Confirmed with Link: [VAN/NYR] Nicklas Jensen + 2017 6th for Emerson Etem

[groov2]

Rarely is the line with the puck the one getting more tired. Somehow because Dorsett throws a hit or two it makes them more tired? Nah. Don't think so. Bad possession players make their own team tired not the other team.

And Tiranis...I agree regarding Etem. Really it's why his fast skating and excitement end up not amounting to anything. The bulk of the time he's spinning in circles in his own zone. Now the jury is still out with regard to his play on the canucks of course but his history is what it is. It's like the excitement with bartkowski the first couple of games because he flew up ice with the puck a lot. Sure he does. He's also terrible defensively and gets hemmed in his own zone constantly.

Possession numbers go down the toilet when you chip, chase, hit, and grind. I am not suggestion that possession is not good; hell, I have been coaching a possession game since I began coaching. Every good junior team I ever played for played a possession game, and every championship team I ever played against was a possession dynamo.

It does not mean that a player holds no value if they don't possess that skill. When I scouted with the Hockey Canada program, this is one of the very skillsets we put a lot of value into when assessing a player's talent; at least to determine what type of player they were and could become at the next level. I am a huge believer in the possession game, which is specifically why Torts drove me absolutely nuts as a coach.

If you look down the roster of every championship team in the NHL, they have players with bad possession numbers, but they are effective in what they do. Now, if we are having an argument about the misuse of poor possession players, which I believe is the case in Dorsett, that turns into a completely different conversation.

As for Etem, what I do agree with, is that with his style of play, if he wants to be a scorer, he will have to raise his possession numbers to be an effective player on the team. If not, he will have to change the way he plays.

 

[Peter10]

No, they aren't.

1) Rebuilding/re-tooling teams have to overpay for players. It's the unfortunate reality. However - both Sbisa and Dorsett fill needs of this team.

Pretty much the only need Sbisa fills is the one as everyones favorite pizza joke. There was no need to overpay him, just give him the qualifying offer (around $3m) and see how he does. He is not a player were you desperately have to "buy" UFA years off him. Who the hell cares if he was a pending UFA this year with a QA. I seriously doubt anyone would have paid him what he got last year.


As for your arguement with the "sacred" 2nd rounder... I guess its more the potential of that pick. While the chance to pick a solid NHL arent too great you can still get lucky and draft a future Shea Weber (not that its likely to happen though), when drafting that pick away for an 22ish player with some upside but also some issue its pretty much accepting that you wont get much out of the pick other than maybe an ok 2nd/3rd line tweener. I guess that is what upsets people. Its ok to take that risk once or twice but the more you do it, the more it looks like accepting mediocrity. It may work out in the long run but it just doesnt look good.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Nick Jensen European reunion tour countdown on?

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Sweet trade Jimbo

I bet this whole thread is about how much he overpaid

 

[Verviticus]

edit: actually your post might have some small flaws but i agree w/what you're saying and dont want to derail

 

[tantalum]

Possession numbers go down the toilet when you chip, chase, hit, and grind. I am not suggestion that possession is not good; hell, I have been coaching a possession game since I began coaching. Every good junior team I ever played for played a possession game, and every championship team I ever played against was a possession dynamo.

It does not mean that a player holds no value if they don't possess that skill. When I scouted with the Hockey Canada program, this is one of the very skillsets we put a lot of value into when assessing a player's talent; at least to determine what type of player they were and could become at the next level. I am a huge believer in the possession game, which is specifically why Torts drove me absolutely nuts as a coach.

If you look down the roster of every championship team in the NHL, they have players with bad possession numbers, but they are effective in what they do. Now, if we are having an argument about the misuse of poor possession players, which I believe is the case in Dorsett, that turns into a completely different conversation.

As for Etem, what I do agree with, is that with his style of play, if he wants to be a scorer, he will have to raise his possession numbers to be an effective player on the team. If not, he will have to change the way he plays.

I don't disagree you need different types of players. No argument from me.

You do get an argument from me by insisting chip and chase is low possession hockey. It's not inherently low possession at all. It is only low possession if your dump and chase, north-south players are incapable of making the opposition play the same type of game by being lousy defensively or lousy at puck recovery.

