Seravalli: Vegas Knights are now in the market for a big time top 6 forward and more ( Guentzel)

Poppy Whoa Sonnet

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I feel like the perceived problem goes away if you just say the team you ice for each playoff game has to be cap compliant.

Removing waivers and other restrictions to make it easier to do roster moves for the playoffs still makes sense, but icing a team that is over the cap in any situation seems... Well.... Not in the spirit of the rule, no?
You even give teams wiggle room, as the scratches don't count against the cap like they do in the regular season.

It's lenient, allows teams to manage genuine injuries and still hopefully get them back into the lineup, but prevents abuse. Good proposal imo.
 
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Detroit Knights

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Vegas doesn’t wait around for much, but they will likely wait for an update on Stone. If they already have it, and it’s not good news, you can pencil in a Guentzel, Buchnevich or another player nobody’s thinking about.

They have drafted very well, and have some prospects who are about ready, who they’ll deal in the right moves.

They’re a lot like Boston but have more ammunition to make deals. They also have some extra bottom 6 players, who they can turn into a Top 6, PP player.

Still wouldn’t count them out of the Hanifin sweepstakes, but if they do make that deal, expect Sharangovich, Pospisil or Mangiapane to head to Vegas with him.

They’ll also be calling on David Perron. Still don’t buy Detroit won’t be moving him, as Kaplan reported. They’ve been talking to teams since December on him. If the right deal is there, they’ll do it. Vegas has those high paced bottom 6 players Detroit would like one of, before the deadline. One who plays at a high pace. Perron doesn’t fit that role, and he’s dropped on their PP/Top 6 depth chart. It’s not just Kane. Fabbri is having a really good season, and Rasmussen is taking Perron’s Top 6 minutes, as well.

They’ll move him if they can swap him for one of those type players, and Vegas would welcome Perron back in a heartbeat.

Still think there’s a great chance Perron ends up in Boston, Vegas or with the Rangers. Even if Detroit looks to be playing one of those teams in the 1st Round.
Here's a base for a trade for you then because I don't want perron at all and haven't wanted him for awhile now (last year when we got him):

perron for stephenson

This is for a base, so who adds and how much?
 

Petes2424

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Here's a base for a trade for you then because I don't want perron at all and haven't wanted him for awhile now (last year when we got him):

perron for stephenson

This is for a base, so who adds and how much?
Think Detroit would jump on that, and add a future without blinking. Knights just can’t afford to move him though.. He’s way too important for them. Especially with Eichel’s injury history.

So yea, the Wings would have to add, if they were willing to trade him. He’s Compher with another gear, and better hands. He’d end up being their 2C over Compher, for the rest of the season.

Now, would Vegas take Copp and Perron for him? That could interest them, if somehow they can do something with retention on Copp. It would keep the Knights deep up the middle for the next 3-4 years, and they’d get Perron for this year. They’d have to depend on Karlsson at 2C, but that’s something that could work for them….. IF they could make Copp’s contract work. Detroit wouldn’t lose anything shifting Compher to 3C, and their Top 6 would be more dangerous this season.

I know people on here like to bag on Copp, but he’s a really good hockey player, who can move up and down a lineup. Right now, he’s settled back into what he does best though, as a really good 3C who kills penalties. He’s just overpaid…

Stephenson is gonna be really tough for Vegas to re-sign, but I just don’t see them trading him this year, unless they did get someone to replace him (with term) at a decent AAV. The man deserves to, and needs to be paid, after making what he has been for years. Nobody can blame him for getting every dollar he can this summer. They have to resign Marchessault though as well, so my guess is, Stephenson walks in July, but they need him this season.

Super underrated player.
 

Detroit Knights

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Think Detroit would jump on that, and add a future without blinking. Knights just can’t afford to move him though.. He’s way too important for them. Especially with Eichel’s injury history.

So yea, the Wings would have to add, if they were willing to trade him. He’s Compher with another gear, and better hands. He’d end up being their 2C over Compher, for the rest of the season.

Now, would Vegas take Copp and Perron for him? That could interest them, if somehow they can do something with retention on Copp. It would keep the Knights deep up the middle for the next 3-4 years, and they’d get Perron for this year. They’d have to depend on Karlsson at 2C, but that’s something that could work for them….. IF they could make Copp’s contract work. Detroit wouldn’t lose anything shifting Compher to 3C, and their Top 6 would be more dangerous this season.

