Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[tantalum]

He had a lacerated spleen for goodness sakes. And no nothing was faked. There have been many former AGMs and GMs etc that have gone through how the league monitors this stuff. There is no falsifying medical reports going on.

He suffered the injury Feb 20. He returned to the lineup 2 months + 2 days after receiving the injury. For mere mortals that are not professional athletes recovery can be up to 8 months! Guidance used to be 3-6 months before resuming normal athletic endeavours. There was a case study on a couple of pro hockey players about a decade ago that had them both getting cleared at 2 months...which lines up with this injury.

 

[NVious]

Vegas should get stripped of their cup and all former players should be made to play field hockey instead (in North Korea)

 

[Fishy McScales]

This.

Besides, Vegas had to play the regular season WITHOUT him, and they still made the playoffs. But as you said, eventually they'll miss out on the playoffs after putting one of their big guns on the shelf.

The whole point of the word "circumventing" is that you find a way around the rules.

Kovalchuk et al signed contracts that were legal at the time but were subsequently deemed to circumvent the cap and teams were punished anyway, directly or indirectly.

 

[Seras]

You can either
Play by the rules
Use the rules to your advantage
Change the rules

Pick one and get over it

 

[TheBeard]

Also: in doing this, Vegas secured a 1st-round matchup against Dallas, the top seed in the West. And, if it wins that series, it gets a 2nd-round matchup against the winner of Winnipeg-Dallas, which is effectively a 2 vs. 4 matchup in the West. Because, as everyone knows, the easiest way to win the Cup is to ... [checks notes] ... be the 8-seed, be guaranteed not have home ice advantage at any point in the first 3 rounds, and set yourself up to play possibly the top-2 teams in the conference and then maybe the #3 team after that.

They weren’t catching Vancouver so they were gonna play Edmonton Vancouver or Dallas regardless. Doing so with Stone, Hanifin and Mantha made more sense than just Stone. Fact is if they’re gonna make a run they’re probably gonna have to go through two top notch teams minimum.

Aaaah, here we go. We just switch arguments every time it's convenient. It's no longer about health, it's only about whether a team is getting a cap advantage.

No, my point is teams put players health secondary. No way would a team say “no Mark. Even though you want to we don’t think you’re 100% and don’t want to risk further injury.” The league wouldn’t ever intervene.

I bet you think politicians actually work for their constituents as well.

 

[Saskatoon]

Maybe there is nothing shady happening but you can't say with a straight face it doesn't look suspicious for Stone to be well enough to play Game 1 of the playoffs. Coming back Game 82 (which he can't because of the cap) or like Game 3 of the first round doesn't look nearly as bad.

But yea game 1 of the playoffs was always going to have bad optics and get people riled up.

 

[Freudian]

It won't change because no one wants to change it.

• The players like it because it a) increases the chances of getting traded at trade deadline when on a bad team and b) it increases the total amount of salary the player collective makes.
• The teams like it because a) you can be Vegas or b) you can be the team out of the playoffs getting to trade players to Vegas for assets that help your rebuild.

Fans can complain all they want about it being unfair. No one in the NHL cares. An added bonus is that having Darth Vegas in the playoffs increases interest because fans of other teams get all wound up about it.

 

[pantherbot]

It won't change because no one wants to change it.

• The players like it because it a) increases the chances of getting traded at trade deadline when on a bad team and b) it increases the total amount of salary the player collective makes.
• The teams like it because a) you can be Vegas or b) you can be the team out of the playoffs getting to trade players to Vegas for assets that help your rebuild.

Fans can complain all they want about it being unfair. No one in the NHL cares. An added bonus is that having Darth Vegas in the playoffs increases interest because fans of other teams get all wound up about it.

Pretty sure players on the 15 other playoff teams don't like it because it reduces their chances to win. This also had no influence on total salary.

Similarly to the players, pretty sure the other 15 playoff teams don't like the prospect of going against a roster with way more salary cap.

 

[CincoHolio]

Some people are saying it's about health and whether the team is masking the health status of the player. So regardless of when they went on LTIR, to be consistent, why should not every player be forced back before the playoffs?

I think the issue behind the supposed fake injury is that they're allowed to add to the roster at the deadline. What advantage is it to Vegas other than having a fully rested Stone if they didn't go above the cap to add players? Same for the Leafs. There was no advantage to Jarnkrok being out so long. It didn't help them add any players and the Leafs could have used him in the back half of the season.

