Confirmed with Link: [VAN/DET] Canucks acquire D Filip Hronek, 4th in ‘23 for NYI 1st (condt’l), 2023 2nd - Pt. 2

[Buresflyingelbow]

Unless you draft them...

If we draft Reinbacher with our first does that make up for it? Rebuilds our defence and he takes 3 years to even enter the league. We still have players that want to win with Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Miller, Kuzmenko etc.

Notice, this is DURING a recession period

Recession? It’s progress every year and a premium position.

 

[credulous]

And they are the easiest to acquire. As UFA RHD you don’t need to pay assets but they effect your Cap like Myers. He would be getting a $7 million dollar contract if he was a UFA due to demand of position and we have another year at $4.4 million and a RFA after that. It’s a classic case of supply and demand.

this is the biggest problem with hronek as an acquisition target: he's not all that much cheaper than damon severson or matt dumba. they get one cheap year and they probably get some minor savings on the extension because of his rfa year remaining but if his production doesn't drop off too badly he's probably getting a very similar contract to severson or dumba

he's better than severson and dumba but they're available for nothing more than money. hronek cost two very good picks

 

[Bitz and Bites]

Blowing up the team and tanking isn’t a real world option now when we have Pettersson and Hughes turning into superstars before our eyes, Demko and Kuzmenko in their primes, Miller being a consistent 90+ point guy, good young supporting pieces like Michkyev and Beauvillier on the wings, and guys like Podkolzin and Hoglander ready to step in.
The time for a trade everyone for picks tear down was years ago and didn’t happen and wont be happening unless Pettersson and Hughes demand to be traded and we’ll be terrible for another decade if that happens.

This has turned out to be a one year re-tool mostly due to Demko’s early struggle and then his injury plus OEL and Myers decent play last year falling off a cliff. Otherwise, we’re likely in a wildcard spot with a lot of beatable teams in our division which will be the case for several more years. The East is a much different story but the West will be pretty much wide open for awhile.
This is actually a pretty good time to make a go of it while the rest of our division isn’t that great.

Because of OEL/Myers being essentially done as NHLers, we need to fix the D now, not in three years when these draft picks might be NHL ready, that is if there are good RHD available with the NYI pick. Reinbacher will be gone for sure and likely most other top Dmen as well as they go early especially in a draft that mostly has forwards projected in the first round.
Giving up second as well hurts but top four RHD are really hard to get and expensive if you can find them. We needed to have been drafting them several years ago but that ship has long sailed.
I think Hronek fits the bill as he’s versatile enough to work with Hughes (even if it’s just on the PP), or be the top guy on the second pair along with a defensive LHD which shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg if we need to bring one in or it might even work with an existing guy like Brisbois or Wolanin.
He’s also a good PKer so that’s huge for us.
We still need to find at least one true shutdown Dmen but those types aren’t really rare and dont command big dollars even as UFA’s.
I really like the acquisition and trading the NYI pick is fine. Losing the second hurts but at least we get the Wings 2023rd 4th back so it’s more of a drop than an outright loss of a pick.

I know this trade is a bit of deja vu from the OEL deal but it’s nothing like that except the first and second picks going out. OEL was the wrong handed player with a redundant skill set who was past his prime and on a serious decline with a crippling contract. Hronek is none of these.

 

[thekernel]

I think I’ve landed on my feelings here.

I think Hronek is a good player. Instantly our second best defender.

I think the cost to acquire him, on the face of things, is probably fair.

Where I am confused - and where I feel this trade really falls down - is the timing and where we are at as a franchise. I think it’s right move…wrong time.

If the trade was Bo Horvat + 2nd for Hronek Raty and a 4th, it would still feel like a rebuilder's move. It's just the optics of finally trading for a first, and then...it's gone as fast as it came....I knew as soon as I saw the trade it would be one of the most triggering trades of all time for this fanbase.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

this is the biggest problem with hronek as an acquisition target: he's not all that much cheaper than damon severson or matt dumba. they get one cheap year and they probably get some minor savings on the extension because of his rfa year remaining but if his production doesn't drop off too badly he's probably getting a very similar contract to severson or dumba

he's better than severson and dumba but they're available for nothing more than money. hronek cost two very good picks

He’s 3-4 years younger and improving year by year. Severson was never really good and Dumba was regressing by now. They are not comparable’s but more less what you have to overpay for as UFA’s

 

[lawrence]

I think I’ve landed on my feelings here.

