Vegas Could Have Had Such A Better Team

[Revelation]

I guess nobody will ever understand that DUMBA AND VATANEN WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED IF THOSE DEALS TO PROTECT THEM WERE NOT MADE

So you pinky swear on the deal with your right but cross your fingers on your left and then take them anyway.

Half the players McPhee took WITHOUT INCENTIVE are buyout/waiver wire fodder.

 

[me2]

I guess nobody will ever understand that DUMBA AND VATANEN WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED IF THOSE DEALS TO PROTECT THEM WERE NOT MADE

That boy looks hot. Why isn't he playing in that puddle to cool down?

 

[Kingsfan1]

This is really simple, let me break it down:

Vegas: Hey, Minny, we are gonna take Dumba unless you offer us something

Minny: I'll give you Tuch and Haula, if that's not enough, I will just trade Dumba to someone else so you can't take him, take it or leave it

Two possible results:

Vegas says no, Minny trades Dumba away and Vegas does not get Dumba.

OR

Vegas says yes, and here we are.

Either way, Vegas doesn't get Dumba.

Apply this same scenario to any other high value player you think vegas could have gotten had they not made a deal.

While I agree with you , it's not that easy because other teams would be hesitant on losing some of their own players .

 

[PAZ]

The deal was made before the freeze according to Fletcher. The Wild were rumored on Friday to be close on deals to trade BOTH Scandella and Brodin, that would have allowed the Wild to PROTECT Dumba.

The Wild, then with two deals on the table he was willing to accept if Vegas was unwilling to deal, talked to GMGM and laid the situation out for him... deal on Fletcher's terms and get two quality assets... a young proven 3rd line center who still has top 6 potential if he could get the opportunity and a top prospect, or don't and get to choose from a much lesser talented pool and get only 1 asset of lesser overall value.

Dumba would not have been available if there was no deal... not even Scandella or Brodin.

Vegas did what was best for THEM by dealing with the Wild.

They really didn't because Staal is there. How many teams are looking for a #1-2C if they can afford him, which they can because he has 3.5 mil cap hit? Just off the top of my head: St. Louis, Nashville, Montreal, NYI, Chicago. Then you still have other teams like Pittsburgh, San Jose, etc. who are looking to add center depth as well. This wouldn't have to be a deadline deal, Staal could be traded right away which increases his value as well.

Worst case scenario is just below the package LV received from Minnesota. We aren't even talking about the potential players the other team would have to expose.

 

[Fantomas]

Vegas is doing the right thing. They will really suck next year and then get a high pick in 2018, a potential star player in an excellent and deep draft. And they are stacking up on draft picks in this year's draft with the long-term future in mind.

Picking the best team for today is what a fool would do.

 

[TaLoN]

They really didn't because Staal is there. How many teams are looking for a #1-2C if they can afford him, which they can because he has 3.5 mil cap hit? Just off the top of my head: St. Louis, Nashville, Montreal, NYI, Chicago. Then you still have other teams like Pittsburgh, San Jose, etc. who are looking to add center depth as well. This wouldn't have to be a deadline deal, Staal could be traded right away which increases his value as well.

Worst case scenario is just below the package LV received from Minnesota. We aren't even talking about the potential players the other team would have to expose.

The Wild were also in talks with Boston to trade Pominville though too, getting Beleskey... Staal wouldn't have been exposed either had Vegas not dealt. Scandella and Brodin would have been traded, along with Pominville.

The exposed list would have only had Haula, Olofsson, Folin and Beleskey for note worthy talent.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Vegas could certainly have had a much better team.

Why say more than that. No explanations are needed. Look at the result.

Pick after pick he got hosed.

Thorburn is one of the worst examples. A year to dissect one of the best prospect pools in the league & the best you could do was move up 11 positions in the first round and pick up a 3rd rounder in 2019?

Keeping in mind the value associated with moving up from 24 to 13 is equal to a 3rd round pick. There's some rather easy math to do.

$500 million in expansion fees is good for 60 3rd round picks.

McPhee's an idiot. Las Vegas got hosed.

There's about to be a second failure in the desert.

 

[President of Hockey]

McPhee had to balance between putting together a decent team for the next season and getting extra futures for accepting limitations on his choices.

I think he got the balance wrong too much in favor of the futures. As much as some of his trades individually make sense, in sum they have led to icing a subpar team next year. And while it is certainly true to say "if he had not made the deal with Minny they would have traded Dumba" this logic only goes as far as there are available spots on the protection lists of the 30 teams. At some point, the teams would no longer find trade partners and have to expose players they do not want to loose for nothing.