 

[bossram]

No, my point is teams put players health secondary. No way would a team say “no Mark. Even though you want to we don’t think you’re 100% and don’t want to risk further injury.” The league wouldn’t ever intervene.

I bet you think politicians actually work for their constituents as well.

My point is that the interests of the team have always gone into when players will/won't return from injury. This is nothing new in the slightest. Which is why the complaints are nonsensical. Every single team does this. Every single player will push to return in the playoffs. The vitriol over Stone and Vegas specifically is nonsensical. Every team in this situation would do the same. There's no secret Vegas advantage.

I would make some smarmy point about your intelligence as well, but there's no need. Your level of understanding is obvious.

I think the issue behind the supposed fake injury is that they're allowed to add to the roster at the deadline. What advantage is it to Vegas other than having a fully rested Stone if they didn't go above the cap to add players? Same for the Leafs. There was no advantage to Jarnkrok being out so long. It didn't help them add any players and the Leafs could have used him in the back half of the season.

The advantage to not forcing guys like Jarnkrok and Ekblad back is that they're healthier for the playoffs. But if you believe that they are healthy, why are you not saying they should be forced back? Still getting an advantage in the playoffs.

And can you prove Mark Stone has a fake injury? Do you have images of his spleen?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Fully expecting there to be some sort of Senators connection here when penalties are being discussed. Sens didn't disclose a document about Mark Stone when he was traded. Sens also docked another 1st rd pick.

The persecution complex over Canadian-based teams is laughable. As in, even the greatest minds in the field of psychology say "even I can't explain this shit."

 

[Sting]

The persecution complex over Canadian-based teams is laughable. As in, even the greatest minds in the field of psychology say "even I can't explain this shit."

It's a running joke on these boards. It's hard to detect sarcasm through typing, I get it.

 

[S E P H]

It's hard to fix this rule because you're talking about random chance events like injuries which will impact every team differently. Your club has got to be in a situation where you know that one of your players is going to miss the rest of the season but be well enough for the playoffs. Again these are random chance injuries here.

The problem and why Vegas has been able to use it is that Stone has been banged up/injured with back and spleen issues, but you have to consider his pain as "legitimate" as a physician, especially when it comes to visual data like in MRI and CT scans. Did he have a spleen laceration? Probably? Was it probably super minor? Probably, also yes. It's the same thing people do to get green cards for weed, they just exaggerate how they have "insert chronic joint pain here" and you can't really go against the patients' word as their pain tolerance might be different from somebody else's. The only way is through aspects like somatic symptom disorders.

 

[thefutures]

We are still crying in here I guess

 

[Curufinwe]

It's the same thing people do to get green cards for weed

Is it the 1990s again?

 

[The Flying Octopus]

We are still crying in here I guess

No just facts.

Here's a guy whose lacerated spleen was so bad that he couldn't even pick up a hockey stick last week. But fortunately the man's spleen exploded into a billion little pieces just a couple weeks before the trade deadline. So that allowed the Golden Knights to stash his $9.5M cap hit on LTIR for the rest of the regular season, which then opened up enough space for Vegas to trade for Tomas Hertl and Noah Hanifin--a combined $8.4M cap hit. Now that we're in the playoffs, the salary cap is made up and means nothing. So with Mark Stone being a modern medical marvel, his spleen happens to heal up just in time to not only be ready for game 1 but to score the opening goal just 83 seconds into the game. He couldn't even pick up a hockey stick last week, yet he had enough in the tank to play the 2nd most minutes out of Vegas' forwards last night.

but but but

Save it Vegas fans

 

[thefutures]

No just facts.

Here's a guy whose lacerated spleen was so bad that he couldn't even pick up a hockey stick last week. But fortunately the man's spleen exploded into a billion little pieces just a couple weeks before the trade deadline. So that allowed the Golden Knights to stash his $9.5M cap hit on LTIR for the rest of the regular season, which then opened up enough space for Vegas to trade for Tomas Hertl and Noah Hanifin--a combined $8.4M cap hit. Now that we're in the playoffs, the salary cap is made up and means nothing. So with Mark Stone being a modern medical marvel, his spleen happens to heal up just in time to not only be ready for game 1 but to score the opening goal just 83 seconds into the game. He couldn't even pick up a hockey stick last week, yet he had enough in the tank to play the 2nd most minutes out of Vegas' forwards last night.

but but but

Save it Vegas fans

Not vegas fan at all. It's been happening for years take it up with the NHL. Don't hate the player hate the game.