I think Hronek is a good player. Instantly our second best defender.

I think the cost to acquire him, on the face of things, is probably fair.

Where I am confused - and where I feel this trade really falls down - is the timing and where we are at as a franchise. I think it’s right move…wrong time.

I’m ok with we made this move last year when we had a chance at making the playoffs.

 

[Peter Griffin]

My issue with this trade is largely based around Hronek’s contract status. We get 1 good year at $4.4M and then will be forced to pay fair market value. For a team that is so messed up capwise, I don’t see how this is a sensible move. This is the sort of trade that a team that has been trending up, has a good prospect pool, and well managed salary cap situation, should make.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

If we draft Reinbacher with our first does that make up for it? Rebuilds our defence and he takes 3 years to even enter the league. We still have players that want to win with Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Miller, Kuzmenko etc.

What if Reinbacher walks into the NHL in two years, drafted at or after the Canucks 2nd 1st round pick, and is better defensively than Hronek?

Imagine that occuring + the Canucks still being outside the playoffs and that is where I am at.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

How can anyone not see the value here in the grand scheme of things?

Beau + Hronek + Raty + 4th

Horvat 25% retained and $8.5x8 and a 2nd.

We basically signed Kuzmenko and Hronek while getting younger for Bo’s $8.5

Beauvillier can be flipped and is playing lights out, also makes Boeser and Garland more expendable.

Even Beauvillier + Hronek at $8.55 is equal to Horvat at $8.5 as a second line Center except his career year this year.

Top 6 winger and #3 Dman for a 2nd line Center is a coupe by itself, we also got Raty.

What if Reinbacher walks into the NHL in two years, drafted at or after the Canucks 2nd 1st round pick, and is better defensively than Hronek?

Imagine that occuring + the Canucks still being outside the playoffs and that is where I am at.

Then you flip Hronek for a similar return as what we paid. He’s going to pad his stats here no doubt.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I like Hronek, and more so after seeing the YT videos. He's going to have to be a #2 quality guy to justify the value. We can only hope. That Isles 1st is a high-value pick that should garner an asset of equal value, plus the high 2nd just seems like an over-the-top, almost desperate ante. My guess is that Allvin got sucked into a bidding war with some of the other 'middling' clubs that were willing to offer a 1st, and Yzerman was indicating that Hronek was going to be dealt at the TDL. Great asset management for them.

I think the timing of this deal at the TDL stinks, with where we are in the standings, we should never trade picks unless it's at the draft where they'd have the most value. I get that Pettersson, Hughes and Demko need talent to play with. Maybe Hronek is now a top pairing D. And the TDL isnt' over yet.

Hard to believe that Allvin has traded a 1st, two 2nds a 3rd (and late picks) in his short time here - for what, really. Lot of pressure on Hronek here, perhaps unfairly.

 

[Bubbles]

"Draft picks this year? What do they mean?" - Frankie Corrado

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Blowing up the team and tanking isn’t a real world option now when we have Pettersson and Hughes turning into superstars before our eyes, Demko and Kuzmenko in their primes, Miller being a consistent 90+ point guy, good young supporting pieces like Michkyev and Beauvillier on the wings, and guys like Podkolzin and Hoglander ready to step in.
The time for a trade everyone for picks tear down was years ago and didn’t happen and wont be happening unless Pettersson and Hughes demand to be traded and we’ll be terrible for another decade if that happens.

This has turned out to be a one year re-tool mostly due to Demko’s early struggle and then his injury plus OEL and Myers decent play last year falling off a cliff. Otherwise, we’re likely in a wildcard spot with a lot of beatable teams in our division which will be the case for several more years. The East is a much different story but the West will be pretty much wide open for awhile.
This is actually a pretty good time to make a go of it while the rest of our division isn’t that great.