I know people on here like to bag on Copp, but he’s a really good hockey player, who can move up and down a lineup. Right now, he’s settled back into what he does best though, as a really good 3C who kills penalties. He’s just overpaid…

Stephenson is gonna be really tough for Vegas to re-sign, but I just don’t see them trading him this year, unless they did get someone to replace him (with term) at a decent AAV. The man deserves to, and needs to be paid, after making what he has been for years. Nobody can blame him for getting every dollar he can this summer. They have to resign Marchessault though as well, so my guess is, Stephenson walks in July, but they need him this season.

Super underrated player.
I actually like copp, but he just was brought in to a spot where most detroit fans (that don't like him that much) thought he would produce a lot of points. There was a time where we thought we were going to go after trochek, but we got copp instead. I wanted Trochek more than copp, partly i'll admit, because he is a red wing killer and just non-stop scoring against us while he was with florida and has since continued that trend on the rangers.

Copp if a very good pker, even though he is pretty slow sometimes. copp and compher on the pk is quite amazing to watch tbh, they always seem to play in the right positions off of each other. But with all that being said..

Stephenson can play pk. He is also a pretty good center. I am good with him being 2c if that means he would do better in that position than compher; however, I would move compher to larkin's wing as they have shown pretty good chemistry before. If it doesn't work out then throw him out there with stephenson or 3c. Versatility is key with Yzerman, it seems, and subtracting copp and perron for stephenson would actually be adding much more versatility than most would think.

I also want to move on from copp because he isn't a 5+ mil player anymore (or ever i suppose, depends on who you ask?). His cap hit will be a terrible consequence for future signings/resignings (pettersson anyone?). So, if it were me, I would perfectly fine with trading copp + perron + 3rd round pick for Stephenson with no retention on copp. If that doesn't do it, I wouldn't mind adding another later round pick like 4th or 5th. Hell, I'd probably add a condition that the 3rd + 4th or 5th would all turn into one 2nd rounder if stephenson resigns with us.

I wouldn't mind offering a 4 x 5 to stephenson because of his experience, FO% history, and speed.
 
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Petes2424

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Name one.
Seriously?? They’ve drafted extremely well for the amount of high picks they’ve traded away, and with how low they’ve drafted.

Brisson, Korczak, Patera, Chayka, Demec, Brabanek and Cormier are all close, and some have already had NHL stretches.. They also have several others who are 2 and 3 seasons away from competing for NHL time.. Players like Sapovaliv, Cataford, Sedoff, Karki, Lindbom, Hallum, Edstrom, Gustafson and Hemmerling. They have a couple of other goalies as well.

It would be tough to find a team, who’s been this good over the last 5-6 years, who’s drafted as many prospects who have a legit chance to contribute in the NHL.

They may not have Grade A status, but it’s quality depth. More than enough to help them with deadline deals. Teams will ask for Cataford and Sapovaliv to be included in several potential deals. For example, Howden and Cataford could get them a David Perron.

It’s not all about the prospects who’s names get thrown around on this site. Most of those guys are never included in deadline deals. More often, it’s players like Chayka, Karki, Sapovaliv and Cataford, who are traded in deadline deals.

The Knights have plenty of ammunition this deadline.
 
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TheBeard

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Seriously?? They’ve drafted extremely well for the amount of high picks they’ve traded away, and with how low they’ve drafted.

Brisson, Korczak, Patera, Chayka, Demec, Brabanek and Cormier are all close, and some have already had NHL stretches.. They also have several others who are 2 and 3 seasons away from competing for NHL time.. Players like Sapovaliv, Cataford, Sedoff, Karki, Lindbom, Hallum, Edstrom, Gustafson and Hemmerling. They have a couple of other goalies as well.

It would be tough to find a team, who’s been this good over the last 5-6 years, who’s drafted as many prospects who have a legit chance to contribute in the NHL.

They may not have Grade A status, but it’s quality depth. More than enough to help them with deadline deals. Teams will ask for Cataford and Sapovaliv to be included in several potential deals. For example, Howden and Cataford could get them a David Perron.

It’s not all about the prospects who’s names get thrown around on this site. Most of those guys are never included in deadline deals. More often, it’s players like Chayka, Karki, Sapovaliv and Cataford, who are traded in deadline deals.

