Confirmed Signing with Link: [VAN] F Andrei Kuzmenko signs extension with the Canucks (2 years, $5.5M AAV)

[PAZ]

Major Surgery doesnt mean they are going to get great return for those guys except maybe Horvat and Schenn.

Getting the cap space to open up by removing these guy on the list will allow for management to bring in players they actually want and put their fingerprint into the roster.

Signing Kuzmenko doesnt go against what Rutherford is saying when he says this team needs major surgery.

The core has been identified in my opinion:

Pettersson
Hughes
Demko
Kuzmenko
Miller
OEL

Prospects: Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lekkerimaki, Rathbone, Pettersson, Silovs

Major Surgery the rest of the roster to support this core.

And this line right there is exactly why in 5 years time Vancouver will be in the exact same place. Since the only piece Vancouver will get decent value on is Horvat, they won't have as many assets at their disposal. So they'll resort to free agency, again. And overpay for players they actually want, again.

 

[Paddys Pub]

Today he is 18th in points. Players below him include Stamkos, Matthews, Mackinnon, Dubois, Panarin.... and on and on. Would teams rather have one of those guys instead of Petey, lots of teams would.

He is 17. And just 2 points out of 10th.

 

[UrbanImpact]

And this line right there is exactly why in 5 years time Vancouver will be in the exact same place. Since the only piece Vancouver will get decent value on is Horvat, they won't have as many assets at their disposal. So they'll resort to free agency, again. And overpay for players they actually want, again.

You forget that we are in the Bedard lottery and the faith of the franchise can change in a snap of the finger.

Even if we dont get him this draft is stacked!

I think its much harder to find Cornerstone players than it is to surround those players.

The Canucks have their franchise pieces in Pettersson Hughes Demko.

Its going to be up to the management team to surround them properly into a contending team once all those bad contracts are off the books and they can really put their finger print on this team.

predicting 5 years from now is pointless.

 

[McVespa99]

He is russian and bc is gonna legalize coke so...

Either that or he likes the Vancouver girls I guess...

 

[bossram]

You forget that we are in the Bedard lottery and the faith of the franchise can change in a snap of the finger.

Even if we dont get him this draft is stacked!

I think its much harder to find Cornerstone players than it is to surround those players.

The Canucks have their franchise pieces in Pettersson Hughes Demko.

Its going to be up to the management team to surround them properly into a contending team once all those bad contracts are off the books and they can really put their finger print on this team.

predicting 5 years from now is pointless.

You'd think if this draft was so stacked, management would try adding more draft picks. Y'know, like snagging a 1st for Kuzmenko.

 

[McVespa99]

Lots of teams would have someone better than Petey?
He is 1 point out of top 10 in the league, so no….. not many teams have someone as good or better.
And no, he’s not top 5. Big whoop. There are only 5 of them. Hahaha it’s pretty tough to get there.

Easy Mr sensitive I was just making the point that a player like Petey (??) is not enough for a guy to give up on free agency....

 

[UrbanImpact]

Kuzmenko and fam really fell in love with Vancouver eh, dude loves it here!

Glad to have this sniper on the franchise, his positive attitude is infectious!

 

[PAZ]

You forget that we are in the Bedard lottery and the faith of the franchise can change in a snap of the finger.

Even if we dont get him this draft is stacked!

I think its much harder to find Cornerstone players than it is to surround those players.

The Canucks have their franchise pieces in Pettersson Hughes Demko.

Its going to be up to the management team to surround them properly into a contending team once all those bad contracts are off the books and they can really put their finger print on this team.

predicting 5 years from now is pointless.

They aren't good enough to be franchise pieces on the Canucks. If the Canucks had a deep roster they could be, but the Canucks don't have the assets, prospects, or management for that to happen.

Don't get me wrong they're all elite, but they'd need to be a Makar/McDavid/Draisaitl level talent for the Canucks to actually be a serious threat.

We are already committed to no mans land. Ownership won't allow a rebuild, even with three management eras pushing for one. I mean...I thought this was made excruciatingly obvious when Rutherford gave his little "retool" pep talk, even if every fan and front office staffer knows a rebuild is needed, we're not doing one because our owner is a moron.