The question is if a team assembled of the BPAs in this case is better or worse than the team VGK has now + the draft picks. I think that's up for debate but I am leaning towards that this would be a better team not only short term (which should be pretty clear to anyone) but also long term.

If I were a STH, I'd be pretty pisses right now to see a team of Chris Thorburns and Luca Sbisas in the inaugural season although (unlike in some of the past expansion drafts) this was absolutely unnecessary in the Vegas case.

 

[wonton15]

Vegas is doing the right thing. They will really suck next year and then get a high pick in 2018, a potential star player in an excellent and deep draft. And they are stacking up on draft picks in this year's draft with the long-term future in mind.

Picking the best team for today is what a fool would do.

This. There's no point in competing right away, especially when there are two potential franchise (?) players in the upcoming draft. There is more to it than winning as many games as they can as soon as they enter the league.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Nah, the Golden Knights are probably going to start off bad. I don't think they'll be bad enough to go last place though. Already better than Arizona and Colorado.

 

[nmbr_24]

The deal was made before the freeze according to Fletcher. The Wild were rumored on Friday to be close on deals to trade BOTH Scandella and Brodin, that would have allowed the Wild to PROTECT Dumba.

The Wild, then with two deals on the table he was willing to accept if Vegas was unwilling to deal, talked to GMGM and laid the situation out for him... deal on Fletcher's terms and get two quality assets... a young proven 3rd line center who still has top 6 potential if he could get the opportunity and a top prospect, or don't and get to choose from a much lesser talented pool and get only 1 asset of lesser overall value.

Dumba would not have been available if there was no deal... not even Scandella or Brodin.

Vegas did what was best for THEM by dealing with the Wild.

What was best for them was drafting Dumba. If he wasn't going to be available there was Scandella and whatever other D the Wild would have exposed and if they went with just protecting 8 players they could have had a better forward.

Minnesota would have had to deal a couple of players for someone better than what they got to not be available. Many of us don't like the deal they made and think it was a bad choice because they would have had a better player from Minnesota no matter how you look at it.

Sure, Vegas could have made a deal to not select those players but does anyone like the deal they made? They could have asked for a future pick in 2018 or even 2019 and it would have made more sense to me.

It comes down to the perception that Vegas should have been able to make a better deal than they did. Minnesota would have had to drastically alter their team if none of those players were to be available and it sure seemed like the Wild were not going to trade all of those players. If they did trade them then other players who were protected by other teams become available from the teams that they were traded to.

I do not think Vegas made the best deal for them at all.

 

[Warden of the North]

They dont want a mediocre team.

They want a bad team with little in the way of long term assets so they can start fresh

 

[JuniorNelson]

LV is making a mistake abstaining from offer sheets!

 

[nmbr_24]

LV is making a mistake abstaining from offer sheets!

Players have to sign offer sheets, what players are going to want to go to probably the worst team in the league? I don't think many players would sign an offer sheet with them.

 

[missingjibbsclub]

I would've just picked players that were under 25. Tank a bit and grab a few prospects, next thing you know you're a powerhouse.

 

[Mattilaus]

While I agree with you , it's not that easy because other teams would be hesitant on losing some of their own players .

Yes, and as I said in a post I made a couple after that one, I am not saying every good player would have been traded and only garbage would have been exposed. I am simply using this as an example to show that we cannot predict what the roster could have looked like if no deals were made. We can't say one way or the other so it's disingenuous to make a mock roster with all the best exposed players and say that's the team they could have had.

 

[TaLoN]

What was best for them was drafting Dumba. If he wasn't going to be available there was Scandella and whatever other D the Wild would have exposed and if they went with just protecting 8 players they could have had a better forward.

Minnesota would have had to deal a couple of players for someone better than what they got to not be available. Many of us don't like the deal they made and think it was a bad choice because they would have had a better player from Minnesota no matter how you look at it.

Sure, Vegas could have made a deal to not select those players but does anyone like the deal they made? They could have asked for a future pick in 2018 or even 2019 and it would have made more sense to me.

It comes down to the perception that Vegas should have been able to make a better deal than they did. Minnesota would have had to drastically alter their team if none of those players were to be available and it sure seemed like the Wild were not going to trade all of those players. If they did trade them then other players who were protected by other teams become available from the teams that they were traded to.

I do not think Vegas made the best deal for them at all.

The Wild were close on 3 deals... get it? Two defenseman and one forward.

They go 7-3-1 and protect Suter, Spurgeon, Dumba. Pominville was going to be traded to clear a forward spot, which means Staal would have been protected.

Scandella and Brodin and Pominville would have all been traded for exempt assets or in Pominville's case, for Beleskey who would have been exposed.