 

[iceburg]

Like what I've seen from Etem so far. It's still early but he certainly doesn't look out of place. Speed to burn, hard to handle on the boards. At least a solid bottom six. The unknown is how much he will provide offensively over time...but, for what they gave up to get him, that's all gravy.

 

[groov2]

I don't disagree you need different types of players. No argument from me.

You do get an argument from me by insisting chip and chase is low possession hockey. It's not inherently low possession at all. It is only low possession if your dump and chase, north-south players are incapable of making the opposition play the same type of game by being lousy defensively or lousy at puck recovery.

I didn't say that though. I was more or less supporting my argument for the type of players they are. chip and chase is just another tool to play the game and another weapon in your arsenal.

(I think we're saying the same thing).

 

[tantalum]

I didn't say that though. I was more or less supporting my argument for the type of players they are. chip and chase is just another tool to play the game and another weapon in your arsenal.

(I think we're saying the same thing).

Likely we are basically agreeing but you did say chip, chase, hit and grind means possession numbers go down. I don't believe that is the case unless you are yourself constantly on the back foot and are not effective at that type of hockey. If you are unable to force the other team to dump it in, unable to recover your own dump ins and unable to force the opposition to make quick passes and mistakes then yes possession numbers go down. But if you do those things well possession numbers should be fine.

There is chip and chase hockey and there is OMG that guy is just a bad hockey player (at the NHL level). The canucks have a lot of the latter. Prust is one. The way Dorsett has played makes him another...Sbisa, Bartkowski, Weber the list goes on. The most effective chip and chase guy beyond Hansen is probably Virtanen. Good for him but it's a pretty strong indictment of your other grinding type players when a 19 year old, who arguably should not be in the league, is more effective than you.

Etem...jury very much still out. First game or two were fine. I thought the next couple of games he wasn't good (along with most of the team). Last night he made a nice play on the one goal but was underwhelming the rest of the way. We'll have to see what happens but to me he looks bottom 6 potential but not prepared to say things like solid bottom 6 for sure. He's one of these guys that will do something exciting on a shift and people remember that but fail to see his other 15 shifts were meh.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Etem has been a pleasant surprise thus far. Hope he can continue, appears to be a decent bottom 6 winger.

 

[IComeInPeace]

Etem, at this point, is still focused on keeping an NHL job. I he can stay a regular in the lineup for the next couple of months, much like Sven, as his confidence goes up I think we will see him play some better hockey.

The problem is, given his past, there's a chance he doesn't stay a regular in the lineup.

But, at this point, there's reason for quiet optimism.

 

[MISC*]

I think Hansen would be a great mentor for Etem.

Woykd be amazing if he could be our next cores Hansen.

 

[M2Beezy]

I think Hansen would be a great mentor for Etem.

Woykd be amazing if he could be our next cores Hansen.

He reminds me A LOT of Hansen. Fast and hockey smart but has poor hands at times. Hansen has gotten better but Etem now ive seen him slow to get his hands going to respond to fast hockey plays. Havent seem him hit like Hansen so hope he does that too. But has a lot of speed and ive noticed he knows to go to the right spot a lot of times i have to say im liking some of bennings moves that are paying off and im a big FIRE BENNING guy

 

[Roy Baby*]

Like what I've seen from Etem so far. It's still early but he certainly doesn't look out of place. Speed to burn, hard to handle on the boards. At least a solid bottom six. The unknown is how much he will provide offensively over time...but, for what they gave up to get him, that's all gravy.

I think his smarts are very underrated too... he's been making good plays that don't hurt possession and I know the Burrows pass was one instance, but it was very intentional and you can tell he's looking to make plays like that.

His self awareness off the ice is really refreshing too...I was impressed by how well he was able to own up to his own faults and address his areas of weakness. Guy said he wants to finish his career too, so he knows how to smooth talk this overly critical fan base lol

Obviously he has a lot of consistency to prove from here on out, but at least you know that there's a good YOUNG player in the system.

 

[docbenton]

He reminds me A LOT of Hansen. Fast and hockey smart but has poor hands at times. Hansen has gotten better but Etem now ive seen him slow to get his hands going to respond to fast hockey plays. Havent seem him hit like Hansen so hope he does that too. But has a lot of speed and ive noticed he knows to go to the right spot a lot of times i have to say im liking some of bennings moves that are paying off and im a big FIRE BENNING guy

He's got really good hands, actually. Just needs to focus on playing hard every shift and maybe add some physicality considering he's a pretty strong dude. If he does that the skill stuff will show through.