The Knights have plenty of ammunition this deadline.
They've been around for 7 years and have one decent draft pick (Hague). Cotter, Doro, Briton, Chakya, Demec.... none of them have shown anything more than being JAG at best. They've drafted terribly. Guys like Cormier are Korczak are nothing special in the least.

Your line about finding a team who's drafted as many prospects is one of the most laughable thing I've ever read considering their depth has been tested and they've basically gotten nothing from their drafted players. You either don't know what you're talking about or you're one of those insufferable Knights fans who think they do nothing but find future Hall Of Famers.

There's a reason their farm system has been voted in or near the bottom five of the NHL.
 

The Duck Knight

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They've been around for 7 years and have one decent draft pick (Hague). Cotter, Doro, Briton, Chakya, Demec.... none of them have shown anything more than being JAG at best. They've drafted terribly. Guys like Cormier are Korczak are nothing special in the least.

Your line about finding a team who's drafted as many prospects is one of the most laughable thing I've ever read considering their depth has been tested and they've basically gotten nothing from their drafted players. You either don't know what you're talking about or you're one of those insufferable Knights fans who think they do nothing but find future Hall Of Famers.

There's a reason their farm system has been voted in or near the bottom five of the NHL.

You're not wrong that most of those guys are nothing special, but you have no clue on Korczak. He's a top 4 RD on pretty much any team in the league not named Vegas.

Could you show me a single instance of this? For even just 1 prospect?
 

TheBeard

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You're not wrong that most of those guys are nothing special, but you have no clue on Korczak. He's a top 4 RD on pretty much any team in the league not named Vegas.

Could you show me a single instance of this? For even just 1 prospect?
An instance of what? Oh, the bolded part? Man I’ve had numerous conversations here and on twitter about how the team has an excellent future because guys like Doro and Cotter are future top-line players and that the goalie in the SEL is on pace to be an all-star. It’s naive and mostly stems from a lack of experience. They see someone drafted in the 5th round scoring goals in the OHL and immediately assume they’re gonna excel in the NhL.
 

Ainsy01

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Guentzel to Vegas for 2024 First, 2025 Second and Zach Dean

Pleeasseeee if you think Eichel wont have a "setback" and just take the extra few weeks off before the playoffs then i have sand to sell you at the beach
Eichel will be back now that Stone is off. Timing was impeccable. They wont need more than 9.5 million at the TDL
 

Detroit Knights

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Seriously?? They’ve drafted extremely well for the amount of high picks they’ve traded away, and with how low they’ve drafted.

Brisson, Korczak, Patera, Chayka, Demec, Brabanek and Cormier are all close, and some have already had NHL stretches.. They also have several others who are 2 and 3 seasons away from competing for NHL time.. Players like Sapovaliv, Cataford, Sedoff, Karki, Lindbom, Hallum, Edstrom, Gustafson and Hemmerling. They have a couple of other goalies as well.

It would be tough to find a team, who’s been this good over the last 5-6 years, who’s drafted as many prospects who have a legit chance to contribute in the NHL.

They may not have Grade A status, but it’s quality depth. More than enough to help them with deadline deals. Teams will ask for Cataford and Sapovaliv to be included in several potential deals. For example, Howden and Cataford could get them a David Perron.

It’s not all about the prospects who’s names get thrown around on this site. Most of those guys are never included in deadline deals. More often, it’s players like Chayka, Karki, Sapovaliv and Cataford, who are traded in deadline deals.

The Knights have plenty of ammunition this deadline.
*cough lgrw cough*
 

Vegan Knight

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Guentzel to Vegas for 2024 First, 2025 Second and Zach Dean


Eichel will be back now that Stone is off. Timing was impeccable. They wont need more than 9.5 million at the TDL

Yeah, they went in the back and lacerated Stone's spleen. And they did it two weeks before the time Eichel was always due back so they could play multiple games without both. Impeccably timed.
 

Petes2424

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They've been around for 7 years and have one decent draft pick (Hague). Cotter, Doro, Briton, Chakya, Demec.... none of them have shown anything more than being JAG at best. They've drafted terribly. Guys like Cormier are Korczak are nothing special in the least.

Your line about finding a team who's drafted as many prospects is one of the most laughable thing I've ever read considering their depth has been tested and they've basically gotten nothing from their drafted players. You either don't know what you're talking about or you're one of those insufferable Knights fans who think they do nothing but find future Hall Of Famers.

