Speculation: Vancouver Canucks - Now 2nd in League Revenues !!!! Gillis know how to make $$$$

[y2kcanucks]

Are you serious?? You're the one who's been clambering for the team to be blown up and rebuilt. So we trade a player at his peak value while in a Canucks uniform for a younger and more needed player. You're the biggest Captain Hindsight I've ever come across in my life. I seriously feel sorry for the people that have to deal with you. What happened to "The Sedins aren't player you can win with" Yet you talk about going for a playoff run? Make up your mind gawd.

Captain Hindsight? Or your misunderstanding of my position?

How long have I been saying to blow up this team for? About a year now? The 2012 trade deadline happened well before I wanted to blow up this team. It's not hindsight when I'm discussing my opinion at the time...hindsight is just confirming that I was right at the time.

The team was coming off a year where they were 1 game away from winning the Cup, and you're telling me that trading producing assets for futures at the next trade deadline was a smart move? Despite the fact that the GM neglected to address any of the holes on the team?

 

[Love]

http://twopadstack.net/canucks-failed-business-management-101/

I'm a Sabres fan, so I come in peace and definitely am familiar with failure. I understand that Gillis was handcuffed with Lou, but it just seems like he's made some really questionable decisions over the last couple of years, starting with the Schneider deal and maybe even going back to the Hodgson deal. What's going on with the Nucks?

Apparently the Canucks are now 2nd in total revenue, and were something like 8th when Gillis took over? So I wouldnt say that Gillis is failing in the business aspect, but I just dont think he should be GM.

He can obviously make the team money, but his handling of draft/trades and players in general isnt the greatest IMO.

Make Gillis president, find someone else to be GM.

 

[ShouldveDraftedFiala]

This. The Sabres are gonna end up dealing Hodgson to another team as their next wave of young players emerges, and at that point the Canucks will have officially won the Hodgson - Kassian trade. It's only a matter of time. If Bo Horvat pans out I'll take our cheap meatball goaltending over Schneider and Luongo. Put the goaltending money elsewhere.

Why would we have won the Hodgson trade if Buffalo trades him? He will get a much better return than Kassian now that he's proven he can score in the NHL consistently.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Trading Hodgson at that time was a surprise but it was the right move. You can argue over whether or not Kassian was the right return for him but neither player has really turned out to be the player they were touted to be coming out of junior at this point. Hodgson wanted out as well. The idea of Hodgson on the Canucks is much better than what the reality would be. The issue wasn't that the Canucks traded Hodgson was the fact that they were never able to find a replacement for him/Malholtra.

The Luongo/Schneider saga wouldn't have been one had there not been a lockout and the cap reclamation part of the CBA wasn't such a BS rule. That being said there were other ways around this problem but Gillis wasn't able to find them. It be nice to have one of Luongo/Schneider going forward but as pointed out by "Nuck This" there are a lot of capable goaltenders for NHL teams to choose from these days. If Horvat turns out to be the player he is expected to be, that trade will be a good one. The Luongo trade may set the Canucks up much better for the future as well. I think with Melanson teaching him Markstrom could be the next Ben Bishop.

 

[y2kcanucks]

This. The Sabres are gonna end up dealing Hodgson to another team as their next wave of young players emerges, and at that point the Canucks will have officially won the Hodgson - Kassian trade. It's only a matter of time. If Bo Horvat pans out I'll take our cheap meatball goaltending over Schneider and Luongo. Put the goaltending money elsewhere.

Was 2003 really that long ago? Or are we setting up the old goaltending excuse that was used to absolve Naslund's playoff disappearances so that we can use it again if the next core is unsuccessful? People underselling goaltending here shocks me given the Canucks history of poor goaltending prior to Luongo's arrival.

 

[deckercky]

Why would we have won the Hodgson trade if Buffalo trades him? He will get a much better return than Kassian now that he's proven he can score in the NHL consistently.

