Vegas Could Have Had Such A Better Team

[Mattilaus]

McPhee should've been fired yesterday. No way he lasts 2 years in Vegas.

There is absolutely no reason to take a bunch of garbage when you could take BPA and try to flip the players later.

I actually agree with this, I don't think he would have gotten all the best players like Dumba as some of them would have been traded, but he would have had a much better roster than he currently does. There is also an argument to be made that he would have gotten better assets in dealing those players rather than dealing the promises to not select players.

 

[Elvs]

This is really simple, let me break it down:

Vegas: Hey, Minny, we are gonna take Dumba unless you offer us something

Minny: I'll give you Tuch and Haula, if that's not enough, I will just trade Dumba to someone else so you can't take him, take it or leave it

Two possible results:

Vegas says no, Minny trades Dumba away and Vegas does not get Dumba.

OR

Vegas says yes, and here we are.

Either way, Vegas doesn't get Dumba.

Apply this same scenario to any other high value player you think vegas could have gotten had they not made a deal.

Yeah, I have no idea how this is so hard for some to understand. Let's use an example a six year old could grasp, using this candy:

6 year old: can I have the snickers bar?
big brother: No. The snickers is my favourite. And if you try to steal it, I will give it to the kid next door. It's off limits.

6 year old: *starts crying*
big brother: Look, if you stop crying, I will let you have BOTH the twix bar and the mars bar. Ok?

6 year old: But I want the snickers!
big brother: I don't care. It's mine. Grab the twix and mars, or be left with the licorice that you hate. Those are your two options.

6 year old: *Understands his situation and grabs the twix and the mars*

HFboards: Dumb six year old. He should have taken the snickers!

 

[Rob Brown]

Yeah, I have no idea how this is so hard for some to understand. Let's use an example a six year old could grasp, using this candy:

6 year old: can I have the snickers bar?
big brother: No. The snickers is my favourite. And if you try to steal it, I will give it to the kid next door. It's off limits.

6 year old: *starts crying*
big brother: Look, if you stop crying, I will let you have BOTH the twix bar and the mars bar. Ok?

6 year old: But I want the snickers!
big brother: I don't care. It's mine. Grab the twix and mars, or be left with the licorice that you hate. Those are your two options.

6 year old: *Understands his situation and grabs the twix and the mars*

HFboards: Dumb six year old. He should have taken the snickers!

Hopefully this helps the OP.

 

[SCampo98]

Yeah, I have no idea how this is so hard for some to understand. Let's use an example a six year old could grasp, using this candy:

6 year old: can I have the snickers bar?
big brother: No. The snickers is my favourite. And if you try to steal it, I will give it to the kid next door. It's off limits.

6 year old: *starts crying*
big brother: Look, if you stop crying, I will let you have BOTH the twix bar and the mars bar. Ok?

6 year old: But I want the snickers!
big brother: I don't care. It's mine. Grab the twix and mars, or be left with the licorice that you hate. Those are your two options.

6 year old: *Understands his situation and grabs the twix and the mars*

HFboards: Dumb six year old. He should have taken the snickers!

Even though is goes against what I said, I love it

 

[PRMan]

Is the goal to have a borderline playoff team off the hop, or getting pieces for a few years down the road?

The Kings staff would probably have been very pleased to have ditched Marian Gaborik's contract. Last I saw, Gaborik won't be ready for training camp as is and possibly longer into the season. Reid Boucher is a bubble NHLer at this point.

Stempniak is a commendable pro, but I'm not sure he's a long term piece who's also in the last year of his contract.

As mentioned, Vatanen wouldn't have been available had a side deal not been in place. The Ducks would have made some other deal rather than lose him for nothing prior to the expansion draft.

Brown would be better than Gaborik, because at least he's still a solid 3rd liner that doesn't take penalties and nearly leads the league in hits every year. Also, he's a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, leader and loves to teach younger guys. Plus, LV being an LA market for so long he would put butts in the seats.

Gaborik is a fragile broken guy with no speed or skill left that's still making over $4 million.

 

[PRMan]

This is really simple, let me break it down:

Vegas: Hey, Minny, we are gonna take Dumba unless you offer us something

Minny: I'll give you Tuch and Haula, if that's not enough, I will just trade Dumba to someone else so you can't take him, take it or leave it

Two possible results:

Vegas says no, Minny trades Dumba away and Vegas does not get Dumba.

