TSN: Vegas Trading Guidelines (For this season)

[thewave]

Been talking about this back in the TML boards for days. It certainly does change the dynamic in a huge way for everyone involved. No information on when they can start negotiations but I am going to assume its before the TDL.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Are the "I'll give you this if you don't take this guy" trades actually binding? I doubt McPhee would turn on a deal he made but wouldn't that make things interesting?

I fail to see why they cannot be binding when there are all kinds of considerations added to trades already, like a team getting a better pick if the other team reaches a specific round in the playoffs, or a team being entitled to a specific draft pick (best 2nd round pick for example). The NHL has a trade line that both teams submit the trade to.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are the "I'll give you this if you don't take this guy" trades actually binding? I doubt McPhee would turn on a deal he made but wouldn't that make things interesting?

They're not actually binding (because the trade will be for future considerations), but it would be a good way to get blacklisted by every agent and GM if you break them.

 

[airbus220]

Vegas should try to accumulate as many 1st and 2nd round picks as they can in the next 2-3 drafts. I'd give up a 2nd for them to agree to take Strome and not Pulock or CDH

Vegas might get much more for CDH than a 2nd.

 

[BurgoShark]

I'm just really curious to see how much those asset deals cost though. It wasn't a lot in the last few expansion drafts.

There were plenty of deals. Biggest payment was Sutton + 3rd + 7th for (though Sutton was an unknown middling prospect)

1998 - Nashville made 7 of these deals
1999 - Thrashers made 6 of these deals ... and one post draft trade to send a player back to his team
2000 - Columbus made 2 deals; Minnesota made 1 ... but all three of these deals were very significant.

There were also a handful of trades between other teams in the lead up each time.

1998
Calgary traded Jim Dowd to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select a goaltender from the Flames.
Chicago traded Sergei Krivokrasov to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Chris Terreri.
Los Angeles traded Kimmo Timonen and Jan Vopat to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Garry Galley.
Montreal traded Sebastien Bordeleau to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Peter Popovic.
Philadelphia traded Dominic Roussel and Jeff Staples to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Paul Coffey (Nashville also sent the Flyers a seventh-round pick (Cam Ondrik) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft).
San Jose traded Ville Peltonen to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Tony Granato (Nashville also sent the Sharks a fifth-round pick (Josh Blackburn) in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft).
St. Louis traded Darren Turcotte to Nashville after the Predators agreed not to select Jamie McLennan.

1999
Ottawa traded Damian Rhodes to Atlanta for agreeing to not select a goalie
Detroit traded Ulf Samuelsson to Atlanta for agreeing to not select Igor Larionov
New Jersey traded Sergei Vyshedkevich to Atlanta for agreeing to not select Sergei Brylin, Sergei Nemchinov, Vadim Sharifijanov or Brad Bombardir
Phoenix traded Scott Langkow to Atlanta ... not sure of the agreement
Buffalo traded Dean Sylvester to Atlanta ... not sure of the agreement
Calgary traded Andreas Karlsson to Atlanta ... not sure of the agreement

Boston left Peter Ferraro unprotected and he was claimed; they then traded Randy Robitaille to Atlanta for Peter Ferraro

2000

Columbus
San Jose traded Jan Caloun, a ninth-round pick (Martin Paroulek) in the 2000 NHL Entry Draft, and a conditional pick in the 2001 NHL Entry Draft to Columbus on June 11, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.
Buffalo traded Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Matt Davidson, and two fifth-round draft picks, one each in the 2000 (Tyler Kolarik) and 2001 (Andreas Jämtin) Entry Drafts, to Columbus on June 23, 2000, after the Blue Jackets agreed not to select Dominik Hasek or Martin Biron.

Minnesota
San Jose traded Andy Sutton, a seventh-round pick (Peter Bartoš) in the 2000 Entry Draft and a third-round pick (later traded to Columbus - (Aaron Johnson)) in the 2001 Entry Draft to Minnesota on June 11, 2000, for an eighth-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft after the Wild agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

 

[SI90]

Vegas might get much more for CDH than a 2nd.

For them not to pick him? Or for them to trade him?

 

[Soundgarden]

Anyone remember if selections like Krupp, Richter, and Iafrate were swing for the fences and hope they sign or were they calculated acquisitions based on draft pick compensation when they signed elsewhere as UFA's

I'm pretty sure they were 100% for the draft picks, ex. we got a 2nd Richter and Krupp when they didn't sign.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There were plenty ...

1998 - Nashville made 7 of these deals
1999 - Thrashers made 6 of these deals
2000 - Columbus made 2 deals; Minnesota made 1 ... but all three of these deals were very significant.

No, I said it didn't cost a lot in the last draft, not that there weren't a lot of those deals in the draft.

 

[uncleben]

Are the "I'll give you this if you don't take this guy" trades actually binding? I doubt McPhee would turn on a deal he made but wouldn't that make things interesting?

Even if they are not binding, it would put a horrible taste in all the other GMs mouths. Sure fire way to ruin negotiating power across the league.

 

[BurgoShark]

No, I said it didn't cost a lot in the last draft, not that there weren't a lot of those deals in the draft.