Losing Kuzmenko doesn't make us bad enough to see the bottom drop out of this team, and keeping him doesn't put us over the top. That is why he's making 5.5 and not 11.

That's the crux of the issue. Kuzmenko isn't good enough to move the needle either way, so why not get some decent assets in return? It's why I said in a vacuum it's a great deal, but overall it just maintains the mediocracy of the Canucks.

But I guess it's baby steps, at least they aren't hampering themselves long-term by signing him to a 5 year deal.

 

[Koivu11]

Generational hair.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

And this line right there is exactly why in 5 years time Vancouver will be in the exact same place. Since the only piece Vancouver will get decent value on is Horvat, they won't have as many assets at their disposal. So they'll resort to free agency, again. And overpay for players they actually want, again.

Ya it's pretty obvious for a lot of us Nuck fans, and depressing.

You forget that we are in the Bedard lottery and the faith of the franchise can change in a snap of the finger.

Even if we dont get him this draft is stacked!

I think its much harder to find Cornerstone players than it is to surround those players.

The Canucks have their franchise pieces in Pettersson Hughes Demko.

Its going to be up to the management team to surround them properly into a contending team once all those bad contracts are off the books and they can really put their finger print on this team.

predicting 5 years from now is pointless.

The bad contracts for the Canucks go for years and they have no prospects coming. Signing UFAs is expensive and the Canucks have no cap space.

 

[iFan]

Kuz seems like an awesome guy!

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Wasted asset. Vancouver doing Vancouver things.

 

[lawrence]

We lucked out with this guy. Unlikely we will get other free agents wanting to come here.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

You'd think if this draft was so stacked, management would try adding more draft picks. Y'know, like snagging a 1st for Kuzmenko.

It's almost like it's not a video game and other teams know it's a stacked draft and aren't looking to trade a top 15 pick for a guy who was an upcoming ufa and doesn't have a large sample size, has never played a single playoff race (let alone playoffs), and wants to stay in Vancouver.

Just because your head-canon is that we're forgoing an 11th overall pick doesn't mean it connects with reality even one iota.

 

[kevsh]

The Overdrive guys pointed out the strange strategy of putting so much cap space into the wings, flying in the face of building down the middle, on the blue line and in net, as well as just the notion that if it's the players that are the problem (and there's quite a bit of circumstantial evidence to support it), why is Rutherford handing out contracts and not (yet) moving bodies?

 

[bossram]

It's almost like it's not a video game and other teams know it's a stacked draft and aren't looking to trade a top 15 pick for a guy who was an upcoming ufa and doesn't have a large sample size, has never played a single playoff race (let alone playoffs), and wants to stay in Vancouver.

Just because your head-canon is that we're forgoing an 11th overall pick doesn't mean it connects with reality even one iota.

Where did I say it would be a top-15 pick? Please show me. I'll be waiting.

Because I've repeatedly said it would be a first from a playoff team.

 

[Esq]

Not sure why we don’t see more situations of a team trading a player and then signing that player again at the end of the year.

Could easily fetch a 1st

Because the acquiring team sometimes has a really good offer in hand when they make the trade.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Where did I say it would be a top-15 pick? Please show me. I'll be waiting.

Because I've repeatedly said it would be a first from a playoff team.

Which isn't worth trading Kuzmenko for.

He's not old, he's still figuring out the league (Rutherford talked about him still playing more east/west Russian style but gradually figuring out the NHL's pull towards North/South game) and he's almost a point a game.

I'm not trading that for 26th overall because it would be asinine.

And that's before we even get to his importance to Petey, what it would show future international free agents if we ruthlessly deal guys who want to be here after like 4 months, etc etc etc.

I can't wait until he becomes a consistent 70 point scorer and you pretend you always argued for keeping him.

 

[bossram]

Which isn't worth trading Kuzmenko for.

He's not old, he's still figuring out the league (Rutherford talked about him still playing more east/west Russian style but gradually figuring out the NHL's pull towards North/South game) and he's almost a point a game.

I'm not trading that for 26th overall because it would be asinine.