There's a reason their farm system has been voted in or near the bottom five of the NHL.
Not sure what to tell you, if you blindly disagree. Because of ratings?? Who’s ratings? You do understand those ratings are basically wrapped around how many teams have the most recent 1st and 2nd Round picks, no?

Drafting and development goes much further than some random ratings. Ask Arizona, Buffalo and Ottawa how they feel about being ranked so high for the last 20 years??

If you don’t think those players I mentioned are NHL prospects, not sure what you’re looking at. They were rated just like this last year, and traded one for Barbashev. Some have already played NHL games, and are performing well in the AHL.

Vegas isn’t rated high overall, because they don’t have a bunch of 1st and 2nd round picks in recent years. That's where ratings come from. They have several that will play in the NHL though, that teams will be interested in. People who do this stuff for a living don’t pay attention to ratings on websites. Many teams don’t even have a Chayka or Korczak in their system.

Where they’ve been drafting, those are 4-6 year development players. They’re right on schedule. Not every player is playing in the NHL in 2 years. And certainly, if you look at the prospects traded every deadline, they’re much closer to those players I mentioned, than the names people throw around on this site.

Guarantee you, we see more prospects, most people know nothing about, traded this deadline, than prospects they know.. Go back and look at threads like the Meier trade last year. Look at what people were proposing, and what was actually traded, and how many posters were saying, they had no idea who they were, or didn’t like the deal because they weren’t top known prospects.

If you wanna revisit this post in 3-4 years, I’ll be glad to admit I was wrong, if many of those prospects aren’t playing in the NHL. Will you do the same?
 

HanSolo

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They've been around for 7 years and have one decent draft pick (Hague). Cotter, Doro, Briton, Chakya, Demec.... none of them have shown anything more than being JAG at best. They've drafted terribly. Guys like Cormier are Korczak are nothing special in the least.

Your line about finding a team who's drafted as many prospects is one of the most laughable thing I've ever read considering their depth has been tested and they've basically gotten nothing from their drafted players. You either don't know what you're talking about or you're one of those insufferable Knights fans who think they do nothing but find future Hall Of Famers.

There's a reason their farm system has been voted in or near the bottom five of the NHL.

Nick Suzuki. And while I agree that generally their drafting hasn't been the best, since 2017 they drafted higher than 29th overall once (two years they didn't even have a first rounder) and Peyton Krebs was always going to be a gamble, but at least he's an NHL regular still.

When your best selections are between 29th and 60th overall, the odds are kinda stacked against you.

But I also don't believe that Brisson, Patera, Chayka, Demec, Brabanek and Cormier are on track to be anything special. Brisson could maybe be a Nic Roy-esque secondary scorer but I don't see anything special from the rest. Ivan Morozov was supposed to be a gem of a find but he's been awful in North America. Not that his name was brought up, but I don't have high hopes for Vegas' prospect pool.
 

TheBeard

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But I also don't believe that Brisson, Patera, Chayka, Demec, Brabanek and Cormier are on track to be anything special. Brisson could maybe be a Nic Roy-esque secondary scorer but I don't see anything special from the rest. Ivan Morozov was supposed to be a gem of a find but he's been awful in North America. Not that his name was brought up, but I don't have high hopes for Vegas' prospect pool.
Thank you for saying that. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having a shitty prospect pool when you’re consistently drafting high and trading away the better potential for win-now guys. It happens to every team but it seems some Vegas fans want to have their cake and eat it too. As if they can’t handle the potential down the road of not having the same talent pool simply because they sacrificed that to win now. Usually a bad prospect pool means having good, consistent success for a long stretch.

Not sure what to tell you, if you blindly disagree. Because of ratings?? Whose ratings? You do understand those ratings are basically wrapped around how many teams have the most recent 1st and 2nd Round picks, no?
Yeah. That’s not true. A lot of it is also contingent on how the players in the system have developed since being drafted.
 

TheBeard

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Guarantee you, we see more prospects, most people know nothing about, traded this deadline, than prospects they know.. Go back and look at threads like the Meier trade last year. Look at what people were proposing, and what was actually traded, and how many posters were saying, they had no idea who they were, or didn’t like the deal because they weren’t top known prospects.
The return for SJ was centered around a former first round pick in 2020, a first and potentially an additional first. Zetterlund was already an established NhLer. If Vegas wants to go the same route it would essentially be two firsts, Brisson and Dorofeyev.
 