OR

Vegas says yes, and here we are.

Either way, Vegas doesn't get Dumba.

Apply this same scenario to any other high value player you think vegas could have gotten had they not made a deal.

Once the lists were made, nobody could trade with anyone except LV.

 

[t0nedeff]

I guess nobody will ever understand that DUMBA AND VATANEN WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EXPOSED IF THOSE DEALS TO PROTECT THEM WERE NOT MADE

okay so if they would have protected them than each team loses a pretty good forward instead still probably wind up with a better line up than what they have now.

 

[Crede777]

Once the lists were made, nobody could trade with anyone except LV.

The deal would have had to occur before the roster freeze went into effect. If Anaheim or Minnesota gets close to the roster freeze without finalizing a deal with Vegas, then they offload their defensemen.

okay so if they would have protected them than each team loses a pretty good forward instead still probably wind up with a better line up than what they have now.

He's saying they trade away those players for protected assets. Not that they would choose to protect the players instead.

 

[BlueBaron]

You guys are oversimplifying this a bit. MIN had both Dumba and Scandella exposed. Both are nice options. So in reality MIN would have had to trade 2 D-men for expansion exempt assets and they still would lose a player.

It's not as black and white as you guys are making it out to be, nor nearly as simple to get around.

 

[kirkm]

As most people on here probably did, I mocked up the Golden Knights roster on TSN before the draft last night. In the end, I was pretty surprised as how good they could be while still staying within the cap and abiding by the expansion draft rules. Here is the team I picked, which abides by all of the rules set out. Players with an asterisk were chosen by the Golden Nights last night:

Forwards
----------
Kruger (CHI)
**Marchessault (FLA)
Bailey (NYI)
Grabner (NYR)
**Neal (NSH)
**Perron (STL)
Anderson (CBJ)
Burmistrov (ARI)
Bennett (NJD)
Boucher (VAN)
**Leipsic (TOR)
Chiasson (DAL)
Leier (PHI)
Stempniak (CAR)
Grigorenko (COL)
Gaborik (LAK)

Defenceman
--------------
Vatanen (ANA)
Dumba (MIN)
Enstrom (WPG)
**Methot (OTT)
Bogosian (BUF)
Oleksiak (DAL)
Ouellett (DET)
Nesterov (MTL)
Sustr (TBL)
Dillon (SJS)

Goalies
----------
**Fleury (PIT)
Grubauer (WSH)
Brossoit (EDM)
Subban (BOS)



IMHO, I think the trades with ANA to get Theodore an the trade with TBL to get Gusev were the only ones worth doing. I don't think any of the other trades, including where they got a 1st rounder this year, would have been worth making. If you substitute Vatanen for Theodore above, I still think Vegas would have one of the better top sixes in the league. I just don't get why Vegas picked the players they did (Pickard, Thorburn, Garrison, Berube, Engelland, Stoner, etc.)

If any of you guys did mock drafts, were your teams closer to the one I made or closer the the actual product Vegas revealed last night?

You took two players from DAL and none from CGY.

As to your point, at first glance their team does look underwhelming compared to what seemed available. I believe, as others have stated, that the teams with the best players available would have traded them instead of leaving them available if VGK didn't make a deal, leaving Vegas with an even worse choice.

If the entire league reshuffled players to maximize protecting the best players the VGK would look even worse than they do now. Obviously it would never work out to that extent but there were likely a few GMs that had deals ready if GMGM wasn't willing to make a compromising deal for a lesser asset.

They have a good number of picks and some good young assets, something to build on at least. Could they have done better? Possibly. I think they did alright if their plan is to build sustained success 3-4 years from now.

 

[Crede777]

You guys are oversimplifying this a bit. MIN had both Dumba and Scandella exposed. Both are nice options. So in reality MIN would have had to trade 2 D-men for expansion exempt assets and they still would lose a player.

It's not as black and white as you guys are making it out to be, nor nearly as simple to get around.

From what Murray said in Anaheim regarding both Manson and Vatanen, I think they might have offloaded both those guys. That's obviously worse for them in the long run but it's also worse for Vegas. Hence why Murray and McPhee came to a deal.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Why would they have selected Brossoit? He isn't waiver eligible, isn't proven at the NHL level, and thus would have next to no value in trade...