Who would pay for him? Certainly not a contender, so he essentially gets solidified as a stopgap second line center for rebuilding teams. Probably will be sent to get a rental at some point.

 

[Mofletz]

at the time of the trade Cody needed a much higher return 16g 17a 33 pts +8. AV was protecting him, making look more defensive liable out on the ice.

 

[The Vengabus]

So you know absolutely nothing about the situation except what you have been spoonfed by a media narrative and still felt compelled to write your own article. Why?

 

[Stonz]

A word of advice: when a professional sports team's value more than doubles in the past year, from $342 million to $700 million, suggesting they're "Failing Business Management 101" may not be the best way to begin your critical analysis.

This is simply a terribly written article. A regurgitation of "facts" with no analysis, no balance, no critical thinking.

If you've already started on Part 2, stop. If you haven't, don't.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Was 2003 really that long ago? Or are we setting up the old goaltending excuse that was used to absolve Naslund's playoff disappearances so that we can use it again if the next core is unsuccessful? People underselling goaltending here shocks me given the Canucks history of poor goaltending prior to Luongo's arrival.

Having Luongo or Schneider going forward would be a nice safety net but there are a lot of good options out there for the Canucks in net, including the two with the team right now.

Going with two unproven goalie is a risk but if Markstrom turns out to be even close to what he was expected to be when he came over from Europe, the Canucks will have a very good goaltender, not to mention Lack has shown he's a solid goaltender as well so far.

 

[carolinacanuck]

This is so poorly written I couldn't even finish it

and I'm sure a site called twopadsstacked would definitely give a un-biased look into the goaltending situation

uh huh, it's awful

i made it 3 paragraphs before i quit reading

 

[Barney Gumble]

A word of advice: when a professional sports team's value more than doubles in the past year, from $342 million to $700 million, suggesting they're "Failing Business Management 101" may not be the best way to begin your critical analysis.

No kidding....Gillis might have failed badly this season (re: on-ice produc) - but to have a column heading of "Failing Business Management 101" when the Canucks have been one of the leading teams in revenue makes me wonder where this "Business Management 101" course was taken....

The laughs don't stop as the Mods wisely choice to merge the thread with this one - to put things into it's proper perspective.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Glad they are making so much money off the fans. Maybe they can drop the ticket and beer prices a bit.

*Camera pans to Gillis and Aquaman laughing like mad scientists in a dark room* NOT ON THIS DAY PEON!

 

[Anzes Eyes]

Was 2003 really that long ago? Or are we setting up the old goaltending excuse that was used to absolve Naslund's playoff disappearances so that we can use it again if the next core is unsuccessful? People underselling goaltending here shocks me given the Canucks history of poor goaltending prior to Luongo's arrival.

The underselling of goaltending is an NHL wide phenomenon due to playoff success of Detroit followed by Chicago. This position in the CBAs is now where we can take a "shortcut" on salary to bolster other positions. With these two trades, the Canucks are adopting this position.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

Moving away a future star like Cody Hodgson is just bad management.

I don't even think most Canuck fans had Cody pegged as a future star. I liked Cody but his ceiling was often discussed as a 2nd line center & PP specialist at best. Buffalo is the worst possible scenario for him, the chances that he becomes a "star" are not good. He would have been much better served playing on the 3rd line for the Canucks a few seasons and learning from the two guys ahead of him on the depth chart. Who does he have to mentor him in Buffalo? He's completely out of his league playing against other teams top lines as a 1st or 2nd line center. Cody and his agent just had an odd sense of entitlement and a poor understanding of where he was at development wise.The trade was made at a stupid time, I've always said that, but to say the Canucks are long term losers of that trade is a stretch to say the least.

The Schneider trade was terrible because Gillis traded the younger, cheaper, better goalie. The return was fair, it wasn't great but people misread the goalie market constantly. All you have to do is look at the recent history of goalie trades to understand the return is never as high as people want.