Because of OEL/Myers being essentially done as NHLers, we need to fix the D now, not in three years when these draft picks might be NHL ready, that is if there are good RHD available with the NYI pick. Reinbacher will be gone for sure and likely most other top Dmen as well as they go early especially in a draft that mostly has forwards projected in the first round.
Giving up second as well hurts but top four RHD are really hard to get and expensive if you can find them. We needed to have been drafting them several years ago but that ship has long sailed.
I think Hronek fits the bill as he’s versatile enough to work with Hughes (even if it’s just on the PP), or be the top guy on the second pair along with a defensive LHD which shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg if we need to bring one in or it might even work with an existing guy like Brisbois or Wolanin.
He’s also a good PKer so that’s huge for us.
We still need to find at least one true shutdown Dmen but those types aren’t really rare and dont command big dollars even as UFA’s.
I really like the acquisition and trading the NYI pick is fine. Losing the second hurts but at least we get the Wings 2023rd 4th back so it’s more of a drop than an outright loss of a pick.

I know this trade is a bit of deja vu from the OEL deal but it’s nothing like that except the first and second picks going out. OEL was the wrong handed player with a redundant skill set who was past his prime and on a serious decline with a crippling contract. Hronek is none of these.

And this is why the Canucks will always fail, they have this mindset.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Detroit are a better team than the Canucks, yet they still are smart enough to realize they are not close to contending so jumped at the chance to turn a 2nd pairing dman into 1st and 2nd picks ina great draft, BIG PICTURE.

Are they better than the Canucks..?..I'm not convinced (even though they're ahead in the standings) ..I'll still take our core group over theirs.

You're underestimating Hronek..Probably the second best D man the Wings have drafted in decades..The Wings are rebuilding so they can wait 3-5 years for this years futures to become solid players (D men usually take awhile unless they are Makar/Hughes quality)...We are retooling. its a different scenario...We desperately need a top 4 RHD who plays 20 mins a night, right now.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

We sold high on what if. That 20th overall pick for Miller sure looks good now. Maybe we take the faller in the draft like Schroeder, Shinkaruk, Lekkerimaki etc. 18 year old kids you can’t project but a 25 year old top 4 Dman is easy to identify. The guy is a RHD and gets better every year.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Don't know if Hronek is the guy, but if he is, and we hit a Barzal/Conner with our own 1st... that's like a perfect 1st round outcome.

Draft picks aren't necessarily more future or longer term players. Miller, or even Kuzmenko, acquired at 26, are likely to play more seasons as a Canuck, than Horvat, Hughes or Boeser, all 1st round, core drafted players..

The Isles pick screamed Dman, one way or another, so unless someone has issues with Hronek, or eyes set on a certain Dman in the draft... this "wrong time" spiel, is bs.

 

[Bures Elbow]

We got completely fleeced. Wrong trade at the wrong time with the wrong assets.

He's not the competent defensive top 4 d-man we so desperately need. He's a decent puck moving defender who relies on a steady partner, and he wont be getting top powerplay minutes here.

Unless he grows into a really solid two way defender that can play beside Hughes or anchor the second pairing, this was a horrendous move.

 

[Hoglander]

My issue with this trade is largely based around Hronek’s contract status. We get 1 good year at $4.4M and then will be forced to pay fair market value. For a team that is so messed up capwise, I don’t see how this is a sensible move. This is the sort of trade that a team that has been trending up, has a good prospect pool, and well managed salary cap situation, should make.

Nothing wrong with paying good players, as long as they are actually good. The issue is overpaying.

As far as the next contract, he won't be getting inflated numbers next year, because he'll be behind Hughes when it comes to PP1 duties. If he still puts up points, then that means he has fit in nicely and will be worth the raise, no?

minus -87 doesn't scream second best defender- even on this team.

Career +/- isn't good, but the team was also crap during that time. They are okish this year, and he is 2nd best on the team at +8. The other top scorers are -'s, so he's doing something right. Hopefully we can chalk it up to developing

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

There are definitely legitimate criticisms of this trade and I will say again, I'm familiar with Hronek but I have never spent a game focusing on him, so I hold my judgment somewhat lightly.

I wish that we had at least baked in a condition wherein we get to choose which 2024 pick we give up (if the Islanders' pick gets moved forward).