It's not hard to understand. Fletcher had deals on all three that he was ready to take if Vegas didn't deal. Haula+Tuch >>>> than Haula or Olofsson or Folin or Beleskey, which would have been all that remained as notable exposed players.

Fletcher was absolutely ready to drastically alter the team to maximize the WILD's assets first and foremost. He would have had the assets and cap space to fill the gaps created after the ED, which was why he was willing to go to that extreme if needed.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

It's like people actually thought they would be able to compete right away. They wouldn't have. They've got 3 picks in the top 15 tonight, and 6 in the top 60. That's how you build a team from scratch, regardless of whether or not the league threw you a bone to allow you a few more decent players to start with.

 

[Fugazy]

They're clearly pursuing the youth and stockpiling of draft picks route. They have every right to pursue that path.

 

[Rorschach]

People really think the other GMs would just sit there and lose good players for free. "The pledge" was about GMGM convincing the other GMs to not screw LV in deals with each other. It wouldn't surprise me that even the GMs like Rob Blake who didn't make a trade with LV took "the pledge" so that LV took one of their junk assets.

The other GMs had a lot of time to make deals with each other...and if enough of them did that, nearly all of GMGM's leverage would have evaporated as all of his targets were moved to teams with protection spots.

It's a form of game theory.

 

[tony d]

I agree. Good on Mcphee on building for the future and all but they could have had a much better lineup. The lineup they drafted on Wednesday will be lucky to win 20 games next year.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I agree. Good on Mcphee on building for the future and all but they could have had a much better lineup. The lineup they drafted on Wednesday will be lucky to win 20 games next year.

I've seen more than a few sentiments like this regarding how "terrible" the roster is. I have no other conclusion to draw other than I don't think some people remember/realize how bad expansion teams usually are.

Typical expansion teams don't even have one of Neal, R. Smith, Marchessault, Theodore, Schmidt, or Fleury. Not a single one. Strip those players out and that's the quality of a normal expansion draft.

 

[Sleepy]

That team may have been better this year but a dumpster fire in a couple years. GMGM did fine.

Edit: Also, Sharks got screwed out of the #1 pick in their expansion year, got screwed by Dallas taking a bunch of players SJ should have had, and were lucky to win 17 games in their first year, followed by only 11 wins the next year. This team is far better than that terrible Sharks team. I mean, our #2 overall pick was Pat Falloon, who finished the year -32. Anyone remember who was #1 overall that year? Yeah, I'm still ****ing bitter we didn't get Lindros.

 

[ponder]

Agreed that there were some prearranged deals - not everyone who appeared to be exposed was really exposed.

Also, it's a great point that most teams have a large stable of maturing prospects, and a steady stream of these guys coming in to fill holes in the team. Vegas will only have a trickle of "ready prospects" in 2-3 years, with the real pipeline not flowing consistently for 5-6 years. What's the point in them trying to "win now", still likely finishing ~28th-30th overall, and having a tonne of trouble even maintaining that level due to basically zero NHL ready prospects, when they could instead just load up on picks/prospects in the short term, tank for multiple super high draft picks, and have a legit shot to be a really exciting up and coming young team in 3-5 years? The next few years are going to suck for them, but that'll be the case no matter what, they may as well optimize for the brightest future possible.

 

[projexns]

Almost all of the draft picks and prospects accumulated in the expansion draft were from transactions with eight teams that were stacked on the blue-line, and could’ve traded a d-man to go from 4-4-1 protected to 7-3-1 protected.

I only see a 5th-rounder from Carolina and a 6th-rounder from Buffalo acquired outside of those eight teams.

If you made a chart of the assets acquired from the blue-line rich teams of Anaheim, Columbus, Florida, Minnesota, the Islanders, Ottawa, Tampa and Winnipeg, it would be impressive:

- A group of centers that would be passable as 2-3-4-5, lacking only the guy in the #1 slot
- A quality RW in Reilly Smith, signed long-term
- A cornerstone young-blue-liner in Theodore plus a high-quality vet in Methot
- Three 1st-round picks for the 2017 draft plus three 2nd round picks in future drafts
- A high-quality forward prospect already playing in the AHL and is waiver-exempt
-Gusev

The accumulation of quality futures was already well under way and of course there would be more. Van Riemsdyk has already banked another 2nd-rounder and there would be the inevitable selection of a few more players that were on expiring contracts and would be moved at the trade deadline to playoff-bound teams for 2nd, -3rd, or 4th round picks. There were plenty of “futures” being banked.

What McPhee did with the more straight-forward selections from the other 22 teams was very, very unimpressive.