GreeningOil

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Vegas pretty much locked into a playoff spot. I dont think they really care about positioning or who they play in round 1 so ltir-ing Stone and Eichel is shady but smart. They open up 15 mil in cap space, and have their 2 best players rested and ready for playoffs by game 1.
Just your average, everyday blatant cheating.

Straight up, the Salary cap must exist in the playoffs. If your rosters players regular season salaries go over the cap?

Take people out until the cap is compliant. No 100M rosters because of unethical medical providers willing to extend periods of “healing” in order to circumvent a silly rule
 

Captain Mountain

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They've been around for 7 years and have one decent draft pick (Hague). Cotter, Doro, Briton, Chakya, Demec.... none of them have shown anything more than being JAG at best. They've drafted terribly. Guys like Cormier are Korczak are nothing special in the least.

Your line about finding a team who's drafted as many prospects is one of the most laughable thing I've ever read considering their depth has been tested and they've basically gotten nothing from their drafted players. You either don't know what you're talking about or you're one of those insufferable Knights fans who think they do nothing but find future Hall Of Famers.

There's a reason their farm system has been voted in or near the bottom five of the NHL.

I'd argue Nick Suzuki was a pretty good pick.

And they've frankly drafted well enough for their prospects to be deemed good trade pieces. They don't win the cup if other teams don't like Brannstrom and Krebs. The highest they've picked since expansion other than Krebs at 17th is 29th. Getting guys like Korczak is about what you expect from teams in that situation.
 

Lacaar

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Jan 25, 2012
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I feel like the perceived problem goes away if you just say the team you ice for each playoff game has to be cap compliant.

Removing waivers and other restrictions to make it easier to do roster moves for the playoffs still makes sense, but icing a team that is over the cap in any situation seems... Well.... Not in the spirit of the rule, no?

I disagree. I'm not saying it's not better as it's a small step better. But it won't stop what we see happening. Teams with dead cap players will just get a "Get out of jail free card".

It would in effect allow teams to bury poor contracts come playoff time for better ones.

Player X makes 10 mill on his 8 year deal and is 40 years old in year 8. He's cooked and barely even plays.

Meanwhile player Y at 12 million goes on LTIR in a Kucherov/Stone type situation (will miracle heal in time for game 1)

Now they trade for player Z at 11 million.

They are cap compliant with player X and Z on the roster so long as Y is on LTIR.

Playoffs day 1 comes.
Player Y comes off LTIR, player X is sat to be cap compliant, player Z is plays.

You could even go through the exercise with player X just getting magically hurt and going to Robidas island as well.

Would be interesting to see and I do agree it's better than what's currently happening. But my point is they'll just find ways to get around it as well.
 

Chips

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Let me guess, Eichel and Stone are healthy for game one of the playoffs.
In all honestly I think it’s yes and no


The NHL can’t force medical decisions on players, and hockey historically has fostered a culture of expecting players to play injured.


Being back game 1 isn’t necessarily “healthy” (might be nowhere near an ethical doctors recommendation)

eg Kucherov that year most certainly was not healthy. If you look a huge percentage of his points were on the power play where he didn’t have to move much. I remember he definitely looked hampered skating around at even strength and some teams targeted him


Same thing with Stone last year (and previous years whether the team used LTIR or not). He was definitely not 100%, and it feels likes he’s been injured most recent playoffs. The Oilers were clearly targeting his back with constant hard cross checks. Like more than usual, it was pretty obvious. He had better games and worse games


It’s a gray area hockeys created. I don’t believe for one second that he’s not legit injured or that he wasn’t in the past, same with Kucherov


People love their conspiracies but “the league” is literally the owners. It’s not like “the league” wouldn’t check if players are seriously injured when on IR and especially LTIR. They literally always check, obviously other owners don’t want teams cheating otherwise every team would be doing it. I remember it was reported they checked on Kucherov



Pretty much any “fix” of the “issue” would just create other issues with the trade deadline or require fundamentally changing the finance of contracts.

Ultimately the rules are the same for every team imo. Every team likely has injured players, but only well managed teams can afford to lose a star, still make the playoffs and have assets to add (or in the Bolts case, they were loaded with home grown talent who simply needed raises. They didn’t gain 18 mil in new talent)

I personally like that and I’m not a fan of either team lol
 

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