And that's before we even get to his importance to Petey, what it would show future international free agents if we ruthlessly deal guys who want to be here after like 4 months, etc etc etc.

I can't wait until he becomes a consistent 70 point scorer and you pretend you always argued for keeping him.

I do think he'll be a consistent top-six, if not top-line player in VAN. It's just not going to matter at all. Which is why they should sell high and get assets for the future.

You continue to argue things I never said.

Vegas is ruthless. Players still sign there. They care more about joining good organizations.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I do think he'll be a consistent top-six, if not top-line player in VAN. It's just not going to matter at all. Which is why they should sell high and get assets for the future.

You continue to argue things I never said.

Vegas is ruthless. Players still sign there. They care more about joining good organizations.

But you continue to exist in a parallel reality where we are going to get something worth even moving him for.

All of those factors I suggested are obviously forfeit if the 9th overall pick was available. It's not going to be.

So maybe you believe that his quality as a player and all of the factors I named are still only worth the 26th overall pick in which case I vehemently disagree and many others seem to as well.

 

[bossram]

But you continue to exist in a parallel reality where we are going to get something worth even moving him for.

All of those factors I suggested are obviously forfeit if the 9th overall pick was available. It's not going to be.

So maybe you believe that his quality as a player and all of the factors I named are still only worth the 26th overall pick in which case I vehemently disagree and many others seem to as well.

Yes. The parallel reality where doubling down on the bottom-7 roster won't magically produce a contender.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Yes. The parallel reality where doubling down on the bottom-7 roster won't magically produce a contender.

There is nuance, you know.

For example, I'm not advocating we keep Horvat, I'm not advocating we keep Schenn, and I'm advocating we lean into sucking this year and get as high of a pick as we can.

I'm also advocating that it's possible to build around the core that have (and will have acquired by this summer's draft).

You're arguing that we should pull a 2014 Buffalo, I guess? And look how well that tends to work out.

 

[bossram]

There is nuance, you know.

For example, I'm not advocating we keep Horvat, I'm not advocating we keep Schenn, and I'm advocating we lean into sucking this year and get as high of a pick as we can.

I'm also advocating that it's possible to build around the core that have (and will have acquired by this summer's draft).

You're arguing that we should pull a 2014 Buffalo, I guess? And look how well that tends to work out.

You could be right. I just don't think so, given it'll take 2-3 years just to extricate all the roster dreck, and additional years to have accumulated enough of an asset base to meaningfully improve the team. If it's gonna take that long, might as well rebuild. Petey and Quinn will be approaching 30 by then.

 

[Senor Catface]

Guess he's ok with not making the playoffs.

Good number though.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

You could be right. I just don't think so, given it'll take 2-3 years just to extricate all the roster dreck, and additional years to have accumulated enough of an asset base to meaningfully improve the team. If it's gonna take that long, might as well rebuild. Petey and Quinn will be approaching 30 by then.

This is a more constructive response and let me suggest we tone down the rhetoric and show more kindness to each other like this post exemplifies (I'm responsible for this too for sure).

I think part of the problem is that the vibes around the Canucks are terrible, everyone hates the owner, and we are having a season where literally everything is going wrong.

Now, part of the latter is a blessing because it means we can lance the boil and also get a great pick in a great draft. But we're not quite as far away as this season makes it look.

For example, I hope we can move Miller, but let's not forget that in a bad season he's on pace for 80 points or so (while yes, being an atrocious 'leader'), and last year he was a 1st line center who put up 99 points. The truth probably exists somewhere in between. We have some pieces playing well this year (precious few) but we also have some who are really struggling but are good players.

Without reloading this season/off-season we are f***ed, so don't think I'm arguing for a status quo.

But we have an elite #1 center and an elite top pairing D, we have Podkolzin who will be a really useful top 6 driver (I firmly believe), we have Kuzmenko. There are others I won't get into unless you want further examples.

These are the guys you build around. Starting at zero you are praying we find an EP and a Hughes.

The time to rebuild was 2016 or so and we didn't do it. But now we have a core to be built around, and I genuinely believe there's a way to do it.