 

[YippieKaey]

Vegas is starting to get a bad rep for this stuff. Will cost them in the long run.

 

[Vegas07]

If Vegas/Stone win this year, it may not get an ** and in 5 years most won't care, but it feels like it would be the least respected or at least most cynically evaluated cup win in ages by the hockey community

Fortunately the Vegas front office is more focused on pleasing Vegas fans than pleasing the fans of other teams.

Find me any other professional sport where this level of "coincidence" has occurred three years in a row. This isn't just some fantasy. Even the insiders are questioning it.

Ok, but the counter argument to that is Vegas essentially "traded" Mark Stone for two months in order to secure a top pairing defensemen, top six center and middle six winger all with the guarantee Stone would return after two months.

If you told me the Avalanche could park Mikko Rantanen on LTIR for 2 months then load up with Hanifin, Hertl, and Mantha then casually welcome Rantanen back for game 1 I would tell you idgaf where we finish because our roster is the best roster.

This team isn’t even as good as last years team. This team still seems to have issues at goalie and defense. I would not be surprised at all to see Dallas win this series.

 

[dahrougem2]

Fortunately the Vegas front office is more focused on pleasing Vegas fans than pleasing the fans of other teams.


This team isn’t even as good as last years team. This team still seems to have issues at goalie and defense. I would not be surprised at all to see Dallas win this series.

You might not think they're playing as well as last year's team, but let's not be ridiculous now. They lost Reilly Smith but added Tomas Hertl, Anthony Mantha, and Noah Hanifin. This team is MUCH deeper than last years.

 

[stator]

Mark Stone with a goal and on the ice for every key defensive situation in game 1. Another year another medical miracle.

It would be for a grade4. That’s why I suspect it was a lessor grade.

 

[Vegas07]

You might not think they're playing as well as last year's team, but let's not be ridiculous now. They lost Reilly Smith but added Tomas Hertl, Anthony Mantha, and Noah Hanifin. This team is MUCH deeper than last years.

Of course, the power play is improved and the offense looks better. But we did lose Hill (he went from solid last year to struggling this year) and that performance by Thompson was weak. Martinez wasn’t in the lineup so that shows how far he has fallen.

I seriously question if a team can win a cup like this unless the defense and goaltending improves.

Last year there was no question the defense was good enough and Hill was very solid.

 

[rsteen]

you say they would be caught, and that is true, but only if the league has any intention to try and catch them.

But why would the League want to catch them when Gary Bettman sole job as commissioner is make as much money for the owners as possible? That is literally his primary function, he is the representative of the team owners, hired by the owners to work in their best interest. All the other stuff he does, trying to "grow" the game, rule changes, blah,blah,blah is just an extension of his only real responsibility, make the owners richer...and a winning Vegas team, makes everyone richer.

Gary Bettman doesn't give two squirrley poo's about the integrity of the game, rules of fair play, any of that stuff, it's a billion dollar business that he's charged with making as profitable as possible.

Bettman and Daly say that LTIR is reviewed by an independent physician.

NHL's long-term injured reserve rules to remain intact, for now

A hot-button issue for NHL fans doesn’t appear to be a pressing one for the league’s general managers, hence perceived abuse of long-term injured reserve replacement wasn’t even on the docket for their three-day meetings in Florida this week.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Lol at all the excuses defending it because, "it's not against the rules."

Riddle me this, what's the point of the salary cap? To have an even playing field so rich teams cannot spend top-dollar, leaving teams with lesser means in the gutter, yes? By allocating the same spending money to every team, it's fair, correct?

Now, Vegas has a roster that's like 16M above the cap, yet it's suddenly okay because it isn't against the rules? It violates the very reason the rule was introduced in the first place. By being this much over the cap, it's no longer an even playing field. One team has an 88M roster, the other has a 104M roster. That's not equal.

That's what people are pissed off about, especially given the fact that Stone being ready for game 1 is highly suspicious.

 

[ffh]

If the governors told bettman to change the ltir rule it would be changed in a minute. He would have no choice.