Sorry - you're right

This was probably the highest cost deal. Senators having to lose Rhodes for basically nothing was also a bit of a hit, but it was essentially just them choosing which goalie to lose - and it turned out OK since they went and got Lalime.

San Jose traded Andy Sutton, a seventh-round pick (Peter Bartoš) in the 2000 Entry Draft and a third-round pick (later traded to Columbus - (Aaron Johnson)) in the 2001 Entry Draft to Minnesota on June 11, 2000, for an eighth-round pick in the 2000 Entry Draft after the Wild agreed not to select Evgeni Nabokov.

 

[uncleben]

For them not to pick him? Or for them to trade him?

NYI might offer up a 2nd for VGK not to take him, but if they do take him, they might be able to trade him for a 2nd+

 

[sabresfan65]

If Vegas wants to draft an UFA Vegas has to sign him before the draft.

No they don't. They can during their window but they don't have too. They can select 10 players who are not under contract for the following year.

 

[izzy]

Hope they do something interesting

blues give rights to sobotka and a 4th if they take Lehtera

 

[HeroNtF]

Vegas picks up the phone to try and acquire the rights to Ilya Kovalchuk from the Devils.

thatd be a cool trade i would love to see, some thinking outside the box.

they could really stack up on draft picks

 

[thadd]

EDM trades St. Louis' 3rd Round Pick (From Yakupov) in return that LV selects Benoit Pouliot from Edmonton

That would be so awesome but if they don't go for Pouliot we will likely buy him out.

 

[airbus220]

For them not to pick him? Or for them to trade him?

For Vegas to trade CDH.

 

[airbus220]

No they don't. They can during their window but they don't have too. They can select 10 players who are not under contract for the following year.

Yes 10 without contract. RFA needs to get a qualifying offer from their teams to count against the cap. UFA might have to be signed to count against the cap.

 

[kasper11]

NYI might offer up a 2nd for VGK not to take him, but if they do take him, they might be able to trade him for a 2nd+

But, if LV turns down the 2nd, the Isles may decide to trade CDH to another team prior to the expansion draft. So, LV would end up picking the same player they would have from the Isles anyway and not having a 2nd round pick.

That's why it's important for teams to look at these kind of deals well before they need to submit their final protected lists. If (hypothetically speaking) the Isles believe that CDH is significantly more valuable than any other player they will leave unprotected, they will look to trade him if they can't reach a deal with LV to keep him.

 

[kasper11]

Are the "I'll give you this if you don't take this guy" trades actually binding? I doubt McPhee would turn on a deal he made but wouldn't that make things interesting?

Yes.

When teams submit a trade to the league, they need to submit all of the details of the trade. If there are future considerations, those are reported to the league. If there are conditions, those need to be spelled out as well.

The NHL can only approve a trade if it has all of the details; otherwise, teams could make deals to circumvent the salary cap or commit other violations.

Teams are not allowed to have under the table agreements that are not reported to the league as part of the trade.

Trades get reported to the public as for "future considerations", but the NHL knows exactly what the considerations are, and under what conditions they will occur.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I see them getting picks from other teams if say a team like Anaheim doesn't want to expose Rackell, Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen or Silfverberg.

That's the one I see happening if anything for that matter.

Say it could be Anaheim trading Shea Theodore/Nick Ritchie to Vegas for them not to select one of them.

 

[ScottyDont]

Vegas should try to accumulate as many 1st and 2nd round picks as they can in the next 2-3 drafts. I'd give up a 2nd for them to agree to take Strome and not Pulock or CDH

I think its a fine line between putting together a competitive team soon versus setting up their future. Considering the failure rate of prospects, proven NHL level players is probably the safer bet.

 

[BonMorrison]

This is super exciting, I hope we see some trades like this before the off-season.

 

[Curufinwe]

I see them getting picks from other teams if say a team like Anaheim doesn't want to expose Rackell, Lindholm, Vatanen or Klingberg.

That's the one I see happening if anything for that matter.

Huh? Klingberg is a Dallas player.

 

[derriko]

I think its a fine line between putting together a competitive team soon versus setting up their future. Considering the failure rate of prospects, proven NHL level players is probably the safer bet.

I would say a majority, including me on the Vegas board want to build for the future.

The offensive talent is just not going to be there for a winning team.

If I were to hazard a guess if they took the best players they could, they would probably end up with a top 15 defense, a bottom 5-10 offense, and somewhere in the middle in the net. Not a winning formula. It would be a struggle to make the playoffs as an 8th seed and then a first round exit if they did.

 

[WesMcCauley]

EDM trades St. Louis' 3rd Round Pick (From Yakupov) in return that LV selects Benoit Pouliot from Edmonton

See what Carolina got for taking one year of Bickell from Chicago. Dont see a reason for Vegas to take Pouliot for a 3rd. Its meaningless for Vegas to take mediocre old players for 3rd rounders. Obviously a better expansion pick to take from Edm than Pouliot and a 3rd.
I do think Vegas should stack up on draft picks though. Get as many picks as you can in the first 3 rounds and start building the team from the draft right away.