organization over money then there's no reason Vellucci couldn't as well.

That's just not true. We may not *know* what Vellucci wants by hearing it directly from his mouth, but we can draw accurate conclusions from his actions. He was up for the Canes HC job, so we know he wants to be an NHL head coach. We also know that he left for the same job, just with more opportunity for advancement, so that means he prefers coaching to management or scouting. All this makes it absolutely clear he left for the opportunity to be an NHL head coach, which he did not have here.

And Bales didn't leave over money. He had one year left on his contract. I don't know why he left, but it wasn't for money.

 

[bleedgreen]

That's just not true. We may not *know* what Vellucci wants by hearing it directly from his mouth, but we can draw accurate conclusions from his actions. He was up for the Canes HC job, so we know he wants to be an NHL head coach. We also know that he left for the same job, just with more opportunity for advancement, so that means he prefers coaching to management or scouting. All this makes it absolutely clear he left for the opportunity to be an NHL head coach, which he did not have here.

And Bales didn't leave over money. He had one year left on his contract. I don't know why he left, but it wasn't for money.

How do you know that? He had a year left and he had a clause to leave, I’m sure he had the same meeting with management that Vellucci just did. They touched base, and for whatever reason presumably off that meeting decided to use the clause. Could’ve been money, opportunity or both.

 

[My Special Purpose]

How do you know that? He had a year left and he had a clause to leave, I’m sure he had the same meeting with management that Vellucci just did. They touched base, and for whatever reason presumably off that meeting decided to use the clause. Could’ve been money, opportunity or both.

So your theory is that he had a year left on his contract, but asked for a raise anyhow. Then got pi$$ed he didn't get it and used the out clause to leave? If so, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Vellucci was different. His contract expired. If we give him a raise to bring him back to Charlotte, all we're doing is continuing to develop somebody else's next NHL head coach. Vellucci hit the absolute ceiling of what he could accomplish with Carolina. He's not getting Brindy's job. He's not getting Waddell's job. Time to move on.

 

[Chrispy]

The purpose of keeping Vellucci in Charlotte isn't to develop Vellucci.

 

[My Special Purpose]

The purpose of keeping Vellucci in Charlotte isn't to develop Vellucci.

But when he's hired away from Charlotte to be Pittsburgh's head coach, that's exactly the *result*. This way, we can find another AHL coach during the summer and not have to go digging through the scrap heap when Vellucci leaves in December.

 

[bleedgreen]

So your theory is that he had a year left on his contract, but asked for a raise anyhow. Then got pi$$ed he didn't get it and used the out clause to leave? If so, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Vellucci was different. His contract expired. If we give him a raise to bring him back to Charlotte, all we're doing is continuing to develop somebody else's next NHL head coach. Vellucci hit the absolute ceiling of what he could accomplish with Carolina. He's not getting Brindy's job. He's not getting Waddell's job. Time to move on.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Why did he ask for more money in this meeting? They probably just had a talk about what things were going to look like in the future, and he chose another direction. Peter’s had the same thing didn’t he? There’s lots of reasons Bales could’ve left for, but it was most likely the result of a conversation with the Canes about his future and thinking it would be better somewhere else.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

And Bales didn't leave over money. He had one year left on his contract. I don't know why he left, but it wasn't for money.

You may not know why he left, that doesn't mean that I don't.

 

[Stickpucker]

Too bad. Best of luck to you Velluci.