Ballard and Booth I put on the pro scouts. Neither one of them really looked like the players we were sold on from the start but what we gave up, aside from the 1st rounder, was pretty inconsequential. People gripe about Grabner but he had an awful camp and Raymond was easily the better player at the time. We would have lost him for nothing on waivers – like the Panthers did.

Booth was a cap dump by Florida, and a well done one at that, but it really didn't cost anything at the time. Now however, his cap hit has handcuffed the Canucks the last two season, he's essentially a 3rd or 4th line grinder now and shouldn't be making more than 1.5-1.8M at the most. The amount of time and resources they have wasted on this guy is mind numbing. Should be a no brainer buy-out if he manages to not injure himself again.

I loved the Sundin move, it was outside the box and rather brilliant in it's execution. His impact was tremendous in that locker room and on the careers of guys like Kesler and the Twins.

It is odd though, he went from doing no wrong his first few years to doing nearly everything wrong since the Cup loss. I can't think of one great move he's made since then; perhaps poaching Stanton off waivers but he'll never be more than a 5-6 guy.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The underselling of goaltending is an NHL wide phenomenon due to playoff success of Detroit followed by Chicago. This position in the CBAs is now where we can take a "shortcut" on salary to bolster other positions. With these two trades, the Canucks are adopting this position.

Detroit had Nick Lidstrom, arguably one of the best defensemen of all time.

Chicago just re-signed Crawford to an annual cap hit of $6M. If they bought into this crap that goaltending is insignificant then they wouldn't have committed that much to him.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Detroit had Nick Lidstrom, arguably one of the best defensemen of all time.

Chicago just re-signed Crawford to an annual cap hit of $6M. If they bought into this crap that goaltending is insignificant then they wouldn't have committed that much to him.

It's not about having a low cap hit goaltending it's about distribution of the cap while still having good goaltending. Crawford for $6M per is a big overpayment.

What teams need to be succesful and go deep in the playoffs is to have your stars play up to their cap hits and have other players play above their cap hits. Niemi, Crawford, and Quick all played above their contracts during the cup runs (and have since got paid for it).

When there are 3 recent cup winners who had their goaltenders outplay what their cap hit was, it's easy to see why teams are starting to go away from paying big money to starters. The good teams also know how to play defense to play to the strengths and cover the weaknesses of their goaltender.

 

[Wetcoaster]

This. The Sabres are gonna end up dealing Hodgson to another team as their next wave of young players emerges, and at that point the Canucks will have officially won the Hodgson - Kassian trade. It's only a matter of time. If Bo Horvat pans out I'll take our cheap meatball goaltending over Schneider and Luongo. Put the goaltending money elsewhere.

The Ken Holland approach.

 

[Wetcoaster]

This is so poorly written I couldn't even finish it

and I'm sure a site called twopadsstacked would definitely give a un-biased look into the goaltending situation

Just another fan blog site.

 

[Wisp]

The Ken Holland approach.

It's not even the Ken Holland approach. A million average to above average goalies come out of Europe every year.

 

[Wetcoaster]

To be fair, the Hodgson trade is pretty much a washout.

Both kinda useless. One is an inconsistent 3rd liner who shows flashes of brilliance

The other is a bottom 3 defensive player in the NHL

Let's just stop talking about that one.

Kassian is a power forward and they generally take longer to develop. See Bertuzzi, Todd.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Apparently the Canucks are now 2nd in total revenue, and were something like 8th when Gillis took over? So I wouldnt say that Gillis is failing in the business aspect, but I just dont think he should be GM.

He can obviously make the team money, but his handling of draft/trades and players in general isnt the greatest IMO.

Make Gillis president, find someone else to be GM.

Revenue and business matters are the hands of a professional - Victor De Bonis, COO (former CFO) not Gillis.