But we have some really really good pieces. Hughes is already the best D we have ever had. Petey, by the end of his career, will either pass Henrik or be 2nd to him. Demko, if he continues as he was prior to this year, is probably top 3 at G.

We have lot's of offensive depth.

If you believe that all of this is completely undermined by how pathetic we are on RD (our weakest position and the hardest one to upgrade on), then you have to decide to either make a move like this or 86 everyone and try to be horrendous for a decade.

We also need to see what else is done. I will be really disappointed if we don't have more than 1 pick in the top 70 this draft. I expect we acquire another 1st or two 2nds.

Another fear is that Hronek and Demko takes us out of contention for a top 5 and into a 9th or 10th pick.

I see people saying Hronek won't be getting points here because of Hughes on the PP.

Hronek will be on the 2nd PP, but more importantly, he's 27th amongst D this year in even strength assists, so there's obviously more there than just a pp specialist.

Let's wait and see the whole picture unfold before we freak out too much.

 

[EXTRAS]

The fact is hronek excels on the powerplay and is avg elsewhere. The canucks have Hughes on their top pp unit and hronek isn't better than Hughes. So not only did vancouver overpay but they overpaid for a guy who won't be on the #1pp unit.

And really...if hronek causes the canucks to end up 1 or 2 spots higher in the standings it gives vancouver a smaller percentage to land bedard. So if you were gonna overpay for a redundant skillset couldn't you have least Waited for the off season...

 

[Peter Griffin]

How can anyone not see the value here in the grand scheme of things?

Beau + Hronek + Raty + 4th

Horvat 25% retained and $8.5x8 and a 2nd.

We basically signed Kuzmenko and Hronek while getting younger for Bo’s $8.5

Beauvillier can be flipped and is playing lights out, also makes Boeser and Garland more expendable.

Even Beauvillier + Hronek at $8.55 is equal to Horvat at $8.5 as a second line Center except his career year this year.

Hronek is only at $4.4M for one more year.

As far as the next contract, he won't be getting inflated numbers next year, because he'll be behind Hughes when it comes to PP1 duties. If he still puts up points, then that means he has fit in nicely and will be worth the raise, no?

He could post 40 points and be in line for $7M+. Can this team really afford another $7M defenseman that isn’t strong defensively?

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

We sold high on what if. That 20th overall pick for Miller sure looks good now. Maybe we take the faller in the draft like Schroeder, Shinkaruk, Lekkerimaki etc. 18 year old kids you can’t project but a 25 year old top 4 Dman is easy to identify. The guy is a RHD and gets better every year.

For 2-5 years at a steep cap hit then falls off.

Great if you think you are a contender in that time.

 

[CherryToke]

Where I am confused - and where I feel this trade really falls down - is the timing and where we are at as a franchise. I think it’s right move…wrong time.

Timing is everything in sports!

 

[Hoglander]

Hronek is only at $4.4M for one more year.

He could post 40 points and be in line for $7M+. Can this team really afford another $7M defenseman that isn’t strong defensively?

If he's worth 7mil, then that's a good thing, as it means he's also solid enough defensively. if he's a liability, he won't sniff 7mil.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Then you flip Hronek for a similar return as what we paid. He’s going to pad his stats here no doubt.

Won't happen as he will be on his new $7 mil+ contract and near impossible to trade.

Also I think we've seen that once in the last 10 years from the Canucks (Horvat) and they then traded that pick to do this all over again.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

For 2-5 years at a steep cap hit then falls off.

Great if you think you are a contender in that time.

He was 24 three months ago, where do you find that available for trade at any time as a RHD? I’ve stated this in other places but Romanov just went for 13th overall at the draft last year, he’s not even a RHD.

This draft is not heavy in what we need and we still might end up with Reinbacher with our pick, the asset we just got is 19th overall in Dmen scoring and 10th among all RHD. These guys are not available ever and even if you pick the best Dman in the draft (Juolevi) it’s not a guarantee.

Hronek is only at $4.4M for one more year.

He could post 40 points and be in line for $7M+. Can this team really afford another $7M defenseman that isn’t strong defensively?

He’s at 38 in 60 games already? He’s 50+ points