 

[denkiteki]

He reminds me A LOT of Hansen. Fast and hockey smart but has poor hands at times. Hansen has gotten better but Etem now ive seen him slow to get his hands going to respond to fast hockey plays. Havent seem him hit like Hansen so hope he does that too. But has a lot of speed and ive noticed he knows to go to the right spot a lot of times i have to say im liking some of bennings moves that are paying off and im a big FIRE BENNING guy

Pretty sure he has much better hands than Hansen. Right now he's probably trying to keep his game simple because... unlike Hansen, Etem's job is NOT safe. He's trying to not make mistakes/keeping it simple instead of trying to make plays. Once he's more confident, we should see why he was a 1st round pick. Given he has a history with Willie D, he should be given more leeway than others so this trade could be one of the best Benning has done to date (not that its saying much given the results of all his other trades haven't been all that great).

 

[GetFocht]

He has an excellent set hands, not sure why you would get the he doesn't. He consistently makes good plays

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Why no assist on the burrows goal?

 

[TacitEndorsement]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/ana140526.html

The Ducks and Pittsburgh Penguins were in the running for Kesler, whom the Canucks ultimately held on to, reportedly because ownership prevented then-GM Mike Gillis from making a move.

At the time, TFP had learned that the Ducks had offered defenseman Sami Vatanen, a forward -- believed to be Emerson Etem -- and a first-round draft pick to the Canucks in exchange for Kesler.

That can't be true?

 

[drax0s]

Interesting post about the Etem trade on Reddit today:

So I just happened to be seated next to the Ranger's assistant director of player development
We were seated next to one another on a flight from Boston this morning and confirmed we won the Etem trade. They needed to clear cap space and knew he'd get picked up on waivers. They think he has a lot of upside but just wasn't a good fit for their system. Thought it would be appreciated here. (reddit link)

Looks like Benning done good.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/ana140526.html



That can't be true?

No way that's true.

 

[Cupless44]

Likely we are basically agreeing but you did say chip, chase, hit and grind means possession numbers go down. I don't believe that is the case unless you are yourself constantly on the back foot and are not effective at that type of hockey. If you are unable to force the other team to dump it in, unable to recover your own dump ins and unable to force the opposition to make quick passes and mistakes then yes possession numbers go down. But if you do those things well possession numbers should be fine.

There is chip and chase hockey and there is OMG that guy is just a bad hockey player (at the NHL level). The canucks have a lot of the latter. Prust is one. The way Dorsett has played makes him another...Sbisa, Bartkowski, Weber the list goes on. The most effective chip and chase guy beyond Hansen is probably Virtanen. Good for him but it's a pretty strong indictment of your other grinding type players when a 19 year old, who arguably should not be in the league, is more effective than you.

Etem...jury very much still out. First game or two were fine. I thought the next couple of games he wasn't good (along with most of the team). Last night he made a nice play on the one goal but was underwhelming the rest of the way. We'll have to see what happens but to me he looks bottom 6 potential but not prepared to say things like solid bottom 6 for sure. He's one of these guys that will do something exciting on a shift and people remember that but fail to see his other 15 shifts were meh.

Etem has been fine. He has played decently at both ends of the ice. Has played significantly better than Chris Higgins while bringing more speed.The Vey line is starting to look better. Everyone is talking about Daniel because he scored the GWG last nightbut other than that the Vey line was better than the first line with McCann.

 

[MS]

Why no assist on the burrows goal?

Yeah, he pretty clearly got jobbed there.

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/ana140526.html



That can't be true?

I heard that was the deal at the deadline but Gillis thought he could get more. I also heard about a Theodore deal but I doubt it.

 

[VanJack]

Easily Etem's worst game as a Canuck today....in fact that whole line was cringe-worth...only guy who didn't apparently figure it out was Desjardins...guy seemed to have his head down a lot...skating style means his vision isn't all that great....and still goal-less since the trade....could be more of a bottom-sixer than a scoring forward.