Back when Quinn was fired the Canucks made that split between busines and hockey operations and installed Dave Cobb. Cobb was succeeded by De Bonis when Cobb left to become the Number Two guy with VANOC. It was Cobb who put the systems in place to enhance revenue streams and make the Canucks a money machine. Mind you that did not stop Burkie from wrongly claiming he was responsible.

 

[me2]

http://twopadstack.net/canucks-failed-business-management-101/

I'm a Sabres fan, so I come in peace and definitely am familiar with failure. I understand that Gillis was handcuffed with Lou, but it just seems like he's made some really questionable decisions over the last couple of years, starting with the Schneider deal and maybe even going back to the Hodgson deal. What's going on with the Nucks?

Luongo wanted to go to Florida only. Gillis and Tallon wanted a deal with Florida but Florida ownership wouldn't commit. So the Canucks/Gillis were doing the right thing, and were not the hold up, were not asking too much, or any of the other rubbish spouted. The hold up was at Florida's end - they wanted Luongo but wouldn't commit (ownership problems).

This left the Canucks in situation of having to come into the 2013-14 season with $9.3m in goalie cap and the cap was dropping to $64m the Canucks had to shed about $6m in salary, they simply could not fit both goalies. Given that Florida wouldn't nut up and make the Luongo trade at that point in time, If the Canucks didn't trade Schneider they would have been left with both goalies and an illegal cap position. That cap position would have meant being forced to buy out Luongo under compliance or get even messier with salary cap issues. Moving Schneider was the least worst move in a situation of were all the moves were bad.

Eventually Florida got new ownership and Tallon was able to make the move he, Luongo and Gillis wanted all along. Canucks waited to see what Lack was like at NHL level. He's had a rough patch post trade, most of it luck/team play related with a few mistakes thrown in, but has been sound overall. Luongo was just as bad his last 6 games here.

It's a good move to see what Lack has as starter since the season was effectively over anyway. He's dirt cheap for the next 2 years, frees up millions and if he struggles next year - well there is always an amazing top 4 draft picks so Gillis couldn't pick a better down/rebuilding year. Pick up a vet (or Schneider as UFA the year after).

Gillis has made his mistakes but he's dealt with the goalie situation as best he could given the hand he was dealt (Florida only request by Lu, Florida continually flirting then back off then repeating, CBA recapture killing Luongo's value, cap dropping $6m the year he tries to trade Luongo).


As for Hodgson - meh. IMHO there is a reason Murray wants 2 top 6 centres (Bennett/Reinhart and tank for McDavid/Eichel) and it is that he realises Cody is not the kind of centre a playoff team relies on, he's the kind of top 6 centre you find on teams like Buffalo (Cody) or Edmonton (Gagner). He's one of the worst possession players in the entire NHL, I think he's the second worst centre with about 30 games players, and that includes 4th line plugs that make John Scott look skilled. He's skilled but somehow about - 280 on corsi on the season and it has always been a problem for him. At the end of the day I'll take the guy on 0.87m over $4.25m if they aren't excelling.

 

[RandV]

Given the position the team was in, trading a producing roster player for futures was a stupid move. Yes, it was pathetic timing. We needed to load up for another playoff run and instead he sold a producing center man for a player who didn't help us at all that season. That's not a knock on Kassian. The same could be said about any other prospect acquired in a Hodgson trade.

You never see contending teams trading away producing players at the deadline for futures, especially when they have blatant holes in their team that said player was also helping to address.

For that season going into the playoffs Hodgson was replaced by Pahlsson, not Kassian. And I'm sure AV had a lot of influence here. Hodgson was scoring but he was no pre-injury Malholtra.

 

[y2kcanucks]

For that season going into the playoffs Hodgson was replaced by Pahlsson, not Kassian. And I'm sure AV had a lot of influence here. Hodgson was scoring but he was no pre-injury Malholtra.

Right, going from a producing young rookie to an offensive black hole whose best days were 5 years prior to that season. That's confidence inspiring.