 

[Number 57]

How can you be on the website called Hockey's FUTURE and not understand that the draft picks and the prospects (especially Tuch, Gusev and Theodore) acquired by McPhee are wayyyyyyyy more valuable than any slight upgrade the Knights could have picked in this expansion draft, in terms of actual roster player.

They were picking from leftovers, and while there was some decent names out there, there wasn't any combination that would have made Vegas into an instant contender. They need to build through the draft.

Fortunately for the new NHL fans in Vegas, McPhee understands that better than you. This team could be a powerhouse 3-4 years from now and should be able to have a pretty long window to contend.

And no, they couldn't have had Manson/Vatanen/Brodin/Dumba. Stop thinking that.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

You guys are oversimplifying this a bit. MIN had both Dumba and Scandella exposed. Both are nice options. So in reality MIN would have had to trade 2 D-men for expansion exempt assets and they still would lose a player.

It's not as black and white as you guys are making it out to be, nor nearly as simple to get around.

Not to mention that the total amount of protection slots in the league doesn't change if you trade Dumba/Manson. They wouldn't have been available, but it would have forced the team trading for them to expose someone else in exchange.

 

[SashaSemin28]

The trade with Tampa could end up being absolutely genius by GMGM. Acquiring Gusev in that deal (who's in last year of his contract with SKA) and them perusing Dadonov could lead to them signing an entire line with fantastic chemistry. Seeing the Gusev-Shipachyov-Dadonov line in person in Köln was an absolute delight.

 

[Panda Bear]

GMGM should have just bluffed everything about the trades.

Burn bridges with Minnesota and Anaheim. Take Vatanen and Dumba.

 

[jcbeze]

GMGM should have just bluffed everything about the trades.

Burn bridges with Minnesota and Anaheim. Take Vatanen and Dumba.

Burn bridges with the entire league is more like it

 

[Mattilaus]

You guys are oversimplifying this a bit. MIN had both Dumba and Scandella exposed. Both are nice options. So in reality MIN would have had to trade 2 D-men for expansion exempt assets and they still would lose a player.

It's not as black and white as you guys are making it out to be, nor nearly as simple to get around.

I don't think anyone is suggesting anything to the contrary, our point is simply that you can't just look at the protection lists and assume they would all be the same without those deals. Yea the team would be better if they took BPA but we can't definitively say what those picks would be.

 

[Mattilaus]

Not to mention that the total amount of protection slots in the league doesn't change if you trade Dumba/Manson. They wouldn't have been available, but it would have forced the team trading for them to expose someone else in exchange.

This is correct but there were also essentially wasted protection slots, you don't think if Buffalo can trade for Dumba that we do an expose Bealieau instead?

 

[HanSolo]

Vegas needs to build their team slowly. Going all in with no prospect pool to speak of is not a good idea.

Also, as many have said, many exposed lists would not be the same without pre arranged deals.

 

[El Cohiba]

Vegas goofed by leaving Grabner and Ouellet on the board.. Happy the Wings got to keep the latter. He's not special, but not bad either

 

[herashak]

Maybe they didn't want to burn bridges with teams

 

[Willard]

Vegas needs a prospect organization. Absolutely no NHL team wins without that. They need bodies including minor leaguers and they need picks. Seems to me they're off to a pretty good start in that sense.

 

[Kranix]

Like I said in the post, I don't think Tuch is worth more than Dumba, do you?

McPhee has chosen the futures strategy, he left better players on the table to get a lot of draft picks.

 

[TaLoN]

I'm not sure how hard a concept this is, I'm trying to say that Vegas SHOULDN'T HAVE MADE THE DEAL TO LEAVE DUMBA ALONE.

The deal was made before the freeze according to Fletcher. The Wild were rumored on Friday to be close on deals to trade BOTH Scandella and Brodin, that would have allowed the Wild to PROTECT Dumba.

The Wild, then with two deals on the table he was willing to accept if Vegas was unwilling to deal, talked to GMGM and laid the situation out for him... deal on Fletcher's terms and get two quality assets... a young proven 3rd line center who still has top 6 potential if he could get the opportunity and a top prospect, or don't and get to choose from a much lesser talented pool and get only 1 asset of lesser overall value.

Dumba would not have been available if there was no deal... not even Scandella or Brodin.

Vegas did what was best for THEM by dealing with the Wild.